TDI Used Oil Lab Analyses Results & Discussions

The increase in viscosity is due to evaporation and oxidation of the base oil, as a result of the significantly longer change interval. The soot level of 0.2% wouldn't by itself cause any significant thickening. (I thought you dumped in an additive because the Mg/Ca/P/Zn levels look off for this particular oil.)

Given the age and number of miles on the vehicle, some of the rubber hoses may be getting brittle and some of the hose ends may have stretched out. This can allow unfiltered air into the system.

Since you modded the engine with the new nozzles and increased power & torque, it is probably normal to see a small change in the wear pattern. I'd sample after 10k the next time around and see how it looks.

Thanks for the help TS!!

Trying Imgur for the first time because I don't want to pay to reup my flickr pro account.. so apologies if the html is busted. 2000 Jetta, approx 330k miles (only 312 on the clock because the speedo broke as the old automatic was dying), ~12k on M1TDT This was the second change after replacing the valve cover.. so it's possible some of the silicon came from having the engine opened up. This is also the second change after a VNT17B, DLC1019s, and a Kerma Tune.. and frankly the car is driven pretty hard. The lab "forgot" to do TBN (I had to email people after not getting results for 2 months in the first place) so next test will have that. Please let me know what you guys think. Edit: resized image

Bloc,

The levels of Cu and Pb are very low, so we can conclude the TBN is fine. No issues with anything I see here. Slightly elevated silicon(e) is simply chemical leaching from the new valve cover gasket. A typical, Mobil 1/TDT analysis....

TS

Many thanks TS

My latest sample, just wanted to check where I'm at after roughly 100k miles on Mobil1 TDT. What do you think?

Stock car/engine... 2006 BRM

Nice. What was the oil analyzed at 66k miles?

Kreisel,

Results look very good, as expected. The API/CJ-4 oils work very well in the PD engines.

Oil used for the 66k analysis looks to be a 5w-40, VW 502.00/505.01 formulation, due to the additive chemistry. Possibly the Castrol product sold by VW dealers.

TS

Henrick said:

Nice. What was the oil analyzed at 66k miles?

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edit: I looked back, and it looks like I was using Valvoline 5w-40 for that change at 66k miles, and not Mobil 1. I switched to Mobil 1 after that change I believe.

The oil change previous of that around 55k miles was with the Castrol product. I bought the car around 49k miles.

Thanks for the info!

Here I am at 85k.
Unfortunately, I was teaching my boys how to do an oil change and I didn't follow up behind them when they replaced the drain plug back into the pan. 2 days later, my MIL lights up with a low oil pressure warning. I pull over and watch as all of my oil pours out over the skid plate and onto the ground. No apparent damage, but we will see what the next sample shows.

Man that TBN is gone gone gone in 10K miles...

Bob_Fout said:

Man that TBN is gone gone gone in 10K miles...

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I'm in a 09 TDI as well with the VW recommended Castrol and planning on going to the Mobile ESP1 for the next 10k. Do you happen to know the virgin Castrol TBN? It'll be my first oil change since buying the car but loved the Mobile Delvac in my 06 TDI and know I can't use it in the 09 so time to see how the ESP 1 5/40 does.

Thanks

Mrrogers1 said:

I'm in a 09 TDI as well with the VW recommended Castrol and planning on going to the Mobile ESP1 for the next 10k. Do you happen to know the virgin Castrol TBN? It'll be my first oil change since buying the car but loved the Mobile Delvac in my 06 TDI and know I can't use it in the 09 so time to see how the ESP 1 5/40 does.

Thanks

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TBN should be ~6 to ~7 for 507.00/504.00 oils.

Dustin,

Wear looks okay, but you might benefit by reducing the service interval to 7500 miles. This is only one extra oil/filter change every 30,000 miles. The oil is very used up after 10k.

TS

How to attach or upload this UOA

5th UOA 2010 Golf TDI Aug 2013

Well, was a little surprised to see this report, BUT, the vehicle was the subject of a rear end collision. I was stopped and driver did not brake and pushed the car into the car in front of me. The front end intercooler, radiator and oil coiler were replaced. These repairs occurred about 2k miles before the oil change. The oil did appear to have a possible small amount of "water" mixed in. In retrospect, I guess I should have changed the oil as soon as I received the car back from the repair. . A few days after receiving the car back from repair, it was taken on a 2K roundtrip from NJ to Fla. Car ran flawlessly and averaged over 50 mpg .
While in Florida I did change out the stock turbo exhaust pipe with Neuspeed one. Not sure if this could have caused any additional contamination.
Additionally, I drove the car from CA to NJ, around 3K miles a few month ago during this oil run, so 5K of the 8K miles were a constant long distance run.

According to Blackstone's comments the repairs were probably the main cause of the elevated iron and aluminum ( at least I hope that is what caused the higher levels measured this time around). Also, imho the engine is probably still in the final stages of break-in.

I replaced the Castrol as I want to try the Penzoil Ultra Euro L 5W-30 to see if the TBN of this blend "lasts" any longer then the Castrol did over the last few changes.


I just ordered another 6 quarts of Penzoil Ultra Euro L 5W-30 European to change out at 5K.

4 Sept 2013
Vacuumed changed the Penzoil today @ 57789 miles, so 3874 miles on the oil. Thinking about running this to 7-8K, we'll see.

