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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old July 17th, 2013, 08:29   #1
limbhanger2
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: AL
Default 04' Jetta shutting off while driving

I have an 04' Jetta with the 1.9TDI. A few months ago after driving about 350 miles nonstop, it shutdown while cruising down the road. No power steering or brakes but I got it pulled over and within a minute it cranked right up and I made it home as I was within a couple miles when it died. Check engine light came on but went off before I got home. Next day was one of the first real hot days we had in the April and my wife drove it about 40 miles before it died. Again it would die while cruising down the interstate running 70 but start right back up. She managed to get it back home but it died 3-4 more times. Check engine light came on and I was gonna check it out the next day but the check engine light went back off again. We drove the car locally for over a month with no issue. My wife drives it 28 miles one way to work every day. First time I went greater than that distance with the car, it died on me after about 35 miles on another warm day. I was where I could leave the car all day and late that evening drove it home with no issues. Check engine light went off after a couple miles that evening. My wife drove it back and forth to work again for over a month and then again on its next voyage beyond 28 miles it started doing the same thing. This was in late June and we're in AL so the weather is getting pretty hot. Let it cool off for awhile and drove it home. Died before we got home. But again. Next morning check engine light was off and running fine. Well now its July and pretty hot here every day. Last week it started dying on my wife before she would get to work. After the second day it died on her and she came back home, the check engine light has actually stayed on. So I finally drove down to Autozone just to check the codes. It ran 5 different codes. PO725 and PO727 which are engine speed input malfunctions. I'm assuming it shows those because it shuts down at high speeds. PO671 was about a glow plug. PO128 was coolant below operating range which I figure was another sensor malfunction from the car shutting down instantly. And P2637 which was something about torque management feedback signal "A". I really have no idea where to start. Hard to find someone I trust to look at it. Everybody I know doesn't want to fool with the VW. I have had a couple people mention that it sounded fuel pump related or maybe a fuel temp sensor. Any ideas I could get from anyone on here would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Ben
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Old July 17th, 2013, 10:22   #2
JB05
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The P0725 &727 codes sound like the crank shaft position sensor or its wiring is at fault. That would account for the stalling; not to mention a bad in-tank lift pump which would not trigger a CEL. FYI, just because the CEL is not On does not mean that DTC's could not be stored. VCDS would have seen the codes, but don't know about the ability of the AZ's scanner.
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Old July 17th, 2013, 23:22   #3
phaser
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Both the crank shaft position sensor, or the camshaft position sensor can cause ramdom intermitent engine stumbling and or engine shut down.

Either one may or may not throw a consistent CEL code.

My experience was a occasional CEL for the camshaft position sensor, and it was replaced. Long story short, the ramdom engine stumbling, and ramdom engine shut down returned (more likely never left) after a very short period.

I never got a CEL for the crankshaft position sensor, but I replaced it anyway, and presto. Problem solved.

As far as the in tank lift pump is concerned, if you can hear the pump run when you turn the key on, the pump is probably ok.

.
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Last edited by phaser; July 17th, 2013 at 23:34.
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Old July 18th, 2013, 05:17   #4
pruzink
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I would suggest doing a diesel purge procedure; this will allow you to see if your lift pump is pumping and if your tandem pump is working. "DanG144" has a very informative write-up in here on the in-tank lift pump. There are a couple of different types of pumps used; some of them will allow flow through the pump if it fails such that the tandem pump will still be able to provide sufficient fuel to keep the car running under all conditions (there are people that had failed lift pumps & never knew it). Unfortunately, there are also lift pumps that will not pass any fuel if they fail; someone in here did a nice writeup about how to convert a lift pump so that a tandem pump can pull through it if the pump fails. I was having intermittent stalls at idle on my 04 Jetta and after trying numerous things (I replaced my lift pump, verified the flow on my tandem pump, logged & analyzed quite a bit of data). At idle, the crankshaft speed sensor tell the computer the engine RPM & thus controls how much fuel to give the engine; if it doesn't give the correct data your engine stalls. At cruising speeds the position of the gas pedal tells the computer if you more or less fuel. On the 04 BEW engine, the camshaft POSITION sensor is used for starting the car. It tells the computer which cylinder is going into compression so it can direct the fuel to the correct cylinder & sequence at starting. If this sensor goofs up it will give some longer starts but your engine will still run (this is not true for all engines but I have seen posts from Gurus on here that this is the case for this engine). I have been getting intermittent camshaft position sensor codes on my BEW for years and get an occasional longer than typical starts, but I don't think this sensor will shut a BEW down. I don't think that the code for the glow plug would have anything to do with your problem; I also don't thing the coolant temp would be related (the coolant temp can affect cranking times though as it will affect the timing).
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Old July 18th, 2013, 18:13   #5
PDJetta
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Please, before you mess with the speed (crankshaft) sensor or the camshaft sensor, verify the in tank lift pump is working. It is really simple to test. The originals were very failure prone and is common for failure by 100,000 miles. The car will stop dead in its tracks, like the key was turned off, no warning, when the lift pump fails. At least mine failed that way.

