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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old May 2nd, 2012, 14:50   #16
kiva822
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hmm....my guess is that's fine, but others can confirm. If block 4 is as you describe.

I am also wondering about air in the IP/fuel as it kind of sounds like that. A leaking injector, maybe? (seriously, my skills are far below yours...I'm just reaching...)
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Old May 2nd, 2012, 20:35   #17
Billshire
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Hmm. A leaky injector could be the cause of the trouble. The PO told me he had the injectors serviced, it's possible the crush washers were reused. Also, I doubt your skills are far below mine, we're all TDIers here. Thanks much for the input and I'll update when I'm done working on things tonight.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 14:37   #18
Billshire
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Summary of the Issue:

Issue:

Car will not start
Initially was starting hard, now will not start.

Checked:

Coolant Temperature Sensor - was green - replaced with green OEM CTS
N109 - was gray - replaced with another gray N109
IP Timing - Tried advancing and retarding, made no difference. Set timing back to where it was initially.
IP Seals - Suspected a leak, replaced QA seals and Head seal.
Primed Fuel Filter and IP; Cracked nuts at injectors & cranked to bleed lines.
Re & Re'd the starter.
Charged Battery
Checked alternator - when running is 14.3 volts regardless of RPM
Checked MAF via VCDS - numbers are good
Tried unplugging MAF and driving - super sluggish with MAF unplugged
EGR Clean, Anti Shudder Valve never sticks.
Fuel Shutoff Solenoid clicks when it gets 12v jumpered to it.
All fuses are good
Ignition Switch seems good

Could be a problem:

Glow plug relay may be shot, didn't get 12v to the lines with CTS unplugged. (it's 65-70 F here)
Have to check cylinder compression
PO had injectors serviced, may not have replaced the crush washers.
Oil change and Timing Belt is due for change in <1000 miles

Known Issues (might be playing into this?)

There is a 1/4" hole in the exhaust pipe a few feet behind the Catalytic Converter, have to fix
Radiator Fans do not spin, have to fix this as well


Next steps I'm going to take:
Temporarily repair hole in the exhaust until I can replace the pipe,
Pull the QA off the IP and make sure everything looks fine inside there.
Cylinder Compression Test
Replace Glow Plug Relay
?

I think this is up to date and accurate; any help with this will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Will
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 14:42   #19
dieseldorf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snakeye View Post
Did you check your IP timing?
+1.

You need to verify the timing is correct, Bill. These cars fire instantly, whether hot or cold, when the timing is set right.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 20:31   #20
Billshire
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Thanks diseldorf, I'll probably have to invest in the full version of vcds to check my timing thoroughly.

I did a compression test today, cylinders 1-4 - 500 465 480 500

Pretty good for 200K miles I think.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 20:57   #21
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did you go through the full TDC procedure? Flywheel, cam lock, pin the pump, etc.?
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 21:05   #22
Billshire
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Kiva, I have not done that but I may try before investing in vcds. Not that I don't want vcds, because I do, I just don't have the money right now. Sunday is supposed to be nice, I may do that procedure then. All I have done with my timing so far is advance and retard it a little bit at the IP cam, before putting it back to where it started. Thanks all.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 21:37   #23
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Default startng issues

FWIW:
I don't have a lot of experiance with this sort of thing, but on my 1999.5 MK4, I had replaced a failed starter with a used one that I had from a '96 MK3 motor. Everything fit ok and seemed to work fine, but some months later I started having hard warm starting issues, which coincided with an injection pump rebuild.
I suspected the rebuilt injection pump was bad, because of other issues that developed at the same time, so the big name injection shop in Portland Oregon warranteed the pump and labor. They were great to work with.
All the other symptoms went away, except the hard warm starting.
Finally we found the starter was not the correct one for the TDI w/MT.
It was from an earlier automatic, and was found to be cranking a bit too slow when warm.
Replacing the starter with the correct one solved that problem immediately.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 13:32   #24
Billshire
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Update - Put the engine to TDC - Locked the cam - IP was off, loosened the bolts on the pulley, rotated and pinned the pump and tightened the bolts back to 18 ft/lbs. Attempted to start and still no firing after 3 10 second cranks. Did not get any white smoke out of the exhaust. IP bolts did not slip.

