NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

[pknopp]

Originally Posted by dweisel

We really won't know what revisions have been made until someone gets inside of an 11'/12 hpfp or the hpfp on the 2012 Passat. Or if the NHSTA Investigation reveals this info.

You've been dealing with this far longer than me. I just like to see things with my own eyes.

[scdevon]

Dweisel has a good grip on how these pumps fail.

First, there are momentary seizures between the piston and the aluminum bore. When this happens, the piston roller loses clockwise / counterclockwise orientation with the cam lobe. The piston roller slams back into contact with the cam lobe in an out of orientation position with 1/10th the contact area that it's designed to have resulting in microscopic flat spots on the roller and cam.

Second, the aluminum that is galled off of the cylinder bore migrates to the pump's crankcase where it comes between the cam and roller resulting in small hot spots from metal to metal contact with no film of lubrication.

The rest is a slippery slope of metal to metal contact which ultimately results in shredded pump internals. If you gall the internals of this pump even once, it's GAME OVER. It's just a question of how soon.

Like someone said. "Lubricity, lubricity, lubricity".

[dweisel]

Originally Posted by pknopp

You've been dealing with this far longer than me. I just like to see things with my own eyes.

Hopefully we will eventually know more about the failures.It may take awhile IF the NHTSA doesn't throw us any information.

Next failed pump I get to take apart you can see one with your own eyes. We're not that far away from each other.

[Claudio]

dweisel was using religiously additive (PS?) and B5, and had two failure...lubricity is not the definitive answer (but it does help a lot)

[pknopp]

Originally Posted by dweisel

Hopefully we will eventually know more about the failures.It may take awhile IF the NHTSA doesn't throw us any information.

Next failed pump I get to take apart you can see one with your own eyes. We're not that far away from each other.

I would like that. Thanks.

[NateTDI]

Originally Posted by Claudio

dweisel was using religiously additive (PS?) and B5, and had two failure...lubricity is not the definitive answer (but it does help a lot)

Is it possible these additives contributed to the failures? Just asking.

[Absolute Diesel]

Originally Posted by Claudio

dweisel was using religiously additive (PS?) and B5, and had two failure...lubricity is not the definitive answer (but it does help a lot)

Thank you. Qft - I also had a failure with b5

[dubStrom]

I appreciate the level of attention here. The real problem is VW will never "admit" there ever was a real problem. So if a newer design is really more robust, and MORE importantly, fails without catastrophic fuel system contamination (metal flakes), we won't get a fair heads up.

What I would like to do is buy a new design that WON'T fill the entire fuel system with metal flakes if it does fail. I mean, fuel pumps do fail, and I do not mind replacing one at some point.

But to be faced with replacing fuel lines or other parts that are buried under stuff that was installed later on in manufacturing to the tune of many thousands of dollars, this is really bad.

Fowl=bird, oops

[Lightflyer1]

If the fuel system "fowls" you really have problems!

[DEZLBOY]

Originally Posted by dubStrom

The real problem is VW will never "admit" there ever was a real problem. So if a newer design is really more robust, and MORE importantly, fails without catastrophic fuel system fowling, we won't get a fair heads up.

Agreed. Until a class action suit is won, and VW has to send out notices to those with the problematic pumps with an extended warranty. Personally I think extended warranty should be the life of the car and transferable due to the expensive repairs.

Maybe owners of new (future?) VWs won't get the notices because the pumps have been fixed. Or maybe the class action suit won't cover newer years. Or maybe VW will come out with a better pump (but is would take year(s) for the pumps to illustrate per way less failures, that the problem was fixed.

[madmako]

NHTSA investigations can take awhile as evidenced by this somewhat dated article:

http://www.autoobserver.com/2010/02/...procedure.html

I'd guess it's going to be awhile before this thread finally takes a turn.

[MPBsr]

Originally Posted by DEZLBOY

Agreed. Until a class action suit is won, and VW has to send out notices to those with the problematic pumps with an extended warranty. Personally I think extended warranty should be the life of the car and transferable due to the expensive repairs.

Maybe owners of new (future?) VWs won't get the notices because the pumps have been fixed. Or maybe the class action suit won't cover newer years. Or maybe VW will come out with a better pump (but is would take year(s) for the pumps to illustrate per way less failures, that the problem was fixed.

The only thing a class action does is makes the lawyers rich and you get a $10 coupon to Dunkin Donuts.

[madmako]

Originally Posted by MPBsr

The only thing a class action does is makes the lawyers rich and you get a $10 coupon to Dunkin Donuts.

So True!

[Niner]

This is a good example why you don't want to run your fuel tank low on a CR diesel and risk cavitation, and lack of lubricity of your HPFP.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujoka...layer_embedded

[Claudio]

i wonder why it is taking this long...