Simply lift up the rear seat and turn the key to "on" but don't engage the starter. Do you hear the pump run for a second or two? If so, the pump is probably good (but still could operate intermittently). I have actually read about an operational pump, but bad pump impeller, so you might want to remove the "fuel in" line from the fuel filter and see if it spits fuel when you turn the key on.

If the pump is in fact good, check out the engine speed sensor and wiring to the ECU for it. Then the camshaft sensor and wiring.

--Nate
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Old July 21st, 2013, 08:45   #6
keyfarms
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Crankshaft speed sensor!!! Been there done that.. It's very inexpensive to change and a 30 minute job!
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Old July 21st, 2013, 17:16   #7
pruzink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyfarms View Post
Crankshaft speed sensor!!! Been there done that.. It's very inexpensive to change and a 30 minute job!
Quick question for keyfarms. When your crankshaft speed sensor was going bad, did your stalls only occur when you were at idle or had your foot off of the fuel pedal? The only reason this post didn't fit the exact problem that me & another TDI club member had is that is sounds like his engine was cutting out on him on the highway (our problem was only when the engine RPM was controlling the fuel, at speed the pedal position does that).
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Old July 21st, 2013, 19:12   #8
keyfarms
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Yep exactly the same. Ours would quit when pulling up to a red light, or fuel pump. Mostly when you take your foot off the pedal. We replaced intank pump first also, but still didn't fix it. We could drive it all day long on the interstate and it wouldn't miss a lick! Only stop and go driving.
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Old July 21st, 2013, 19:40   #9
whitedog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDJetta View Post
Please, before you mess with the speed (crankshaft) sensor or the camshaft sensor, verify the in tank lift pump is working. It is really simple to test. The originals were very failure prone and is common for failure by 100,000 miles. The car will stop dead in its tracks, like the key was turned off, no warning, when the lift pump fails. At least mine failed that way.

Simply lift up the rear seat and turn the key to "on" but don't engage the starter. Do you hear the pump run for a second or two? If so, the pump is probably good (but still could operate intermittently). I have actually read about an operational pump, but bad pump impeller, so you might want to remove the "fuel in" line from the fuel filter and see if it spits fuel when you turn the key on.

If the pump is in fact good, check out the engine speed sensor and wiring to the ECU for it. Then the camshaft sensor and wiring.

--Nate
I agree with Nate here. It's an easy check for the fuel pump, the bad thing is that you need it to fail to test it. What I have read is that the new ones are sturdy and haven't been failing so if you can find that part number for the newer pump. You could check it to see if you have the newer one, and if so, skip to the crank or cam sensor. I am betting that it's not the fuel pump, but rather a crank sensor due to the way it needs to get hot to fail.

If it's the crank sensor and it doesn't start, watch the tachometer while cranking. Does the Tach register? No? Then the Crank sensor is bad.
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Old July 22nd, 2013, 04:38   #10
pruzink
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When I had the bad crankshaft sensor on my car that was causing my engine to stall I had absolutely ZERO indications that it was doing anything wrong. A number of the times when the engine stalled I had vagcom logging this input (and several others) in the turbo mode (quicker data entries) & when I reviewed this data there was nothing with this input to hint that it was what triggered the shutdown. When the engine stalled it was immediate as if I had turned the key off. When I was doing the diesel purge procedure, I inadvertantly lifted the diesel purge suction hose out of the fluid; if a fuel pump stops delivering fuel I am pretty sure the manner in which a car will stall is that it will resist, spudder, misfire & then die. With an intermittent crankshaft signal it will be as if you turned the key off. The good news is that this sensor wasn't that hard to change.
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