WE7X - I do not believe the starter is incorrect, it is the original that came with the car according to PO and from what I could tell when I pulled it, that was indeed the case. I lubricated the main shaft/electric motor with some white lithium grease and then used some bearing grease on the gears that the main shaft turns. Once reinstalled the starter turned the engine over at almost 400 RPM. Seemed to work well but did not correct the hard start issue. I followed Wingnut's post on how to re & re the starter:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=844411

Not really suspecting IP not delivering fuel because I get fuel spurting at the injectors when I crack them, although I will probably pull the IP apart sometime tonight and inspect it as well as I can. Could there be exhaust blockage at the Cat? I will get under the car to inspect the exhaust this weekend. Any thoughts on exhaust blockage? What goes in must come out right? Again, thanks all. I appreciate the help.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 20:12   #25
Billshire
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Another Update -

I jacked the car up and got underneath to inspect things, everything seemed well, except I noticed that the catalytic converter body seemed to be very rusty with the surrounding pipes fairly new looking. Also it seems like the pipe coming off the cat that meets the pipe that goes to the muffler was joined with something that didn't look factory. I may look at replacing the cat portion of the exhaust soon.

After removing the QA from the IP, taking a lot of pictures and double checking everything was good inside, I put everything back together and was able to start the car. The engine slowly climbed in RPM's till I killed it at about 2000 RPM. It was putting out LOTS of white smoke, probably put a lot of fuel into the cylinders with all the cranking and no starts. I adjusted the QA and attempted to start the car again but the starter was not turning over quick enough to start the car, maybe 200 RPM or less. I pulled the QA off to make sure I had it positioned correctly and had the pin of the control motor in the control collar; seemed to be okay. Tried to start again and was turning over even more slowly. Pulled the battery and I'm charging it again. I may just pick up a new starter this weekend. Thanks for all the suggestions and I'll keep you all updated.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 22:28   #26
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A Third Update -

This problem is getting unbearably frustrating. With a fully charged battery, the car sis not start.

I removed the QA from the IP, spilled some fuel into the catch rags, reinserted and tried to start the car.
Fired first time, maybe two revolutions of the engine. Idled high - about 1150 rpm.

Killed the engine and moved the QA squarely to the marks I left with a scratch awl.
Engine started, eventually, after 7 seconds of cranking or so

Check VCDS, IQ was at 9 (strange, IQ was at 3 where I made the marks.

Hammer modded QA with car idling until VCDS read 4.5 (looking for better mileage)

Car ran fine. drove it around for about two hours since I hadn't been able to drive it for two weeks.

Ended up parking and getting groceries, returned to the car and IT WOULD NOT START.

Frustrated, I grabbed my tools out of the hatch and opened the hood. Pulled the QA off the IP and put it right back. Engine starts. Idles high. Killed engine. Removed IP and placed it back exactly where my marks were. Started after 4 seconds of cranking. Drove home in a terrible mood.

- - - -

So - what is happening here?

If I leave the QA so far to the right that the engine starts to run away - the engine will start up fine.

If I place the QA where it will idle, the thing barely starts.

I suspect that the thermostatic tee and fuel filter may be bad and I plan on replacing them this week. I do not think this is directly causing the issue. If the car starts, it will drive forever with no hiccups, stalling, or anything of the sort.

Am I looking at a bad Injection Pump here? Bad Quantity Adjuster? Bad injectors? Bad Crank Position Sensor? Bad Glow Plug Relay? Bad Luck?

Also something strange to note - while I was cranking the engine over in the parking lot after getting groceries, I noticed my speedometer would jump to about 5mph or so. It usually does not do that.

I feel that I cannot get this resolved in the near future I may well sell the car.
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Old May 5th, 2012, 22:50   #27
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I have huge respect for how far you've gone with this issue. For me, I love figuring stuff out and learning about my cars. However, at some point, I just give it to a pro to fix. My time is too valuable. Perhaps, you're at that point?

My vote is bad QA...but hell, I dunno.

edit: one suggestion that I might make: post in the TDI 101 forum. IMO, you are in the right area, but that gets more traffic, me thinks. However, that may be a no-no, forum rules-wise....
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Last edited by kiva822; May 5th, 2012 at 22:54.
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Old May 6th, 2012, 12:53   #28
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Tough one. Just wrote a long reply and my iPhone suddenly decided I wanted to jump to the toureg section and dumped the post.

Pump case pressure/vane pump problem.

I'd very much like to see timing in basic settings.

Good luck. You're doing a great job so far.
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Old May 6th, 2012, 13:29   #29
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runonbeer, would the case pressure release valve can't cause that problem, can it? I thought it was only seen as an issue with upper RPM's?

It would be very interesting to replace with known good pump. Anybody near you have a spare and/or maybe pick one up used on the cheap, so long as it's 'known good / running'?
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Old May 6th, 2012, 13:55   #30
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I don't know if the plug has anything to do with it but I am implicating actual case pressure here. Ie stuck vanes on primary or fuel restriction. Seems intermittent too.

We need to know that it's timed in the graph.
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