Beef on a Budget. VR6/Wagon springs

WillR

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2001
Location
Honey Brook, PA
Thanks for the link, after the $50.00 mail in rebate from tire rack it's a wash because the rack charges me shipping.

I did notice tirebuyer ships from a PA location, that means I probably have to pay sales tax over what I figured above. Tire rack ships from Del, the state of "tax free shopping".
 

WillR

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2001
Location
Honey Brook, PA
I think I am going to "join your club" here with my 99 A4 Jetta.
Measurements to top of wheel well "pre fixing" = Front 25 3/4" and rear 27"
Strut mounts show 1/2 gap (shot).
put all the front parts on tonight. Complete lower control arms, TC struts, VR6 springs, those Spacers everyone sells and all the attatching parts and bolts.

Post fixing = front measured 27 1/2". That's 1.75 inches lift.
I will do the back shocks tomorrow.
But I have a feeling I might need wagon springs to balance out the rear.
 

JungleDeath

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Location
Reno, NV, USA
TDI
00 Golf_11 JSW
Although it's too late, the spacers are not necessary. You can take them out w/o removing the whole strut. But it is a pita. Ask me how I know....

Be aware, that the more lift you give your car, the more rebound you take from your car. Don't be surprised when you hear 'bang' when you drive over a speed bump a little to fast. It's just the effect of extending the strut/shock further than stock.
 

1.9 TDI Awd

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Location
Marquette, Michigan
TDI
2000 TDI Golf 5spd
WillR sounds like a new machines worth of parts. Spoiling your VW, nice! Cant wait to hear how much u like it after all the work is done.
 

silverbox

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Location
Halifax Nova Scotia
TDI
jetta wagon 2003 silver
put all the front parts on tonight. Complete lower control arms, TC struts, VR6 springs, those Spacers everyone sells and all the attatching parts and bolts.

Post fixing = front measured 27 1/2". That's 1.75 inches lift.
I will do the back shocks tomorrow.
But I have a feeling I might need wagon springs to balance out the rear.
Or you could ad airbags to the rear springs and customize your spring rate.
 

WillR

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2001
Location
Honey Brook, PA
I did the rear shocks yesterday. Old springs, new TC shocks = 27". I am going to leave it like this. the car is only driven with me alone in the car, no trailers, no load in trunk.
I bet the front settles at least 1/2" over the next few weeks so it will all work out.

It is definitely a different car. Stearing is tight now, no more "Buick" body roll on corners. Additional ride clearance is nice.

Also installed my own "home made" glow plug harness yesterday. Cleared the CEL and it's gone. Car now starts on all 4 cylinders again. This morning it was 24 deg F, so I just had to try it :)

I need tires next, and I think I am going with the stock size.
 

1.9 TDI Awd

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Location
Marquette, Michigan
TDI
2000 TDI Golf 5spd
Curious about your "homemade" glow plug harness. I have cel for it too, havnt gotten to it. Now my airbag light is on...***? O well just meens I get more time with me and the tdi.
 

nokivasara

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Location
Sweden @ Lat 61N
TDI
Tiguan 4-motion, Golf mk7
Maybe this should have a thread of its own but I just happened to look at a pair of Passat -92 front springs that I have had on a shelf for years.
They have the same outer diameter and same diameter of the spring (rod? coil?) but are 23mm longer. That's just under 1".

I have no idea what the spring rate is but a Passat TD is quite heavy so they are probably stiffer than a Golf IV spring.


I just might try them when I change my strut mounts.
 
Last edited:

1.9 TDI Awd

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Location
Marquette, Michigan
TDI
2000 TDI Golf 5spd
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=336067
of course read the glow plug 101 first :).
many times it is a glow plug causing the problem.
thanks, i know i have a cel due to Acient Harness! another project on the list. FrostHeater/blockheater installed, helps.
Update, Suspension now 3kmiles holding great feels great. thought i had a strut clunk, ended up being a loose front sway bar mount bolt. some reason backed its way out alil and ate a few threads.
 

