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General VW Discussion This is a place for General VW topics (the company, not your vehicle). General topics about a specific vehicle should be posted in the General TDI Dicussion Forum sections for that vehicle platform. A4, A3 & B4, B5, etc.

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Old August 27th, 2011, 17:15   #31
IndigoBlueWagon
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Well said. I love it when folks bring up GM's diesels who weren't even alive when they were on the market. And it wasn't just the American hatchbacks that were bad: the sedans and coupes weren't wonderful, either.
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Old August 27th, 2011, 17:49   #32
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Time for me to vent. It has been almost 35 years since Olds offered its diesels, and thirty years since the really bad hatchbacks were around. Americans are "selectively moronic." They will dredge up issues from 30 years ago so as not to even consider anything beyond their TOYONDA CANARY BLASE GL BROUGHAM with "command seating" for their big fat a$$es! They don't say "I could never drive a front wheel drive car because I remember the CORDS and FRANKLINS had problems with front wheel drive." The sooner we admit that most of our fellow Americans are, as the French say in the movie European Vacation, "typical American A$$holes" the better off we will all be. P.S. they are also too helpless, or too stupid to SHIFT, but they will apply for a MORTGAGE using the text feature on their phone while driving! How did these people trick someone into breeding with them? Oh, wait, they found each other and bred!
I <3 this. If it ain't an ASSuV that has 24 cup holders and gets 13 mpg, those stupid Americans don't want it. I'll keep buying 10 year old German cars, like my Princess wagon--where I consider a refill when the trip says 900 (that was "spirited" driving with the A/C running for a majority of those miles...) they can have them. Just don't come near my cars.
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Old August 27th, 2011, 18:50   #33
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Don't look now but none of your cars is 10 years old. 12-15 is more like it. :-)
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Old August 27th, 2011, 21:46   #34
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Now that I have cooled down,, even if a person did NOT believe in global warming, and even if they do NOT believe in peak oil, you would think that the COST of driving something that gets a third of our mileage would be enough of an incentive to go to a more efficient vehicle. I know a young man where I work, and he is quite capable and intelligent. Yet,he is driving a 19 mpg truck, and, from what I can calculate, is dropping $250 a month just to drive to work, let alone any extra driving. But, he has the other memory problem:"reverse memory." This is where the same people who remember everything about the Olds diesel, suddenly have NO memory of repeated fuel spikes over the last 30 years. They also act as if there have NEVER been economical cars available for purchase. How many times has someone said to you, "wow, 30 (or 40, or 50) miles per gallon; I DIDNT KNOW THEY MADE CARS LIKE THAT, when did THEY come out?"
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Old August 28th, 2011, 18:08   #35
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While we enjoy diesel, and appeciate it for what it does for us, some people can't get beyond the "diesel costs more" argument. When I mention I fill up every 3-4 weeks, I have their interest.

To address your example above, maybe that young man actually LIKES his truck and doesn't mind the cost of that enjoyment. Besides, maybe he pulls a camper or boat on the weekends. You ever ask? Just b/c he drives a truck doesn't mean his intelligence should come into question. He may actually be impressed with your TDI's fuel economy, but being impressed doesn't mean he likes/wants to own one.

To stay on topic, after seeing pics of the new Polo, I would rather the Polo over the Golf. I wouldn't say "no TDI, no sale", but any powerplant would have to give similar fuel economy than my ALH to get me away from a TDI. I just don't see how/why VW would want to compromise their Golf sales. Perhaps the GTI could stay, the Golf TDI replaced by Polo TDI, with the Tiguan finally getting a TDI to fill in between the Polo and JSW.
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Old August 28th, 2011, 18:17   #36
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I don't know what did wagons in, maybe it was the Country Squire.
Minivans!
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Old August 28th, 2011, 23:32   #37
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Actually it was the 318ti that was the hatch. But, for BMW it was the marketed as the bottom of the barrel, with only the 1.8l four cylinder available, and drum brakes in the back. Had they offered a 325ti as well, the hatch might have sold better. BMW is uses this failed experiment as reason not to import the 1-series hatchback.
I always thought the reason that BMW hadn't met their sales goals with the 318ti was really an issue of public perception. Most people who are looking for a modestly priced car probably wouldn't go to a BMW dealership and I don't think BMW really got the word out there that they were selling a car for under $20k.

It is true that it only came with the 4 cylinder, but it still made 140hp or so which is completely acceptable even by todays standards. I'm not sure what you're talking about with rear drums though. Mine has disk brakes in the rear. Maybe some had drums? The nice thing about this car is that it is essentially a sedan from the firewall forward. Everything from the M3 bolts right into the front and in stock form it weighs about 250lbs less than the 318i sedan.
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Old August 29th, 2011, 03:58   #38
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It is true that it only came with the 4 cylinder, but it still made 140hp or so which is completely acceptable even by todays standards. I'm not sure what you're talking about with rear drums though. Mine has disk brakes in the rear. Maybe some had drums? The nice thing about this car is that it is essentially a sedan from the firewall forward. Everything from the M3 bolts right into the front and in stock form it weighs about 250lbs less than the 318i sedan.
I'll have to double-check my info on the rear drums. Is your 318ti a "Club Sport" model? That may be why you have rear discs. I may also be thinking of the E30 318i, but I'm pretty certain.

