It May Be Diesel's Turn to Shine As Americans Yawn at Hybrids

[RabbitGTI]

^^^az

[bhtooefr]

Actually, it's California plates, but the point stands.

Although I have seen plenty of 200k Corollas and Camries here in Ohio, which is just as bad with rust...

[UTAH]

AP NEWS: Hybrid and electric cars see record sales in March

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/5...sales.html.csp

Bill

[IndigoBlueWagon]

And when fuel prices fall they'll sit on the lots unsold. And someone should tell the SL Tribune about the improper use of the word it's in the picture caption. Nice editing.

[thebigarniedog]

Here is the thing: You can buy a brand new Jetta with a 6 speed manual for about $22(K). It is a pretty good deal for what you get all things considered. It would be a great deal if vw would: (1) warranty, no fault, hpfp for life to original owner and no fault for a period of years/miles for successive owners; (2) teach their techs not to kill the damn things with their fail; and (3) educate the owners to refrain from their tendency to kill them with their Tooefing. Number 2 and 3 might be asking too much though.

As for which brand of car is better (ie vw versus the world), the prior generation of vws are rock solid. It just amazes me that people think they can just neglect the damn thing and then act shocked that it falls apart. If the postings by some are any guide, I am shocked they make it as far as they do (ie CAI postings; WVO fail, Wrong spec'd oil, CRAP bought from you know where, mark and prey tb jobs and the list goes on and on).

[LRTDI]

Originally Posted by DickSilver

It is a disappointment that VW is currently not putting any TDIs into its base models. So there is s base Golf or Jetta with a 2.5 liter gasser in the area of $20k, but no TDI unless you spend about $25k. They would sell a LOT more TDIs if they did that.

$5k buys alot of miles worth of gas before you "break even"

[16vjohn]

Originally Posted by LRTDI

$5k buys alot of miles worth of gas before you "break even"

Let's compare the cost to drive 100,000 miles in each a base 2.0L Jetta and a "base" TDI Jetta.

1. Base Jetta, $16,645. EPA Rated 28mpg combined. Cost of RUG in my area, $3.64.

100,000 miles / 28mpg = 3,571 gallons * $3.64 = $12,998 + $16,645 = $29,643 / 100,000 miles = ~$0.30/mile.

2. Base TDI Jetta, $22,775. EPA Rated 34mpg combined. Cost of Diesel in my area, $4.19

100,000 miles / 34mpg = 2,941 gallons * $4.19 = $12,322 + $22,775 = $35,097 / 100,000 miles = ~$0.35/mile

3. Base Yaris, $14,115. EPA Rated 33mpg combined.

100,000 miles / 33mpg = 3,030 gallons * $3.64 = $11,029 + $14,115 = $25,144 / 100,000 miles = ~$0.25/

Normally I would agree that the TDI would begin to show a big payoff from mile 100,001 to 200,000, but the reliability and longevity of the car is now in question. Do we factor in 5 - 7 grand for fuel pumps, turbos, etc? Back in the ALH days, a TDI was a no brainer. 50mpg could be achieved consistently, the engine as a whole really was capable of 200k without a major repair. Today, I just don't see it. My love for diesels ended when VW decided to start selling junk and denying warranties. I'll see how Mazda and Chevy treat their diesel customers and by then I'll be in the market for another car.

I guess something can be said about "what you get" when comparing gasoline jetta to TDI Jetta. Clearly, you get a lot more car for not a lot more money when cost per mile is considered. If cheap transportation is the goal, the VW TDI can't touch the Yaris and similar gasser competitors like it used to. Too bad.

[IndigoBlueWagon]

The cost calculation is more complex than you make it. First, diesels tend to beat their EPA ratings, gasoline cars tend to fall short. For example, my '12 Golf with 4K on it is averaging 40 MPG so far in about 60% city driving, in winter. Surely it will get better.

Second, TDI resale values are consistently higher than the comparable gasoline car. Look at the ALH Jetta wagons selling for 10K or more these days, even with 150K+ on them. Although you could argue whether or not this will continue, history would say you'll get more for a used TDI than a comparable gasser.

