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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI (Diesel) Emissions

TDI (Diesel) Emissions This is a discussion about emissions from TDI's. Pro's cons of Diesels (including biodiesel) effects on the environment and how they compare to Gasoline and other fuel sources for Internal combustion engines.

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Old March 31st, 2012, 07:08   #196
tdi90hp
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that is the KEY question....nobody seems to know.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 05:12   #197
Gigitt
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MemberName: Gigitt
Model Year: 2011
Model: Mk5 Jetta Sedan (1K)
Tranny: DSG
Miles: 11,620km [7,220mi]
Oil Ash Volume: 0ml
Oil Type: ?? Still Factory
Avrg. MPG: 5.7 l/100km = 41.27 MPG

Comments: Australian Spec 125TDI (170CR), Engine code CEG, Built 09/2010
VCDS v11.11.3 gives me:
[Group 108] Oil Ash Volume=0ml, Particle Filter Carbon Mass (spec)=21.9,
Particle Filter Carbon Mass (act)=3.3
[Group 106] Fuel Consumption since regeneration=22.4L, Driven Distance since regeneration=390km, Time elapsed since Regeneration 660.0
[Group 105] Bin Bits=00000000, Requested Regenerations=6, Temperature=30dC
[Group 101] Engine Speed (G28)=0/min, Emerg Regenerat current Duration=0.0, Energ Regenerat Time since Start=0.0, Sucessful Regenerations=0.0
[Group 240]
Blank
[Group 241] Blank
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Old May 2nd, 2012, 07:43   #198
chfscott
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Member, chfscott
Year, 2011
Model, JSW
Mileage, 40442
Trans., DSG
Ash oil volume, 30ml
Oil, Castrol LL03
MPG, 43

Last edited by chfscott; May 2nd, 2012 at 07:52. Reason: unfinished
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Old May 7th, 2012, 17:18   #199
bluey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBuckeye View Post
I wonder if cetane has any affect on oil ash build up. Anyone know if higher concentrations of cetane increases the burn temperature of diesel fuel? Would a better burn produce less ash? I've been using a good additive from day one, but I don't see my DPF accumulation data being any different than the rest of the posts.
I believe cetane is very important.

VW in Australia recommends diesel with minimum cetane number of CN51 (CZ51 in german) for DPF equipped vehicles and CN49(CZ49) for non-DPF vehicles. Standard diesel here is minimum cetane 46, typically higher, but borderline on the CN51 VW recommendation.

I presume the 120k mile DPF inspection time is based on tests using fuel that meets the VW CN51 standard. EN590 diesel standard also specifies the same CN51 since 2004.

Higher cetane fuel results in less smoke. On our non-DPF PD TDI, the smoke is readily visible on heavy throttle and standard fuel. A cetane improving additive (apparently usually 2EHN) or a "high cetane fuel" reduces visible smoke using the "smoke in the following vehicle's headlights as seen in the rear vision mirror at night" test.

BP launched in 2008 in Australia an "Ultimate Diesel" product which contained a nitro-type (probably 2EHN) cetane improver. Two years later, they removed it due to safety risk assessment - presumably explosion risk of undiluted 2EHN at fuel storage sites. So there are no out of the pump diesel products in Australia that meet the CN51 specification.

2EHN safety information: http://www.atc-europe.org/showdoc.asp?doc_id=294

2EHN info from a large manufacturer:http://www.eurenco.com/en/2ehn/index.html

I read a research paper that found 2EHN alone as an additive increased injector fouling, so I believe 2EHN must be used in an additive which also contains an injector cleaner. A local diesel mechanic uses both a smoke-reducing additive and a periodic injector cleaner (BG 244K) every 7500km (<5000miles).

So, I believe that fuelling a DPF vehicle with fuel which does not meet the VW CN51 specification will result in more smoke. More soot gets DPF-regenerated to more ash, which builds up in the DPF, until it fails. Where fuels have a CN<51, which I understand is most of USA, which is worse than most of Australia, DPF life must be significantly shorter than engineered for CN>=51. At least in the USA, you have an extended DPF warranty, presumably part of the compromise to permit sale of DPF-equipped vehicles in a country where the fuel does not meet VW/VAG specifications.

Unless evidence appears to the contrary, I continue to run a cetane improving (smoke reducing) additive in both our diesel cars.

A poster on an Australian VW forum recently had a DPF failure at 75000km on Mk5 Golf GTD and still under warranty, but VW refused to repair under warranty claiming the DPF is a "consumable item". DPFs cost about AUD2500, compared to a few hundred euros via ebay - something odd going on there - ?price gouging or inferior second quality products being sold on ebay.

At this point, I believe the early DPF failure problem is caused by low cetane fuel not meeting VW specification CN51. In markets where such fuel is not readily available (non-EU), VW is dodging liability for releasing cars with DPFs which are bound to fail early and at great expense to unsuspecting owners.
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Old May 7th, 2012, 20:21   #200
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134,500 miles and the DPF is still DPF'ing....

