Where to stop?

Keebler145

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Niles, Ohio
TDI
Jetta MKIV 2000, 2003, and MKV 2006 PD DSG
outstanding fub, they are the same size then (almost) as the vr6 ones. Thank you for that.

as for the head and deck being resurfaced. No worries. Had my head resurfaced several times along with the block. I then installed pd150 pistons and still had clearance with a 3 hole head gasket. I think franko6 knocked a little off the top of my valves IIRC but it wasn't much if he did at all.

Either way I measured up piston protrusion and I had just a little wiggle room. Not sure what I would do if the three hole head gasket wouldn't have worked.

The unanimus (sp?) answer was shave the top of the pistons but I wasn't really game for weakening the piston especially after I've melted/crack/destroyed at least 3 different sets!
 

Ben Dur

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Pensacola FL
TDI
2000 VW golf tdi
Custom gasket?
I saw something on this a few months ago but the overwhelming consensus was that is wasn't worth/necessary/reliable
 

Ben Dur

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Pensacola FL
TDI
2000 VW golf tdi
Oh, i was just thinking about Keebler's statement "i dont know what ill do when 3 holes isnt enough anymore."

Yes, i agree. Not the way to take car of it. Do the math, but im sure you'll be fine with a 3 hole.
 

Keebler145

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Niles, Ohio
TDI
Jetta MKIV 2000, 2003, and MKV 2006 PD DSG
I think at that point the only option is different pistons, customs rods, or start with a new block/head. I dunno though.
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
Here's some bling...Rostens and PD150 ARL's with Swain Tech Ceramic Coating








The ceramic coating is relatively fragile - The coating goes down to the top ring land and I scratched the side of the piston installing one of the rings that slipped and it scratched pretty easily. Hopefully it's not just gold rustoleum :)




 
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shakescreek

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Location
B.C. Canada
TDI
18'6" welded aluminum jetboat with pd160, gtb2056vl, and tuning by rub87, 2003 chev blazer with bhw swap, 2000 jetta alh with gtd1752 vrk, .240 injectors, 11mm pump, fmic, 6 spd manual
Lookin good, as long as you are doing ceramic I would suggest doing the combustion surface and valve faces on the head, the inside of the exhaust ports, the exhaust manifold, and the turbo exhaust housing. I did all of the above(plus pistons of course) some years ago on a mitsubishi turbodiesel I had in my boat, and it made a significant difference in both power and economy. Also prior to the coating I could overheat the engine if I ran it to hard as my heat exchanger was on the smallish side for that engine. After the coating I could not get the coolant temperature high no matter how hard I ran it. I actually had to run it harder than normal just to get the gauge up normal operating temperature. The stuff definitely works for keeping the heat where you want it.
 

Keebler145

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Niles, Ohio
TDI
Jetta MKIV 2000, 2003, and MKV 2006 PD DSG
yeah but that's probably beyond what fub wants to go.

Fub where did you get those pistons? They sure do look nice, good choice!
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
I thought about ceramic coating more things, but the pistons seemed to be the biggest "bang for the buck". Seeing the cracked exhaust port that keaton showed in post 138, maybe I should have done the ports and combustion surfaces of the cylinder head, but we'll see how it goes. I'm not concerned about the exhaust manifold/turbo, though it would be nice to do to reduce underhood temps.

Pistons came from Bora Parts (PD150 ARL's) and then were sent to Swain Tech for their "Gold Coat Ceramic Armor" coating

Swain Tech said:
As the use of Nitrous, Turbo Chargers and Super Chargers have become common place; Swain Tech developed GoldCoat™ Ceramic Armor™ to protect piston tops in these demanding motors. GoldCoat™ offers the same benefits of TBC™, but adds an extra layer of extra high temperature ceramic to provide even more protection at higher temperatures. GoldCoat™ deals with the heat spikes and thermal shock of boosted motors better than any other piston coating.
 

