Today is the day for 3.0's

Mythdoc said:

They rejected my title but accepted my registration, but accepted others' titles. Try title?

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No title, the car's financed.

I just entered my first 2012 Touareg Executive with 87k, vehicle value is only listed as $27,900 plus $5,333, total of $33,233. Seems really low considering the VW Payment range table is showing 2012 VW Touareg Utility 4D TDI Executive $45,155 ‐ $49,500.
Any thoughts?

lvrpl said:

Does anyone know how the "Participation Payment" works? Anyone that's registered on the portal and submitted docs - has there been any language about claiming the Participation Payment?

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My understanding is that this is paid immediately when the claim is approved--you get half now, and the other half when the fix is done. If a fix isn't approved, the participation payment is deducted from the buyback or whatever else you get.

Just entered my second car, 2012 Touareg Sport w/27k, vehicle amount is $36,300 plus $9721 restitution, $46,021 total.

I dont understand why my other Touaregs base amount is almost $10k less than this one.

I assume these numbers are not including tax ?

DanB36 said:

No title, the car's financed.

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You should still have a title, it will just show a lien.

Michael A said:

I just entered my first 2012 Touareg Executive with 87k, vehicle value is only listed as $27,900 plus $5,333, total of $33,233. Seems really low considering the VW Payment range table is showing 2012 VW Touareg Utility 4D TDI Executive $45,155 ‐ $49,500.
Any thoughts?

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Double check how the site is describing this car. Some have found that due to a glitch their Luxes and Execs were being listed as Sports. When this is cleared up you would see a big bump in value.

Also, was there a former owner of this vehicle? That would cut your restitution payment in half.

DrgRnnr said:

Entered 12 claims last night. Appears I ended up 50/50 on previous owner claims. I'm curious from other bulk buyers what their ratio was.

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I have less than 12, but also 50/50

VWMark said:

You should still have a title, it will just show a lien.

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No, in GA the bank holds the title until the car is paid off.

Just contacted them on chat; they say (no doubt from the pop-up on the site that I didn't see):

Proof of Ownership. May include: Title, Prior Title, Title Acquisition, Bill of Sale, Odometer Disclosure Statement, Registration Document, Insurance Document

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The representative also said my registration was "rejected in error I do apologize".

When asked if the insurance card I uploaded should be accepted, she said "I'm not a document validator, but it's on the list."

I can upload all the purchase papers (bill of sale, odometer disclosure, etc.), as I scanned them all when I bought the car, but that seems a bit excessive.

DanB36 said:

No, in GA the bank holds the title until the car is paid off.

California is the same, bank holds title till paid off.

Just contacted them on chat; they say (no doubt from the pop-up on the site that I didn't see):
The representative also said my registration was "rejected in error I do apologize".

When asked if the insurance card I uploaded should be accepted, she said "I'm not a document validator, but it's on the list."

I can upload all the purchase papers (bill of sale, odometer disclosure, etc.), as I scanned them all when I bought the car, but that seems a bit excessive.

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California is the same, bank holds title till paid off.

Mythdoc said:

Double check how the site is describing this car. Some have found that due to a glitch their Luxes and Execs were being listed as Sports. When this is cleared up you would see a big bump in value.
Also, was there a former owner of this vehicle? That would cut your restitution payment in half.

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Actually I dont think there was any detailed description for my Executive where the sport said specifically "SPORT" and I cant seem to get back to to review the VIN details on the portal.

The $27,900 base figure seems very low, and the restitution of $5,333 is more than likely half / 50%.

I assume these figures are not including the tax payments?

Where were you hearing about other with the VIN glitch ?

Michael A said:

Actually I dont think there was any detailed description for my Executive where the sport said specifically "SPORT" and I cant seem to get back to to review the VIN details on the portal.

The $27,900 base figure seems very low, and the restitution of $5,333 is more than likely half / 50%.

I assume these figures are not including the tax payments?

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Would mileage have anything to do w it? Mileage on other one is much higher?

Motodude said:

Would mileage have anything to do w it? Mileage on other one is much higher?

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I wouldnt think the mileage between the two would account for almost $10k, the Sport has 27k and the Executive has 87k. I am 99% sure there is a pretty significant NADA value increase of the Exec compared to the Sport considering all other things equal.

I just looked at the Nov 2015 NADA value guide and there is about $6k NADA value difference between the two vehicles.

Where have you heard of others with Lux and Exec's having issues?

Michael A said:

I wouldnt think the mileage between the two would account for almost $10k, the Sport has 27k and the Executive has 87k. I am 99% sure there is a pretty significant NADA value increase of the Exec compared to the Sport considering all other things equal.

I just looked at the Nov 2015 NADA value guide and there is about $6k NADA value difference between the two vehicles.

Where have you heard of others with Lux and Exec's having issues?