I agree with you, that the 318ti has a lot of potential for upgrade, and the 250 lbs lighter weight is also a good thing. I know of a few people who have done complete E36 M3 powertrain swaps into the 318ti, one of which was a formidable Pro Rally team in the late '90s.
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Old August 29th, 2011, 05:42   #39
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The irony here is that we WILL get a lot of these cars, and actually quite soon. The new government fuel economy standards will be a real incentive for all of the automakers to send over MPG leaders to push up their average mpg figures. I have been told often on this forum to "stay on topic." However, this is a case where government action will be a real catalyst to EXPAND consumer choice at the small end of the market. It may also save companies like Mazda, whose Sky-G and Sky-D technology will give them a real edge versus their "BORG" opponents (Toyota). Of course, the "government is ALWAYS wrong" crowd on this website could never admit that their might be a real benefit to the US having some sort of long term NATIONAL energy plan. However, it will soon be a moot point. Peak Oil will be forcing people into responsible vehicles very shortly. They will either change, or (financially) die. Simple how reality "proofs" ideology.
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Old August 29th, 2011, 06:12   #40
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what seperates it from the golf?
Size: The Polo is about the size of an A4 Golf. (a bit taller though)
Tech: The Polo has torsion beam rear suspension.
Price: A base Polo is about a third cheaper than a base Golf.
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Old August 29th, 2011, 10:48   #41
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I'll have to double-check my info on the rear drums. Is your 318ti a "Club Sport" model? That may be why you have rear discs. I may also be thinking of the E30 318i, but I'm pretty certain.

I agree with you, that the 318ti has a lot of potential for upgrade, and the 250 lbs lighter weight is also a good thing. I know of a few people who have done complete E36 M3 powertrain swaps into the 318ti, one of which was a formidable Pro Rally team in the late '90s.
I don't think mine is a club sport. I should probably figure that out. It wasn't a bare bones model, but it isn't an m-tech either. It actually has the S50 M3 engine with the brakes and full front suspension with offset bushings and whatnot. I can't honestly remember seeing a BMW with rear drums. I do think some of the TI's had solid front disks though.
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Old August 29th, 2011, 12:21   #42
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I don't think mine is a club sport. I should probably figure that out. It wasn't a bare bones model, but it isn't an m-tech either. It actually has the S50 M3 engine with the brakes and full front suspension with offset bushings and whatnot. I can't honestly remember seeing a BMW with rear drums. I do think some of the TI's had solid front disks though.
All 2002's, U.S. E21 (fist gen. 3-series) 320i, and E30 (2nd gen 3-series) 318i (at least the '84 & '85 M10 powered ones) had drum brakes. I don't know if the '90-'91 M42 powered 318i or 318is had discs or drums. And, I might be wrong about the 318ti having drums, but if a prior owner put the S50 in your car, they might have upgraded the brakes as well.
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Old August 29th, 2011, 12:27   #43
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All 2002's, U.S. E21 (fist gen. 3-series) 320i, and E30 (2nd gen 3-series) 318i (at least the '84 & '85 M10 powered ones) had drum brakes. I don't know if the '90-'91 M42 powered 318i or 318is had discs or drums. And, I might be wrong about the 318ti having drums, but if a prior owner put the S50 in your car, they might have upgraded the brakes as well.
They upgraded the front brakes, but as far as I know the rear is stock and I've been trying to find an upgrade solution for them. So far it seems the only option is M Coupe/Roadster trailing arms and brakes. For the 318ti they only list replacement rotors and a hardware kit used for the parking brake shoes.
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Old August 29th, 2011, 18:37   #44
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They upgraded the front brakes, but as far as I know the rear is stock and I've been trying to find an upgrade solution for them. So far it seems the only option is M Coupe/Roadster trailing arms and brakes. For the 318ti they only list replacement rotors and a hardware kit used for the parking brake shoes.
OK, if that is what listed, then they definitely only had discs on the rear.

Sorry for the off-topic discussion. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread (2013 VW Polo....).
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Old August 29th, 2011, 21:52   #45
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It's funny that I pop back on the site and see this thread... I actually saw one of the new Polo's being tested today. I live in Casa Grande AZ and we have a VW proving ground not far from here...

The color combo was a bit wacky, it was bright orange with black accent. I saw it approaching, with the VW badge clear as day, and when it turned into the Fry's parking lot, it clearly said Polo on the back. It was def a finished or nearly finished product. It had, what appeared to be Scirocco rims on it. The front end is styled close to the 2011 Jetta. I should have turned around and snapped a pic, but I only had an hour break before heading back to work.

On a side note, I've also seen maybe a dozen or so different 2012 Beetles in various trims on drives and pulling into the same lot for lunch, I have a thread about it around here somewhere....

Come to think of it, I think the Polo was follwed by a black beetle and the same Golf/GTI chopped test mule that is always in the fleet. It appears to be a 2010 Golf, but with flat black bumpers and 2006 GTI rims...

Anywho, thought I would share!
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