Rumor Mongering GM diesel Cruze????

[oilhammer]

Can't run anything over B5 anyways, even without AdBlue. Check your manual.

[bhtooefr]

Technically, all TDIs are only allowed to run B5 in the US to maintain warranty.

However, they actually mean it on all of the VWs with DPFs, due to the in-cylinder post-injection that VW uses (however, Ford is getting B20 compatibility on the same system).

So, a 2006-2008 Touareg V10 TDI has a DPF, nothing else.

A 2009-present Touareg or Q7 V6 TDI, or a 2012-present Passat TDI, has a DPF and urea. Urea is injected downstream, for neutralizing NOx, and its behavior is unrelated to biodiesel use. The DPF is the problem, not the urea.

A 2009-present Jetta, SportWagen, or A3, or a 2010-present Golf, or a 2013-present Beetle TDI, has a DPF, a NOx trap, and an H2S trap. This requires more post injection than any of the DPF+urea cars.

This makes the DPF+urea cars better for biodiesel. It also means they get significantly better fuel economy on any fuel.

[TDIMeister]

Diesel-Powered Chevy Cruze May Be a Tough Sell

[nicklockard]

Yup. Wasn't it you, Dave, who predicted a convergence of diesel and gasoline engine technology?

In the last ten years...

Diesel compression ratio's have gone from 19.5:1 to 16:1
Gasoline compression ratio's have gone from 10:1 to 13.5:1

Diesel used to have fuel economy advantage relative to best-in-same-class car w/gasoline engine of

45mpg/$2.0/gal = 22.5 miles/dollar
______________
versus gasoline:
29 mpg/$2.20/gal = 13.2 miles/dollar

Advantage, 2002: Diesel was 70% better miles/dollar ten years ago


Now:

35 mpg/$4.40/gal = 8 miles/dollar
______________
versus gasoline:
35 mpg/$3.99/gal = 8.8 miles/dollar

Advantage, 2012: gasoline gets 10% better miles/dollar versus best-in-same-class diesel.




If they ever get HCCI technology working for GDI engines, diesel's days might be numbered.

[manual_tranny]

Originally Posted by nicklockard

If they ever get HCCI technology working for GDI engines, diesel's days might be numbered.

Somewhere in between the subsidies and the financial finagling, diesel has gotten the short end of the whip. (Whip... crack... get it?)

In dollars, what is the cost of:

Removing sulfur from diesel fuel?

Removing sulfur from gasoline?

The cost of cracked gasoline vs. diesel pre-sulfur removal?

How much would the above cost/provide (in yottajoules, please) over the period of Earth's human habitation lifespan?

Why do Americans consider gasoline to be the champagne of fuels?

I suppose I always have been more partial to beer...

[kjclow]

Costs? no idea but if you look at "old" refining processes of just running the crude through a distillation column, diesel comes out fairly early in the process and different grades of gasoline come out at a much higher temperature. I believe that most crude is initially run through the distillation column and the resulting fractions are then run through the cracker to force higher production of more profitable end products.

[nicklockard]

Originally Posted by kjclow

Costs? no idea but if you look at "old" refining processes of just running the crude through a distillation column, diesel comes out fairly early in the process and different grades of gasoline come out at a much higher temperature. I believe that most crude is initially run through the distillation column and the resulting fractions are then run through the cracker to force higher production of more profitable end products.

Other way. Diesel's b.p. is higher, so it takes more temperature. Gasoline comes off the fractional distillation stack higher up. Boiling point of a compound fraction is inverse to height on the stack. Cracking, to my knowledge, can only shift the balance a few % points.

[kjclow]

yep, I was looking at the fractions coming out, not the temp. You can actually shift the balance quite far these days, depending on the crude stock and age of the refinery. I've heard of percentages in the 10 to 15% range.

[wxman]

Originally Posted by nicklockard

Other way. Diesel's b.p. is higher, so it takes more temperature. Gasoline comes off the fractional distillation stack higher up. Boiling point of a compound fraction is inverse to height on the stack. Cracking, to my knowledge, can only shift the balance a few % points.

@Nick - I claim no expertise in petroleum refining, but it is my understanding from previous discussions here at tdiclub and other forums that straight distillation yields much greater volumes of middle distillate than "straight-run" gasoline (e.g., http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2174), and that some middle distillate is actually "cracked" to gasoline. The shortfall in middle distillate is apparently made up by cracking the heavier residuals to something called "light cycle oil" (LCO). LCO supposedly has similar properties to "straight-run" middle distillate, but has a much lower cetane number (~20; straight-run middle distillate 50-55). The relatively large quantities of LCO combined with the straight-run middle distillate is the reason for the low quality of U.S. diesel fuel, or so I understand it.

[darrelld]

http://media.gm.com/media/ba/en/chev...26_dieselmyths

DETROIT – The planned U.S. introduction of a 2.0L clean turbo diesel version of the Chevrolet Cruze next year is expected to benefit from growing interest in diesel cars, sales of which could double by mid-decade, according to market research firm Baum and Associates.
Diesel car sales, which account for 3 percent of U.S. sales today, are trending up, having jumped 35 percent in the first quarter of 2012 compared to the same period in 2011. Diesel car sales grew more than 27 percent last year, according to the Diesel Technology Forum. Baum and Associates predicts diesel to account for 6 percent of car sales by 2015
General Motors sold more than half a million diesel-powered cars across Europe, Asia, Africa and South America last year, including 33,000 Cruzes.
The North American introduction of a diesel engine on Cruze – one of the top-selling gasoline-powered cars in the U.S. in 2011 and General Motors’ best-selling model globally – is expected to establish Chevrolet as the only domestic automaker offering an American- manufactured diesel-powered compact car with a European-American developed engine.
“Even with high fuel prices, we’re seeing more consumers willing to invest in more advanced technology, fuel-efficient vehicles,” said Allen Schaeffer, executive director of the Diesel Technology Forum, a non-profit educational organization. “We’re really excited about what the Chevy Cruze brings to this segment. It’s already a successful car in its fuel efficiency and market acceptance. With GM’s advanced clean-burning diesel technology under the hood, Cruze stands to be a game changer.”

[darrelld]

Originally Posted by oilhammer

I hope they bring it, but I am not holding my breath. We've just been given this same line too many times by too many manufacturers.

True, Honda comes to mind. Remember the promises of a diesel TSX? They waited until just before the supposed launch and backed away.

[TDIMeister]

I think the way it will play out is that fuel prices will moderate and the D2 premium at the pump will become all the more glaring. Further, the homologated EPA numbers will not meet all the hyped up expectations and give too little improvement over the Cruze Eco to justify the sticker premium and extra cost at the pump.

[kjclow]

It would work best if GM would price the diesel and the eco models the same and let the public determine which is really the better package.

[TDIMeister]

Will never happen unless GM intentionally wants to sell the Diesel as a loss leader. Highly doubtful.

[darrelld]

Does anyone know if the Cruze will support B20? Every other GM diesel does.