Ben Dur

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Pensacola FL
TDI
2000 VW golf tdi
you expressed brief concern over the ceramic coating being "fragile"

Im sure you know this but the idea isn't for it to resist wear, the idea is to resist heat transfer. Im sure the company isnt using rustoleum (at least not a consumer grade)

Just cheering you on here. Im sure you've already been through this thought process.
=D

Thumbs Up!
 

Ben Dur

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Pensacola FL
TDI
2000 VW golf tdi
I ceramic coated the exterior of my exhaust manifold/turbine housing with a consumer grade "flame proof" VHT ceramic coating, and heat treated it as directed. Here i am 2000 miles later, a number of heat cycles, and pushing EGT around 1300. Its holding up just fine. If you want to do it just to help reduce underhood temp, this is an option. It wont affect anything if it does go south on you.

however i dont actually know how effective it is.

=D
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
I have hard and brittle in mind when I think of ceramics, but when the coating is only a few tenths (0.0001") thick, it's probably a bit fragile. I'm not knocking their product at all, just thinking "out loud"

At the moment I just want to get it back together and running (I like my truck, but miss my car) - I can ceramic coat the turbo most any time in the future if I want to.

I'll hopefully get the intake and exhaust manifolds ported this weekend. Next weekend, if all goes well get the head and block machined along with all the head work done (seats, valves, re-assembly, etc), get the engine re-assembled and ready to install in the car. It will be a long weekend with a lot of things needing to go my way to get that far.
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
fub, what was the outside diameter of the valve guide? I'm actually in process of making one for a 12v vr6 but I wouldn't mind making it universal for the TDI head as I still seem to work on those quite a bit.

I actually have a tool for reinstalling the valve guides for the ALH, I had my uncle EDM a ring out of a steel rod so the guides edge was supported while I pressed on the "collar" of the guide. It worked pretty well and was good for keeping the guide straight/square.

I do like your 3/8drive socket technique too though ;)

edit: I don't know why I never bothered to measure the OD of the alh valve guide when installing them heh, and after doing a little leg work didn't seem to find it.
I found this picture and thought of you :)

 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
I spent a few hours today porting the exhaust manifold and took some pictures. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. There is a lot of material in the flow path from the casting bumps put in the manifold for bolt clearance, both for the exhaust manifold and the intake manifold.

Ports 1 and 4 are pretty much identical, just mirrored. Ports 2 and 3 are uniquely different. There is one bump for intake bolt clearance that is just not accessable at all (between Ports 3 and 4), three that can be completely removed (Port 1, 4 and the one between Port 2 and the center) and two that can be partially removed (between Ports 1 and 2 and the one between Port 3 and the center)

Here's pictures of the ports before and after porting (I didn't get pictures of 4 before porting, but it looked just like Port 1)

Port 1 Unported - you can see the exhaust manifold bumps on the right and left of the picture and the intake bump on the left of the picture just above the other bump.


All gone



Port 2 - Unported - Looks similar to #1, but there's a nice short curve where it transitions in with port 1 and an intake bolt bump behind that curve. You can get the one you can see in the picture completely and about 2/3rd's of the one you can't see.


There's also some nice blending that can be done into the center portion on the way to the turbine



Port 3 Unported - Similar to Port 2, but the port is ~twice as long and has more curve to it - harder to get all the way down to the bottom and around the corner.


Port 3 Ported


Port 4 Ported



Here is the pile of chips from Port 4 (the dark pile)


There's really not very much change in the port size, maybe 1/16" of an inch at the face most in some areas of some ports to more/less match the gasket. 90% of the material is getting rid of all the bumps for bolt clearance.

Tomorrow - Intake manifolds
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
Bench in my basement - came with the house


Air Compressor - Moved into basement for this task only. It usually lives in the garage. It's got 0w30 506.01 Elf Evolution CRV in it - starts up just fine at 0F :).
More than enough compressor for this and relatively quiet. $400 about 5 years ago on sale at Sears.