WillR

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2001
Location
Honey Brook, PA
My new suspension is doing great. No noise (even on speed bumps).
First thing I noticed was the MPG went way down! then I noticed riding in the rain, if the RF wheel hydroplaned, the car would shoot to the R, If LS hydroplaned the car would shoot to the left. Lets think about this. I raised the car 2", which should not change camper, but it will change toe. Must be toed in way to far. Throw my home made alignment equipment on the car and found 1/2" toe in :eek:. fixed that and mounted the new Kumho's. Man it's a different car now.

But the tie adjustments were frozen. When I turned the big nut it broke the rubber boot on the tie rod. No play in the joints but now that boot is broken I got to replace them (at $11.00 each I should have done it right the first time). well it will wait until March or April before State Inspection is due. :D
 

NarfBLAST

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 3, 2002
Location
Waterdown, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2001 Golf 5MT
I would replace the torn boot as soon as possible or you will be replacing the inner tie rod, it doesn't take much water and dirt to ruin the inner tie rod I had one that was replaced and the mechanic left a torn boot on the inner tie rod lasted less than one year before it had play (noticed when it would chatter on the highway).
 

WillR

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2001
Location
Honey Brook, PA
I would replace the torn boot as soon as possible or you will be replacing the inner tie rod, it doesn't take much water and dirt to ruin the inner tie rod I had one that was replaced and the mechanic left a torn boot on the inner tie rod lasted less than one year before it had play (noticed when it would chatter on the highway).
It's the outer tie rod end boot that split. Not the one on the rack.
 

1.9 TDI Awd

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Location
Marquette, Michigan
TDI
2000 TDI Golf 5spd
On the removal of the old strut I jacked up my passenger tierod outter. $17 later I had a greasable moog tierod end. Now I feel I should replace the drivers side one so I can grease them both. Plus its froze up on the drivers side. Have 13 threads driverside showing out of the tierod, and 17 pass side. Might be why my steering wheel is off by 10*degrees. Needed a realignment before the new suspension anyways.
 

deter7

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Location
Miramichi, NB
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
My new suspension is doing great. No noise (even on speed bumps).
First thing I noticed was the MPG went way down! then I noticed riding in the rain, if the RF wheel hydroplaned, the car would shoot to the R, If LS hydroplaned the car would shoot to the left. Lets think about this. I raised the car 2", which should not change camper, but it will change toe. Must be toed in way to far. Throw my home made alignment equipment on the car and found 1/2" toe in :eek:. fixed that and mounted the new Kumho's. Man it's a different car now.

But the tie adjustments were frozen. When I turned the big nut it broke the rubber boot on the tie rod. No play in the joints but now that boot is broken I got to replace them (at $11.00 each I should have done it right the first time). well it will wait until March or April before State Inspection is due. :D

WillR

I just completed basically the same upgrades as you with about the same results. Only difference I also installed an evolution 1" lift. I had the car aligned and they found it toed in. Car handled better after the alignment but still not the way it use to. Took it back and had the alignment checked as mine had settled about 3/4" and it was now toed out slightly. They rectified this and now it still doesn't handle the way it used to. I am very happy with the extra height but not sure where to go from here with trying to get the handling back. Anyone with suggestions, they would be appriciated.
Thanks
Deter7
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
If you raise the car significantly you're going to have more positive camber when you're going straight. It'll feel less responsive on turn-in, and feel like it has less grip in mild to moderate cornering. As the car rolls and the suspension compresses you'll get more negative camber which improves grip and feel. Do you have the alignment report? What was the camber setting?

Unfortunately you can't increase camber beyond using any available play in the ball joint bolts. You could try camber plates to increase negative camber. But odds are the car doesn't have any less ultimate grip, it just doesn't feel as good.
 

1.9 TDI Awd

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Location
Marquette, Michigan
TDI
2000 TDI Golf 5spd
I know that doing a inner axle rear sway bar at the same time made my golf oversteerable. Used to feel dead and floaty. Now I can get the back to cut! First highway lane change I did !as extreme and over responsive in comparison to before. Such a difference. I had bought from vortex a Shine RSB. U can find them all over. I highly reccommend a rear sway bar7
 

nokivasara

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Location
Sweden @ Lat 61N
TDI
Tiguan 4-motion, Golf mk7
I had both of our TDIs standing next to each other and noticed that the Skoda was sitting higher even though the strut mounts are completely shot, so I looked up the ground clearence stated in the owners manuals and got a surprice!
The manual states the ground clearence with the car fully laden, ie driver + 4 passangers and luggage.
Golf = 102mm
Octavia = 137mm
35mm difference, which is IMO just what the Golf needs, 2" lift is too tall and 1" is just on the low side :D

This is quite interesting since the Octavia is based on a A4 Golf, struts, control arms etc should be identical. Maybe they just have different springs?
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
I installed the Moog springs and Koni FSD's with all new hardware in my 03 Jetta to replace the OEM items with 170k miles.