Waiting for my excuse to increase the power and fuel economy via some surgery and ecu re-flash. I may be waiting a while longer.
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Old May 12th, 2012, 15:58   #201
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Great idea on the thread McBuckeye, here you go!

Member Name: CLUTCHNSHIFT

Model Year: 2009

Model: Seddan

Tranny: DSG

Miles: 121,772

Oil Ash Volume: 120 ml (engine was off, if it matters)

Oil Type: Liqui Moly Top Tech 4200 on the last two oil changes.

Avg MPG: 38.7 (life of the car)

Comments: Dealership used Castrol LL03 for the first 6 oil changes, after that I went to Liqui Moly Top Tech 4200 for the 7th oil change, Castrol LL03 for the 8th, Pentosin Super Performance for the 9th, Liqui Moly Top Tech 4200 for the 10th & 11th. The 12th is now due and I will again use Liqui Moly.

Additional Data

Fuel Consumption Since Last Regen: 6.05 USGAL
Distance Since Last Regen: 273.4 Miles
Time Since Last Regen: 324 Minutes
Regenerations Requested: 3
Calculated Soot Load: 11.7g
Measured Soot Load: 0.0g
Averages Since Last Regen: 50.6 MPH & 45.2 MPG

- Peter
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Old May 15th, 2012, 10:06   #202
tdi90hp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarbe View Post
134,500 miles and the DPF is still DPF'ing....

Waiting for my excuse to increase the power and fuel economy via some surgery and ecu re-flash. I may be waiting a while longer.
Lovin the maturing CR mileage portfolio..Give us an idea of how it's been mechanically.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 19:22   #203
Tarbe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdi90hp View Post
Lovin the maturing CR mileage portfolio..Give us an idea of how it's been mechanically.

It has been perfect.

Changed headlights and tail lights.

Otherwise, just normal maintenance. Still running the 2nd set of tires.

Brakes are untouched. All glow plugs and injectors are original.
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'12 Touareg TDI Lux 35k miles (In service 1/2012)
'12 Jetta SE 25k miles (In service 2/2012)
'09 TDI JSW 6M 172k (Totaled 8/2013!)
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Old May 17th, 2012, 21:56   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarbe View Post
It has been perfect.

Changed headlights and tail lights.

Otherwise, just normal maintenance. Still running the 2nd set of tires.

Brakes are untouched. All glow plugs and injectors are original.
great to hear,,,,keep us in the loop....
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Old May 18th, 2012, 07:57   #205
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thelemite has 200k on his '09 and no DPF issues yet:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=352622
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Old May 19th, 2012, 09:22   #206
tdi90hp
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ya it's a good story...BioD 2% and no additives and he turned over 200K...read the thread
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Old May 20th, 2012, 21:48   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLUTCHNSHIFT View Post
Oil Type: Liqui Moly Top Tech 4200 on the last two oil changes.
Comments: Dealership used Castrol LL03 for the first 6 oil changes, after that I went to Liqui Moly Top Tech 4200 for the 7th oil change, Castrol LL03 for the 8th, Pentosin Super Performance for the 9th, Liqui Moly Top Tech 4200 for the 10th & 11th. The 12th is now due and I will again use Liqui Moly.
- Peter
Curious why you keep switching engine oils? Finding good deals on the different oil, or just getting what is available to you at the time?

Great read on the 2009 with all those miles! I'm sitting at 84K no real issues either. Need to get his DPF oil ash info...

I'll update the DPF data this week with the latest posts. Work, kids, wife, and more of the same has me busy.
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Old June 15th, 2012, 06:24   #208
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MemberName: andy7079
Model Year: 2010
Model: Jetta Sedan
Tranny: DSG
Miles: 32522
Oil Ash Volume: 30mL
Oil Type: Castrol LL03
Avrg. MPG: 38.1
Comments: Optilube XPD Additive
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Old July 28th, 2012, 17:56   #209
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MemberName: dean_park
Model Year: 2011
Model: Golf
Tranny: 6M
Miles: 19326
Oil Ash Volume: 9 ml
Oil Type: Castrol LL03
Avrg. MPG: 39.93
Comments: previous regen 30km prior
Seems like the level hasn't risen since 13xxx when my last one was done, but in both cases, I caught it right after a regen.
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Old July 29th, 2012, 07:04   #210
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Any of you fellas burn wood to heat your house?
This ash / soot thing reminds me of the wood stove chimney (DPF) when I keep it turned down and smoldering I get much more creosote (soot) build up in my chimney and of course anyone who burns wood knows you need to burn it hot every day to release the soot out the chimney (Italian tune up). But no matter sooner or later enough soot build up starts a chimney fire (active regen) thrusting most of the soot build up out the chimney but as we know if you have a clean out not all goes out into the yard and lays on the snow the rest is collected in the clean out (DPF) as ash which is denser than wood ash and finer due to hot re-burn (active regen) in chimney.
So summary seems to be burn it hot (long runs), use the best dry wood (clean D2 only and low ash oil), be careful not to burn too much paper (wrong additive) which starts a fire you can't control)
lol
I hope to get the software some day but will be left reading these interesting threads till then.
Keep up the good work
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