Right angle die grinder and carbide burr set.
Snap-On PT210 - I've used cheap $20 die grinders and for a lot of jobs they're just fine, but for something like this or head porting I like more control. This is a 1/2 HP 22,000 RPM and has plenty of torque to run at not full throttle and pull through, nice and linear power delivery with more "throttle" without being on/off like the cheap ones.

The double cut carbide burr set is from McMaster Carr (4308A31 16pc $209). The only ones I really used are the ones that are in the grinder and on the table. 1/2" diameter 1" long cylinder with radius end $25 (in grinder) and the 1/2" diameter 1-1/8" long 14 degree taper radius end $24 (on table).

These burrs work just fine on aluminum with just a little of this "cutting wax" also from McMaster (1379K63 $10.83). A full stick will last a lifetime - I didn't use a thimble full (literally) doing all of the cylinder head.


I bought a sanding roll kit from McMaster (4690A91 $70) and some 6" long arbors but really didn't use them much nor would I recommend them. It's nice for cleaning up some rough areas, but it's really only visual.
The 1" cylindrical flap disk sanding drum is very handy, particularly for cleaning up after the die grinder in the aluminum head ports. The one I got below (right below the box with blue flaps) sucks and didn't last more than 5 minutes. Get this one instead from McMaster (3393A111)


With the above tools it comes down to patience and perserverence (sp?). Take your time and don't try to rush it. Use your fingers and get the port to "feel" the shape you want - it's like hand/eye coordination, but it's really finger/visualization - you have to be able to "see" with your fingers as you run them in/out of the ports to know where to remove material to get it to feel the way you want. Do one port at a time so you have a un-touched reference to see how far you're going and compare ports often. Once you have two ports done, compare them to each other and make them the same as best as you can feel (don't worry about how it looks, but how it feels), continue until they're all done. For ports that are "mirrored" (1 & 2 Exhaust vs 3 & 4 Exhaust), use your left and right hands at the same time in the ports to compare - so that when one port turns in, so does the other but in the other direction.

I don't claim to know much of anything about this - I don't have a flow bench or anything to quantify what I'm doing or even to see if I'm making things better or worse. I'm just doing what seems right to me - Questions, comments and suggestions are very welcomed
 

Satiro

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Location
Spain
TDI
IBIZA 1.9TDI 110hp AFN 1998
Thanks a lot for those pictures!
For a head exhaust side porting work, can i use a Dremel tool?
My air compressor is too little (i think) for a tool like showed by you above.
Thanks in advance,:)
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
You can use a dremel, but you'll be there forever. I have at least 2 hours in each exhaust port, you'll have double/triple that with a dremel. Make sure you keep the speed slow as well - I doubt I ever got over 10k rpm - it helps stay in control and keep the bits from getting clogged up.

See if you can find any way to get more storage volume for your compressor (bigger or additional tank from an old compressor that does not work maybe?). There's not a lot of continuious grinding work - Grind for 20 seconds, check the port for 10 seconds, etc so a little compressor can catch up on the down time. Believe it or not, it's tiring tedious work so a break to let the compressor catch up and stretch the neck muscles is welcome :)
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
Excellent post! This is exactly the kind of information this forum needs. I will have to order up some burrs and other supplies I don't have and finish up my intake I started on.
 

Satiro

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Location
Spain
TDI
IBIZA 1.9TDI 110hp AFN 1998
You can use a dremel, but you'll be there forever. I have at least 2 hours in each exhaust port, you'll have double/triple that with a dremel. Make sure you keep the speed slow as well - I doubt I ever got over 10k rpm - it helps stay in control and keep the bits from getting clogged up.

See if you can find any way to get more storage volume for your compressor (bigger or additional tank from an old compressor that does not work maybe?). There's not a lot of continuious grinding work - Grind for 20 seconds, check the port for 10 seconds, etc so a little compressor can catch up on the down time. Believe it or not, it's tiring tedious work so a break to let the compressor catch up and stretch the neck muscles is welcome :)
What pressure need that tool for working with an air compressor? Thanks for your words,:)
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
The tool is rated at 90 psi (~6 bar) but my compressor runs at 150 psi (~10 bar). Running it at my friends shop at 200 psi (14 bar) didn't run any differently - I probably just used less "throttle" though with higher inlet pressure.
 