Third, diesel to gasoline prices fluctuate. Right now gasoline is $3.87 or so here, diesel is $4.19. That's a smaller gap than a month ago. Next month? Who knows.

And maintenance costs are the big question mark. Which is more expensive? Historically, diesels have been cheaper to maintain. Now, maybe not so much.

[16vjohn]

I realize the calculation is more complex than that, and this is hardly the first time this has been discussed here. All I am saying is that the savings were a no brainer 10 years ago. Today with the reliability issues, it's quite the opposite. If you're into TDI vehicles because you like diesels and appreciate the car in other ways, that's different. But nobody here should be under the illusion that a TDI is the end all of economical transportation. Fortunately for most of us, we have older cars that are good, proven designs... with many sources for affordable replacement parts.

[slamhouse]

Originally Posted by 16vjohn

Normally I would agree that the TDI would begin to show a big payoff from mile 100,001 to 200,000, but the reliability and longevity of the car is now in question. Do we factor in 5 - 7 grand for fuel pumps, turbos, etc?

I guess something can be said about "what you get" when comparing gasoline jetta to TDI Jetta. Clearly, you get a lot more car for not a lot more money when cost per mile is considered. If cheap transportation is the goal, the VW TDI can't touch the Yaris and similar gasser competitors like it used to. Too bad.

Every car has its flaws. The prius has 6k$ batteries which have a tendance to fail at around 130k miles.

My friend has a 2006 jetta 2.5l gasser and hes put 6k$ worth of repairs into it in the past year. this is with smaller things like radiator fans and leaks from seals and fuel pumps.

Being a member of this forum, We are only subject to the flaws of our current vehicle manufacturer(VW) and not that of the other vehicles that we speak so highly of.

This becomes a matter of current world events and a lack of knowledge in the common consumer. Most citizens will leap towards what appears to be the most socially acceptable and praised way. in which many people bought a prius to be more economical and eco-friendly, in which toyota capitalized on the war on oil in foreign soils issue as well as being green to save our planet.

I was informed on how bad the prius actually was and when i saw the potential of diesel in the jetta, i jumped on it. i burn the same amount of fuel as a prius without the hazardous batteries to carry around that contain metals that have to be sourced on the planet...

Just buy the car you like and be happy.

To each their own.

[oilhammer]

Originally Posted by slamhouse

. The prius has 6k$ batteries which have a tendance to fail at around 130k miles.

To each their own.

No it doesn't. And no they don't. Man, where do the hybrid bashers actually find this kind of nonsense? The Prius is far from perfect, and it is awful to drive, but the battery part is not an issue for 99% of the ones on the road, and they have replaceable cells that are not that expensive. Please, do a little research before you spout off nonsense about things you don't understand. I am a Toyota hybrid certified tech, I know quite a bit about them.

[kjclow]

Fuel prices last night were $3.61 for Rug and $3.97 for D2. It seems that the 30 cent price differental never goes away, at least in SC. Also, for these calculations resale is not part of the equation. Who says that your going to get rid of your car at 100,000 miles? Resale only comes in to play when it's time to update.

I have not driven a yaris but drove the fit and versa while looking for a good third or fourth car. There really is no comparison between those and the Golf. Although they are in the same size class, you get a lot more car.

[ReadyKilowatt]

Saw this yesterday:
http://www.coloradogasprices.com/map...id=112511&ft=A

Note regular 85 octane and diesel were the same price, $4.19. Granted, this is a station that likely doesn't sell much diesel and may not have had a delivery, but interesting anyway.

[16vjohn]

ROFL.... I'd have a hard time buying anything or being seen at a "Kum & Go".... ...

[ReadyKilowatt]

Originally Posted by 16vjohn

ROFL.... I'd have a hard time buying anything or being seen at a "Kum & Go".... ...

My favorite is still Sheetz, in the mid-Atlantic region.

Holy Sheetz, Batman!