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Old March 3rd, 2012, 14:13   #16
truman
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I would much rather have a lifetime belt than a lifetime chain setup.
It would seem like this engine opens the door for a smaller version.
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Old March 3rd, 2012, 14:26   #17
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The new Mazda 3 gas is rated for similar fuel economy to the TDI, 58MPG highway (Imperial gallons). Any new engines will have to improve FE to be competitive. Mazda are also bringing a diesel, if their gas car gets 58MPG, what will the diesel do?

The average fuel economy on both my VW's went up when I chipped them, about 1.0 MPG in both the 1.9TDI and the 1.8T. The chip gave 25% higher HP and torque on both. So why not get better fuel economy with more HP and torque? Corvette's have improved MPG while increasing the power with every increase in HP, you might have to keep your foot out of it to get the bigger numbers though.

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Old March 3rd, 2012, 15:14   #18
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The chips also disabled some emissions controls, which improved efficiency.

Also, VW will make 140 hp versions of this engine, it's just that the top of the line will be 190 hp. Right now, it's 180 hp, in the T5 Transporter 2.0 BiTDI.

We'll probably never see the 190 hp version. We probably won't even see a 170 hp version.
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The really cool ToofTek made "Emperor's Clothes" injector fork risers only worked until someone pointed out that there wasn't any thing there.
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Old March 3rd, 2012, 18:46   #19
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Just put one in a US model Tiguan, will ya VW???
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Old March 3rd, 2012, 22:04   #20
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And what happens to mpg when the hp "surges" from 140 to 190? This is a familiar theme - at least in the American market. Continue to super-size until you forget the point of a particular vehicle design. Sounds like it is about time to get one of those small 3 cylinder TDIs ready to replace the four in many of it's applications.
I'm 90% sure the 140 hp engine is NOT going to be upgraded to 190. I read the same press release car and driver sees and the writer read it wrong. According to the release, gains will be "up to" 12% and "as much as" 26%. 140-190 is 36%.

The max power of 190 will probably be for the 170hp GTD engine, not the 140 hp engine currently sold in the US. Not saying it's not coming to the US, just saying the 140 hp engine will probably end up "up to" 12% and "as much as" 26% so I'm guessing 150-155 hp.
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Old March 3rd, 2012, 22:10   #21
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Note that there's 105 and 110 kW power levels shown for EU4 and EU6 2.0 TDIs. (Not sure which one goes with which engine, though.)

That maps to 141 and 150 hp.
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Quote:
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The really cool ToofTek made "Emperor's Clothes" injector fork risers only worked until someone pointed out that there wasn't any thing there.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 04:23   #22
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So the new 190 HP motor won't be available in the US because of emissions?
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Old March 4th, 2012, 04:59   #23
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Most likely no - it only meets EU5, and EU6 isn't even as strict as the US Tier 2 Bin 5 standards.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lug_Nut View Post
The really cool ToofTek made "Emperor's Clothes" injector fork risers only worked until someone pointed out that there wasn't any thing there.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 05:13   #24
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Originally Posted by truman View Post
I would much rather have a lifetime belt than a lifetime chain setup.
It would seem like this engine opens the door for a smaller version.
There have been many doors opened to smaller versions... all offered in Europe, but not in the US.

So many opportunities have been wasted, as newer technology has opened the door to engines generating similar horsepower/torque spec, with much better fuel economy, AND lower emissions.

CR platform in Europe is amazing in 1.2 Blue Motion, but even the 1.6L 4 cylinder CR is a fuel economy champ compared to what the US gets.

To VW...Make the fuel system bullet proof (or at least design for fail without catastrophe), and make much smaller options available in US market. Because if GM's diesel Volt gets made/offered, I think I will just throw in for it. What the heck. It is worth supporting the idea.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 06:36   #25
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Quote from caranddriver.com:
"Also, as with the EA211 gas engines, a belt that never requires replacement drives the camshafts."

Xuchen > How's that possible?

It's all in how you define "never". The current TDI timing belt is described as "lifetime" by VW, but lasts a max of 150,000 miles.

I'd be surprised if this new belt lasted any longer, and suggesting that belts need no attention is going to cause many owners to destroy their engines.

What I don't seem to find in this announcement is what the fuel system is. If this is using the same total self-destruct HPFP design of the current CRs, the mpg considerations are somewhat secondary.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 06:49   #26
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VW isn't going to admit that there ever was a problem with the CR fuel pumps unless NHTSA forces them to do so. But don't think for a moment that they internally aren't aware that there is an issue. A more likely course of action will be that the pump is quietly changed to an improved design (and this may have already happened - we have no way of knowing). Note that the intercooler-freezing issue has been permanently fixed, because all of the new modular engine series are using an air-to-water intercooler.

I'm rather suspect of the "lifetime" timing belt, too. But at least at first glance, it doesn't look any harder to change than for the current models. (It's not inside the crankcases and lubricated by oil, the way the new Ford 1.0 Ecoboost is ...)
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Old March 4th, 2012, 08:09   #27
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Quote:
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VW isn't going to admit that there ever was a problem with the CR fuel pumps unless NHTSA forces them to do so. But don't think for a moment that they internally aren't aware that there is an issue. A more likely course of action will be that the pump is quietly changed to an improved design (and this may have already happened - we have no way of knowing). Note that the intercooler-freezing issue has been permanently fixed, because all of the new modular engine series are using an air-to-water intercooler.

I'm rather suspect of the "lifetime" timing belt, too. But at least at first glance, it doesn't look any harder to change than for the current models. (It's not inside the crankcases and lubricated by oil, the way the new Ford 1.0 Ecoboost is ...)
Keep in mind, VW has gone along with the shorter 'lifespan" of their vehicles in Europe as 7 to 8 years between disposal of cars. Also keep in mind that with the price of fuel in Europe, and the size, the distances driven are not as large as those in the USA. So, in VW's eyes, 150k miles may very well be a life time for the car, and the folks in North America will just have to adjust their expectations lower. We'll still need to change the timing belt and other rubber products, like hoses, etc. And EGRs, and turbos, and DPF's.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 08:38   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chittychittybangbang View Post
I'm 90% sure the 140 hp engine is NOT going to be upgraded to 190. I read the same press release car and driver sees and the writer read it wrong. According to the release, gains will be "up to" 12% and "as much as" 26%. 140-190 is 36%.
The max power of 190 will probably be for the 170hp GTD engine, not the 140 hp engine currently sold in the US. Not saying it's not coming to the US, just saying the 140 hp engine will probably end up "up to" 12% and "as much as" 26% so I'm guessing 150-155 hp.
I want to read the official press release (or have access to the source of CarandDriver Blog) to check everything.

Someone has the Internet link?

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Old March 4th, 2012, 09:20   #29
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Wonder how robust the fuel system will be?
Probably about the same, but I guarantee that they'll be provisions that in the event of an HPFP failure will keep it from ruining the whole thing.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 09:42   #30
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Everything is in balance. FE and driving pleasure. European vehicle enthusiasts love its road holding. I think at 190HP and 280 lb-ft seem the perfect balance. FE and driving pleasure.

Otherwise, there are other choices, like the Prius and Chevy Volt if driving pleasure is not important to you.
I don't believe it is that simple. My TDI Jetta (100 hp) is more enjoyable for me to drive than previous Japanese sedans. And a 190 hp Chevy Volt would still feel like a Chevy Volt. If acceleration and speed are what you want - go for it. Just don't consider that the only measure of how a car feels or handles. And if fuel economy is one's priority, I have no idea why you said that 190 hp provides the perfect balance. Lots of different vehicles out there and lots of personal preferences.
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