Bobt,

Yes some evidence (500+ ppm of potassium) of coolant contamination. The water generally evaporates out of the oil so you don't see it. You've also introduced some metallic debris from the repairs. I'd change this first batch of oil after the repairs @3000 miles to flush out the engine. Go 7k with the second fill and then get back to a 10k schedule. It will take several changes to get the potassium contamination out of there.

TS

TS,

I'll try and get this changed out ASAP as I have 3K already on the new Penzoil. Drove from NJ to Reno NV. I'll look to change it myself. If not I guess it's over to VW of Lithia for a dealer change. Thanks.

Bob

I took the oil sample after exactly 5000 miles of use but it was taken as soon as I pulled the drain plug out, not half way through the draining process.

I am uncertain how much difference that will make. Regardless, I switched the oil to Liqui Molly 5w40 and my next sample will be on it's way soon. I' ll make sure to take it mid way of draining . My plan is to switch after draining the Liqui Molly to Rottella T6 and send it as well and compare which sample provides the best result.

Cobra390t you should change you oil every 10k.

Cobra,

This are very low wear rates for a PD engine. You'll have a hard time improving on it. A 5w-30 will tend to pump easier than a 5w-40 in cold weather. No harm in trying other oils, but I wouldn't expect much (if any), of an improvement over 8 ppm of Fe in 5000 miles.

Blackstone Labs has recently been reporting very high flash points - in some cases higher than the FP of unused oil of the same type. So I'm not sure what's up with that?

TS

I think switching between oil brands that frequently will not give you the correct trends of either oil.

TooSlick said:

Cobra,

This are very low wear rates for a PD engine. You'll have a hard time improving on it. A 5w-30 will tend to pump easier than a 5w-40 in cold weather. No harm in trying other oils, but I wouldn't expect much (if any), of an improvement over 8 ppm of Fe in 5000 miles.

Blackstone Labs has recently been reporting very high flash points - in some cases higher than the FP of unused oil of the same type. So I'm not sure what's up with that?

TS

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Currently Running Liqui Molly 5w40 Top Tech 4100 VW spec after i drained that slx 5w30 .The choice of 5w40 is for peace of mind .

I do not experience that much of a cold weather here in South NC maybe 30F the lowest it getas for few days here and there during the peak of winter

My gut feeling telling me to Stick with Liqui Molly .. As it's also one of VW rated oil's

Henrick said:

I think switching between oil brands that frequently will not give you the correct trends of either oil.

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Now I 2nd you on that as i been considering to stick w Liqui Molly 5w40 since it's available in my area at least send it for UOA and monitor.

Generally speaking I like a thicker oil for the PD engines. So if your winters are mild then a 5w-40 or 10w-40 is probably optimum. The German oils are generally of high quality.

TS

Is this the lab to use? Blackstone-Labs in Indiana?

I collected some oil after my '12 was in for its first 10k mile service the other month. I was debating about sending it in to get it tested... Anyone else do it in their initial 10k service interval (which was nearly 1 year from when I bought the car)? Is Blackstone-Labs the only lab to consider using?

worldadventurephoto said:

I collected some oil after my '12 was in for its first 10k mile service the other month. I was debating about sending it in to get it tested... Anyone else do it in their initial 10k service interval (which was nearly 1 year from when I bought the car)? Is Blackstone-Labs the only lab to consider using?

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Well now, I'd be interested to see how a 10k OCI after 12 months looks. I don't think "a lot" of us TDI'ers drive that little so it may be really interesting to see how time and weather effects your numbers. Lots of folks send in for eval on their first 10k but I would say it's usually quite a bit quicker than a year. I know I personally do that in a little over 3 months and that seems low for even this crowd of TDI drivers.

Maybe TS or Bob can offer a better tenured opinion or even guesses to what it might look like and if you should even bother.

worldadventurephoto said:

I collected some oil after my '12 was in for its first 10k mile service the other month. I was debating about sending it in to get it tested... Anyone else do it in their initial 10k service interval (which was nearly 1 year from when I bought the car)? Is Blackstone-Labs the only lab to consider using?

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Though there haven't been any UO test results lately from the initial 10k-mile oil change interval, if you go back 12-18 months ago or more there were lots of them -- and they all looked about the same. It doesn't really make sense to run any more 10k tests.

If you want to do testing later on, you might think about a baseline test at 30k, then test again at 70k and 100k unless there's a problem.

Mrrogers1 said:

Well now, I'd be interested to see how a 10k OCI after 12 months looks. I don't think "a lot" of us TDI'ers drive that little so it may be really interesting to see how time and weather effects your numbers. Lots of folks send in for eval on their first 10k but I would say it's usually quite a bit quicker than a year. I know I personally do that in a little over 3 months and that seems low for even this crowd of TDI drivers.

Maybe TS or Bob can offer a better tenured opinion or even guesses to what it might look like and if you should even bother.

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Exactly. That was part of the reason why I wanted to get an oil analysis done, because I thought the 11 month oil change interval was stretching it. I used to drive it a bit more often actually, sometimes 2-3 times a week (round trips would average about 100 miles). But more recently the car just sits. The break in was done on the I-5 one week after I took ownership, with the car loaded to the brim and not taking it easy on the mountainous 1000 mile jaunt from Oregon to southern California). Gradually after that trip, I noticed my fuel economy steadily increase and the car got a bit louder after that trip too. Since then the car's had a lot of rest. Only occasionally pulling a trailer (2,000-2,500 lbs) and very few short trips, as I know it's the cold starts where the most wear comes from, so I often opt to bike for short trips.