I also changed from 205/70/15's on steel wheels to 215/50/17's on aluminum wheels which are ~3/8" shorter in overall diameter and feel a couple pounds heavier (using my calibrated arm :))

Measurements from the ground to the top of the fender arches - the car has ~700 miles on it since the suspension install.
Before:
26-3/4" Front
27-1/4" Rear

After:
27-1/2" Front - ~3/4" Lift
28-1/4" Rear - ~1" Lift

It rides and drives both much tighter/firmer while being smoother at the same time. I'm very happy with it.

It has a slight nose down stance to it and the wheels are more/less centered in the wheel arches (which is a look that I really like). I have not taken a picture of the car itself yet - need to do that one of these days.

It should not sag near as much with heavier loads and trailer pulling though I have not tested it out yet.

Unless these springs break or go flat quickly, they seem like a really good value for those of us who don't want to lower their cars, but want a bit more suspension "beef"


Here's the front spring (Moog 81134)


And it's wire diameter


Stock Front Spring Wire Diameter - 2P1G





The rear springs - Moog 81055



And it's wire diameter



Stock rear spring wire diameter- 1P3G
 

miketoth1979

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 21, 2010
Location
Ohio
TDI
2001 Golf TDI GLS
Thanks for the pics and the spring diameters Fix Until Broke. I was hoping someone would measure those!

I have put about 20k on the blausport/MOOG setup now and have no complaints.
 

jsillars

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Location
Olympia, WA
TDI
98 TDI sold
Great thread!! Question re: the MOOG springs. Looking on Rock Auto I don't see any difference in part numbers for engines or styles across the A4 platform. Am I looking in the wrong place? Trying to find a cheaper way to get the "level" reverse rake look of Shine springs as mine are rusting out :(.
 

1.9 TDI Awd

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Location
Marquette, Michigan
TDI
2000 TDI Golf 5spd
how is it that Fix until broke is sitting so level? by the way it looks great, i realy envy your stance. i need more clearance on the front end please.

Would an easy/simple solution be to add a 10mm spacer in the front? any other recommendations?
it is my DD as well as weekend autocross/ rally cross vehicle. i kind of like the lower front for autocross, however i dont like it nearly as much durring Rallycross.
 

1.9 TDI Awd

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Location
Marquette, Michigan
TDI
2000 TDI Golf 5spd
Hmm, only difference I see in material used is im runnin Blauparts vr6 refresh, not fsd's. I will use your measurements against my car at lunch today(few thousad miles on since I measured originally). I will reflect back and quote my original hieght measurements too.

Fix untill broke, just wondering what your cabin load/trunk load /fuel load in the picture and durring measurement time. Approx, no science behind, just curious of your cars "extra" weight, hehe
Thanks
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
The car weighs ~3400 lb with a full load of fuel, me (180 lb), and all the usual junk I carry around in the car. It has a steel skidplate, steel hitch on the back, 4" exhaust with 2) 4" mufflers, steel 3" TIP, 35lb clutch, DRW 6 speed, etc so all the little things add up. I didn't have anything "extra" in the car
 

1.9 TDI Awd

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Location
Marquette, Michigan
TDI
2000 TDI Golf 5spd
hahaha, more tear down in wieght than i knew to count in for weight. thank you, i was hoping you were bone dry empty. since your vehicle is sitting so level (close to), thank you for explaining your weight.

only wheight adders i have is usual cabin things, papers, ipod.etc, then the 300 lbs of stereo in my trunk. alpine R 15", enclosure, 4 extra 6x9s, two amps. me and fuel i gather as a giveaway.
searching for the tape measure still...
 
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