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I had issues with this. An Exec showed up with a value of $27,900, and a Sport Nav showed up with $27,900 as well.

Another Sport showed up as $27,900, so if you're seeing that number, it's for a sport without nav.

Mythdoc said:

When I read stuff like this I know we've crossed over into alternate reality. I know I am not the only one who wants the fix to succeed. If you read the transcript from Breyer's court, the FTC representative seems to indicate that the fix will in high likelihood be accepted. Two of the three subclasses have already been submitted by VW to EPA and CARB.
If you bought gen 1's to flip, you are fine. If you bought gen 2's, you took a chance and might come out ok, but don't assume your arbitrager's perspective applies to us all.

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I don't think it's "alternate reality", just people who would like to make money.

I have about $500k worth of Gen 2 vehicles that will be worth nearly $1 million if they don't find a fix. You bet your ass I'm praying that they don't find a fix or the fix doesn't work - I could very nearly retire with that amount of cash.

Mythdoc said:

When I read stuff like this I know we've crossed over into alternate reality. I know I am not the only one who wants the fix to succeed. If you read the transcript from Breyer's court, the FTC representative seems to indicate that the fix will in high likelihood be accepted. Two of the three subclasses have already been submitted by VW to EPA and CARB.
If you bought gen 1's to flip, you are fine. If you bought gen 2's, you took a chance and might come out ok, but don't assume your arbitrager's perspective applies to us all.

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I don't think it's "alternate reality", just people who would like to make money.

I have about $500k worth of cars that will be worth nearly $1 million if they don't find a fix. You bet your ass I'm praying that they don't find a fix or the fix doesn't work.

Fourplay said:

I had issues with this. An Exec showed up with a value of $27,900, and a Sport Nav showed up with $27,900 as well.
Another Sport showed up as $27,900, so if you're seeing that number, it's for a sport without nav.

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I just called the claims number and got through to them in under 5 minutes.

They where able to verify 100% that my Executive is listed as a Sport @ $27,900 and they will b be correcting this asap.

Do you have any idea what the $27,900 figure once corrected will be?

Also does anyone know if these figures include tax?

I have considering moving on to 2013-2015 Cayenne's, I suppose the worse thing is I get $10k in restitution money and drive a Porsche.

Michael A said:

I wouldnt think the mileage between the two would account for almost $10k, the Sport has 27k and the Executive has 87k. I am 99% sure there is a pretty significant NADA value increase of the Exec compared to the Sport considering all other things equal.

I just looked at the Nov 2015 NADA value guide and there is about $6k NADA value difference between the two vehicles.

Where have you heard of others with Lux and Exec's having issues?

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Trust me, I didn't make it up:
Club Touareg :

http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f89/vw-tdi-epa-recall-2-0l-and-3-0l-216585-108.html#post1792473

And the following posts.

Fourplay said:

I don't think it's "alternate reality", just people who would like to make money.

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The operative word was "all" of us do.

This is what my son calls "main character syndrome." Here we are on a diesel car site, founded for lovers and drivers of diesel cars, and where the expectation would normally be that folks here would want the cars to perform well, instead, due to what I think I am very accurately calling an "alternate reality" situation, many are rooting for the opposite, so they can cash in cars they have no attachment to for a payday.

Yes, it's weird. But no worries, you are the main character in this drama, and what you want for yourself, we all must therefore want for ourselves.

Fourplay said:

I have about $500k worth of Gen 2 vehicles that will be worth nearly $1 million if they don't find a fix. You bet your ass I'm praying that they don't find a fix or the fix doesn't work - I could very nearly retire with that amount of cash.

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Do you mind me asking: what are you going to do with them if there is a fix? Their market value is going to plummet isn't it? you'll make some fix/restitution money but presumably lose all that in resale.

VWMark said:

You should still have a title, it will just show a lien.

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Not in AZ, sold back 2 2.0's without titles. The reg worked for me, "Documents Complete"!

Mythdoc said:

The operative word was "all" of us do.

This is what my son calls "main character syndrome." Here we are on a diesel car site, founded for lovers and drivers of diesel cars, and where the expectation would normally be that folks here would want the cars to perform well, instead, due to what I think I am very accurately calling an "alternate reality" situation, many are rooting for the opposite, so they can cash in cars they have no attachment to for a payday.

Yes, it's weird. But no worries, you are the main character in this drama, and what you want for yourself, we all must therefore want for ourselves.

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I actually owned several of these cars prior to the scandal. They're great cars. My own financial interests aside, I can't see why anyone would root for the currently proposed fixes to work. Here's why:

1. After the fix, the Gen 2 cars are never going to perform like they do currently. They will absolutely have reduced power, increased fuel consumption, and increased DEF consumption. How dramatic these changes will be still remains to be seen, but they are inevitable.

2. Whether or not an approved fix is found in the next 6 months, all of the cars have warranties (bridge and then extended).