Satiro

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Location
Spain
TDI
IBIZA 1.9TDI 110hp AFN 1998
My air compressor runs 8 bar max with 7 cfm of air... I saw a few tools that works with 6 bar and 4 cfm...hope that works! Thanks again for that info
 
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Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
Pictures from the intake manifold port matching that I did yesterday...

The intake ports on the cylinder head matched the intake gasket almost perfectly. The little gaps that you see where the gasket looks bigger than the port are due to the gasket not being flat on the head. There's just a sliver on the top two corners that could be trimmed, but I didn't touch it.


The ALH intake ports don't line up with the same gasket quite as well, but not horrible all things considered.



All the intake ports pretty much look the same before and after porting so I'll only show pictures of port 1. The rest are in my photo gallery if you're interested in seeing them.

Port 1 Unported


Port 1 UnPorted view "up" the port



Port 1 Port Matched


The ports on this manifold are very short and are basically just a 90 degree elbow from the plenum of the manifold to the face of the head.

The ports were englarged to meet the gasket from the face back up around the outside of the bend. The goal was a smooth transition from the plenum to the intake port of the head. I treated it as an extension of the intake port as much as I could without having to get the welder out.

The top side of the port was left untouched except for removing a couple casting burrs.

Not a huge ammount of material removed, but it cleaned up nice and I only have an hour or so in it. It shouldn't hurt anything which is my main concern on the intake side of things.






The SDI intake was quite a bit different. With it's long curved rectangular runners, bolt clearance bumps and gross port mismatching, there was a lot of work to do on this one. Maybe this explains why it was 10HP short compared to the ALH one?







You can't completely remove the mounting bolt castings bumps on some of the ports, but they can be smoothed out some. The floor of the port is also pretty flat even though the face of the port is D shaped. With all the material that needed to be removed on the floor I made the D shape transition from the face all the way back to the rectangle port nice and gradual. Similar to the ALH intake, I treated this as an extension of the intake port on the cylinder head and tried to transition from the D shape to the rectangular runner as smoothly as possible.

Lots of material removed on these ports...but there was a lot of mismatch and they're really deep ports.


Ported pictures in the next post...
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
SDI Port 1 UnPorted This is the only straight port - all the others curve to the left (as viewed from the pictures below)


SDI Port 1 Ported



SDI Port 2 UnPorted


SDI Port 2 Ported


SDI Port 3 UnPorted


SDI Port 3 Ported


SDI Port 4 UnPorted


SDI Port 4 Ported
 

Ben Dur

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Location
Pensacola FL
TDI
2000 VW golf tdi
That does look better:)...
This makes me wonder if the sdi head ports are actually a bit different from the tdi.

I assume you have plans on revisiting your 'dyno test comparison' sometime after reassembly?
 

Curious Chris

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 11, 2001
Location
Pineview GA
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 RIP Rockford IL
Are you going to add a FMIC to your list? Remember Platteville where I eked out a little more power and the only real difference was my FMIC. Why stop now....:)
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
I had that thought, but my main objective now is to get it back together and running - this 12 MPG truck is killing me. I don't know how all those people I see driving trucks and SUV's do it week after week. Truck holds 36 gallons and I still fill it twice as often as the Jetta.

Seeing how easy it is to get the front bumper off and work in that area makes it much easier to do than I anticipated which was part of my reluctance to do it.

The other thing that I'm still standing by is IAT data - with the exception of the dyno pulls and sustained 100% throttle runs, IAT's just don't get over 20-30F above ambient and typically 10F. When I was pounding the crap out of it with my last trailer load IAT's were 80-90F and ambient was 30F and this is running 20-22 psi continuiously for an hour. I think once you get over 20 psi the compressor efficiency really falls off and generates a lot more heat without moving much more mass air so the dyno pulls at 28 psi get much hotter than the normal operating conditions.

I'll give it a "maybe, but not right now"
 
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