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Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal Discussion around the VW Dieselgate Emissions scandal. Details and news updates can be viewed here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=448336 This forum is a work in progress depending on requirements, usage, etc.

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Old February 15th, 2018, 18:12   #1
fxdrider
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For cars that receive the "fix", they should be in compliance with emissions regulations now. I would therefore assume that they should be less likely to have fouled diesel particulate filters and exhaust flaps and all that other good stuff our Cheat-DI's would throw codes for. Perhaps remain in good repair longer. Am I off-base in my thinking on this?
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Old February 15th, 2018, 18:19   #2
Diesl
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Yes...
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Old February 15th, 2018, 20:32   #3
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Doubt the higher Nox levels had much impact on the DPF. My guess is the more frequent re-gen's that people are reporting post fix is an indication that DPF life may actually be worse. The pre fix tdi's were the best of both worlds (power) (economy)....unfortunately not so good for the actual world according to the EPA.
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Old February 15th, 2018, 23:10   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxdrider View Post
they should be in compliance with emissions regulations now
I think it would be more accurate to say they should be in compliance with the emissions limits agreed on in the consent decree, which are not necessarily the same emissions levels to which the cars were originally certified.

Appendix B, Section 3.1.2

The updated emissions limits are also in the Emissions Modification Disclosure supplements that discuss the fix and the extended warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsmart View Post
My guess is the more frequent re-gen's that people are reporting post fix is an indication that DPF life may actually be worse.
If the occurrence of re-gens does increase post fix, I would agree that this will probably have a negative affect on the life of the DPF. This is probably also why the Extended Emissions Warranty is for at least the "Full Useful Life" of the car (i.e. 11 years or 162k miles for GEN 3, 10 years and 6 months or 126k miles for GEN 1 w/ manual transmission, 10 years or 120k miles for GEN 1 w/ auto - funny they get less than the manual).

Appendix B (above) provides the following definition: “Full Useful Life” or “FUL” means the regulatory period in years or miles for which vehicles must meet emission standards. Full Useful Life is 10 years or 120,000 miles, whichever occurs first, for Model Year 2009-2014 2.0 Liter Subject Vehicles and 15 years or 150,000 miles, whichever occurs first, for Model Year 2015 2.0 Liter Subject Vehicles.
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Old February 16th, 2018, 00:22   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010TDI View Post
I think it would be more accurate to say they should be in compliance with the emissions limits agreed on in the consent decree, which are not necessarily the same emissions levels to which the cars were originally certified.

Appendix B, Section 3.1.2

The updated emissions limits are also in the Emissions Modification Disclosure supplements that discuss the fix and the extended warranty.



If the occurrence of re-gens does increase post fix, I would agree that this will probably have a negative affect on the life of the DPF. This is probably also why the Extended Emissions Warranty is for at least the "Full Useful Life" of the car (i.e. 11 years or 162k miles for GEN 3, 10 years and 6 months or 126k miles for GEN 1 w/ manual transmission, 10 years or 120k miles for GEN 1 w/ auto - funny they get less than the manual).

Appendix B (above) provides the following definition: “Full Useful Life” or “FUL” means the regulatory period in years or miles for which vehicles must meet emission standards. Full Useful Life is 10 years or 120,000 miles, whichever occurs first, for Model Year 2009-2014 2.0 Liter Subject Vehicles and 15 years or 150,000 miles, whichever occurs first, for Model Year 2015 2.0 Liter Subject Vehicles.
I may be reading it wrong but my understanding is that the warranty is the greater of 10 years or 120,000 miles from the first in service date (original purchase) for Gen 1/2. 10 years or 150,000 miles from the first in service date (original purchase) for Gen 3. 4 years or 48,000 miles from the installed fix date for cars that fall outside of the first 2 categories.

Basically 4 years or 48,000 is what most people will end up being covered one way or another if you do the math.
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Old February 16th, 2018, 04:03   #6
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It'll be the 48,000 for me, and I'll burn through it in about a year and a half. That's fine. Meanwhile, I'm tickled to have my car back!
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Old February 16th, 2018, 04:50   #7
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the new exhaust flap should be of the latest design, which should help.

it would help if you would use VCDS to log the actual cycles of a fixed car.

I do not think the DPF management has changed much, but the NOX cat cycles probably have.

the new design Low pressure EGR filter is different. would be interesting to run basic settings 78 to see how/if this changed.
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Old February 16th, 2018, 07:45   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxdrider View Post
For cars that receive the "fix", they should be in compliance with emissions regulations now. I would therefore assume that they should be less likely to have fouled diesel particulate filters and exhaust flaps and all that other good stuff our Cheat-DI's would throw codes for. Perhaps remain in good repair longer. Am I off-base in my thinking on this?
"Cleaner" is subjective. They will not pass the NOx limits still. However, they will be "closer". That said, in order for NOx to be reduced, all the other pollutants (which were in the single digit percentiles of allowable limits before... in other words, CRAZY CLEAN) will be higher. So the CO, CO2, HC, and all the other PM will be higher. Which means the car will use a tad more fuel, will have more DPF regen cycles, and to put it simply, be closer to a gasoline fueled car. Which, despite worse fuel economy (in some cases, A LOT worse), they will be "cleaner" in the eyes of the EPA.

Don't fret, you can still buy a new 15 MPG F150. Those are all still "clean".
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Old February 16th, 2018, 07:57   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsmart View Post
I may be reading it wrong but my understanding is that the warranty is the greater of 10 years or 120,000 miles from the first in service date (original purchase) for Gen 1/2. 10 years or 150,000 miles from the first in service date (original purchase) for Gen 3. 4 years or 48,000 miles from the installed fix date for cars that fall outside of the first 2 categories.

Basically 4 years or 48,000 is what most people will end up being covered one way or another if you do the math.
Summarizing and correcting one of your comments:
2009-2014 - 10yr/120,000 miles or 4yr/48,000 after fix.
2015 - 11yr/162,000 miles or 5yr/60,000 miles after fix.
Whichever mileage/time option is greater.
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Old February 16th, 2018, 08:32   #10
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A quick correction:

for my Gen 1, 2012 Golf MT, it is 4.5/54,000 after fix or 10.5yr/126,000 from date of service, which ever is greater. I just checked my VW brochure.
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Old February 16th, 2018, 09:31   #11
Diesl
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The VW document for my Gen1 DSG car states

Warranty Period
The warranty period for the “Extended Emissions Warranty” limited
warranty extension shall be the greater of:
 10 years or 120,000 miles, whichever occurs first from
the vehicle’s original in-service date; OR
 4 years or 48,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the
date and mileage of the emissions modification.”

So, the warranty is the longer of (shorter of 120k miles or 10 years since purchase) or (shorter of 48k miles or 4 years since fix).

For me it will probably work out to 131k miles, 8 years from purchase, 3 years and 48k miles after fix (since I drove 83k miles in 5 years before the fix). It would have been nice to get the full ten years.

The documents can be downloaded at this link: https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en/2-0-models/
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Last edited by Diesl; February 16th, 2018 at 09:35.
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Old February 16th, 2018, 12:50   #12
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Odd that manual transmissions get 6 more months and 6,000 more miles.
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