3. If an approved fix is not found within 6 months, the amount of restitution that you will receive greatly increases (even if you elect to keep the car vs. a buyback).

Basically, hoping that they find a timely fix means that you will still get a car that is worse than it was before, but you won't be compensated as well for it. Who would hope for that?

opsx said:

Do you mind me asking: what are you going to do with them if there is a fix? Their market value is going to plummet isn't it? you'll make some fix/restitution money but presumably lose all that in resale.

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I have a dealer license and will sell them as pre-owned vehicles with extended warranties. Most of the vehicles I've purchased were between $25-35k, so the repair + Bosch payment is roughly 1/3 to 1/4 of the vehicle value. It's unlikely that the values will drop sharply enough to erase all of that profit, especially considering the extended warranty on the Gen 2 cars.

Mythdoc said:

The operative word was "all" of us do.

This is what my son calls "main character syndrome." Here we are on a diesel car site, founded for lovers and drivers of diesel cars, and where the expectation would normally be that folks here would want the cars to perform well, instead, due to what I think I am very accurately calling an "alternate reality" situation, many are rooting for the opposite, so they can cash in cars they have no attachment to for a payday.

Yes, it's weird. But no worries, you are the main character in this drama, and what you want for yourself, we all must therefore want for ourselves.

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Actually I am the original poster, others are just agreeing. Whats weird is anyone would not want the buyback option and getting that money. The car w a fix is going to have a crap resell value and perform worse w more work(adding more adblue). Who in their right mind would prefer that???

And the 13-14's only have 5 more months for a timely fix. Their date is oct 23rd if I am not mistaken.

Fourplay said:

I have a dealer license and will sell them as pre-owned vehicles with extended warranties. Most of the vehicles I've purchased were between $25-35k, so the repair + Bosch payment is roughly 1/3 to 1/4 of the vehicle value. It's unlikely that the values will drop sharply enough to erase all of that profit, especially considering the extended warranty on the Gen 2 cars.

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Well, I'm rooting for you. There are plenty of Gen 2s popping up out there but I'm too risk adverse to get involved in that!

Would it be possible to clone the ecu with a tune that can erase the modifications to return to stock or even upgrade performance?

A swap of the ecu for scheduled servicing at the dealership could keep an owner and dealership happy.

The 335d enthusiasts are doing that regularily.

Motodude said:

And the 13-14's only have 5 more months for a timely fix. Their date is oct 23rd if I am not mistaken.

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I wonder what the odds on buyback of 13-14's ?

opsx said:

Well, I'm rooting for you. There are plenty of Gen 2s popping up out there but I'm too risk adverse to get involved in that!

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Thanks, it definitely is a risk, but a pretty controlled one. From my calculations before I started buying them, it'll either be a 95% ROI or 10-15% ROI. Neither of which is terrible.

DanB36 said:

My understanding is that this is paid immediately when the claim is approved--you get half now, and the other half when the fix is done. If a fix isn't approved, the participation payment is deducted from the buyback or whatever else you get.

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I see. But has anyone actually gotten any details about how specifically that Participation Payment for Gen 2 vehicles is paid?

Basically, I'm just trying to make sure that if I buy that 2014 Q7 this weekend that I can't lose out on that half of the restitution due to the Participation Payment (again, I already verified in the portal that there wasn't a previous owner claim made). I would think VW wouldn't give anyone the Participation Payment without them physically bringing the car in to prove they still own it but the court docs seem to say nothing on that matter.

I guess my logic is that, if no one has even had an opportunity to elect for the Performance Payment yet, I'm probably pretty safe if I buy a car this weekend and immediately file a claim.

Michael A said:

I wonder what the odds on buyback of 13-14's ?

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I would say those are the best bet, the fix date is 1-2 months earlier then the others. I dont know if they made any changes between those and the cars/or 15/16 q7/5 and touregs that would make them a tougher fix.

Motodude said:

I would say those are the best bet, the fix date is 1-2 months earlier then the others. I dont know if they made any changes between those and the cars/or 15/16 q7/5 and touregs that would make them a tougher fix.

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The other plus is that the 13s/14s generally have better returns. I don't own a single 15/16 because they all are priced too high to deliver reasonable returns.

Mythdoc said:

When I read stuff like this I know we've crossed over into alternate reality. I know I am not the only one who wants the fix to succeed. If you read the transcript from Breyer's court, the FTC representative seems to indicate that the fix will in high likelihood be accepted. Two of the three subclasses have already been submitted by VW to EPA and CARB.

If you bought gen 1's to flip, you are fine. If you bought gen 2's, you took a chance and might come out ok, but don't assume your arbitrager's perspective applies to us all.

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Do we know which 2 of the 3 subclasses have been submitted? If the 13-14's havent been yet I would double down that these cars will not get a timely fix.