Is it worth Owning a TDI anymore?

straightliner

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Location
n.w.indiana
TDI
09 TDI Jetta
To me this is really not a mystery, as I run an apples to oranges, side by side comparison of an 04 Civic and 03 Jetta TDI. Probably more importantly (for what seems to be the topic and interest for this thread) LIKE miles (120,000 miles specificially) Fuel consumption for a daily commute (which is what the Civic was really bought for) 38-42 mpg. In the same commute, the 03 Jetta TDI posts 48-52 mpg. Any one can do the math here. To cut to the chase for the second part scheduled maintenance is cheaper for the Jetta TDI. Unscheduled maintenance for the Honda Civic has been both more frequent and more expensive.

The other thing is both have oem recommendaions of 10,000 miles intervals for both OCI's AND various "SCHEDULED" maintenance items. One can: 1. use a dealer 2. DIY, 3. independent garage 4. TDI or even Honda guru, 5. ala carte 6. etc. To make this easy, one can cite the exceptions or UNscheduled maintenance.
I am sure your Mk4 gets better mileage but we are talking about the Mk5 and more specificaly the CR (09)
I see you own both, I am curious about the mpg dif between the too?
 

ruking

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
I am sure your Mk4 gets better mileage but we are talking about the Mk5 and more specificaly the CR (09)
I see you own both, I am curious about the mpg dif between the too?
Well that is fine. How many 09/10/11 TDI's have 120,000 to 160,000 miles? Let alone 200,000, 300,000+ miles? You can project all you want. Who are posting those actuals? The issue (for me anyway) is how does it compare to the ACTUAL. My actual figures were actually BETTER than projected!! I of course gave you the actual. You do learn which items intervals you can stretch out. You can look at my signature for my TDI mpg figures. I didn't list the Civic figures for obvious reasons. So my 09 TDI at 22,000 miles is not even out of the warranty phase. The car has literally been flawless. Really however, so what? ANY car is engineered to do 100,000 miles with no to little issues.
 
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Losha

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG, 2001 Golf TDI, Audi S6, A8, Toureg
This is of topic not TDI related but thought I would share. Yesterday had a guy called me about his 01 Audi A6 4.2L it has over 100k on it already and needs some maintance done for its age and wanted to know about me bit and what I do. So after we chat bit and he said that he usually trades cars after couple years of ownership with no more then 60-80K miles on vehicle. This is first vehicle he is considering about keeping the car for while and spend some $$ on maintance then in couple years pass on to his kids, instead of spending another $30-45K on new car +maintance cost. He said even though its 10years old car but he still likes it very much, looks good for age, drives very good and its comfortable to drive compare to many vehicles he owned before.

I know this is gasser and lot more luxury vehicle and lot more expensive VAG car compare to TDI. My point is that even lets say TDI over lifetime cost more to own its still lot more to fun, safer, comfortable & luxuries vehicle to drive then many compared gass models that can achieve similar mpg. The above vehicle I mentioned is very expensive to maintan specially the 4.2L engine parts & labor cost are lot more then compared models, but the guy loves his car because you cant compare its performance for that age to like lexus or acura or toyota avalon or others.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
That era A6, especially with that sweet V8, is an awesome car. I take care of several of them.
 

ruking

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
This is of topic not TDI related but thought I would share. Yesterday had a guy called me about his 01 Audi A6 4.2L it has over 100k on it already and needs some maintance done for its age and wanted to know about me bit and what I do. So after we chat bit and he said that he usually trades cars after couple years of ownership with no more then 60-80K miles on vehicle. This is first vehicle he is considering about keeping the car for while and spend some $$ on maintance then in couple years pass on to his kids, instead of spending another $30-45K on new car +maintance cost. He said even though its 10years old car but he still likes it very much, looks good for age, drives very good and its comfortable to drive compare to many vehicles he owned before.

I know this is gasser and lot more luxury vehicle and lot more expensive VAG car compare to TDI. My point is that even lets say TDI over lifetime cost more to own its still lot more to fun, safer, comfortable & luxuries vehicle to drive then many compared gass models that can achieve similar mpg. The above vehicle I mentioned is very expensive to maintan specially the 4.2L engine parts & labor cost are lot more then compared models, but the guy loves his car because you cant compare its performance for that age to like lexus or acura or toyota avalon or others.
While this has always been true, car trade/sales are taxes that one WANTS to pay. I don't know what the sales tax rate is in SD, but here in Nor CA it can be has high as 10%. Here it is 9.25%. So on your example of $45,000. for a new car, taxes can be $4,163 to $4,500. you really have to ask what does ONE get for that? OK so he keeps it 5 years, that makes per year average of $900. Keep in mind CA is considering car fees in lieu of asset taxation. !!!!! If you don't know what that means, trust me it is designed that way.

Contrast that with $1665 I paid on my 03 TDI. I keep it 20 years and its now $83.25 per year.
 
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Losha

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG, 2001 Golf TDI, Audi S6, A8, Toureg
That era A6, especially with that sweet V8, is an awesome car. I take care of several of them.
Defenetaly sweet car, I would say its cheaper version of RS6 you get for money. Dont have much experiance with those 4.2L engines in them but from what I heard that they are pretty reliable other then parts are very spendy.
 

RT1

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2006
Location
Central New Jersey
TDI
2005 Golf 1.9 TDI w/tiptronic 09A
Anyone thinking of SELLING a good running PD car should think twice. Anyone selling an ALH car should be slapped. :cool:
I'm glad I got in before the shift to more complexity. I like technology but I like simplicity better. The CR sounded good, but losing efficiency for a bit of quiet and stacking on all those extra parts to achieve a tiny fraction of emissions improvement...nah. I'm keeping mine for the long haul.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Think back a few years, and people with ALHs were complaining about:

  • Frequent and expensive MAF failures
  • Intake clogging
  • Cam failures ('01s in particular)
  • Glow plug faults
  • Overboost/underboost issues
Along with the less frequent but more expensive turbo or injection pump failures, and non-engine related issues with rusting fenders, windows dropping into the doors, and so on. 8-10 years later people chalk these issues up to the ALHs being older cars and how much less expensive they are to repair than a PD.

I'm honestly not sure these cars have ever been the most economical transportation around. Buy are a pleasure to own and drive, IMHO.
 

redtdi966

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2003
Location
bridgewater, NJ
TDI
09 B-graphite sedan 6-sp (Bridgewater- NJ)
No never again. I have has diesels since the 80 Rabbit. Price of fuel vs RG, , serious (perceived) complexity of the 09 engine / emissions complex and much lower mileage vs my 96 Passat (50 vs 09 40 MPG). VW built a great CR diesel with great performance but never again for me. For the 09 VW took the diesel out of the diesel.

I'll be getting a non turbo gasser.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Think back a few years, and people with ALHs were complaining about:

  • Frequent and expensive MAF failures
  • Intake clogging
  • Cam failures ('01s in particular)
  • Glow plug faults
  • Overboost/underboost issues
Along with the less frequent but more expensive turbo or injection pump failures, and non-engine related issues with rusting fenders, windows dropping into the doors, and so on. 8-10 years later people chalk these issues up to the ALHs being older cars and how much less expensive they are to repair than a PD.

I'm honestly not sure these cars have ever been the most economical transportation around. Buy are a pleasure to own and drive, IMHO.
I agree, totally. Problem is, none of those issues, even early on when ALH MAFs were over $300, come close to some of the potential issues of the CR engines. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=3375135#post3375135
 

tdiatlast

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
I'm lucky. I have access to 2 great dealer techs, trusted gurus within a short distance, diesel at $4.09 vs. prem. RUG at $4.22.
I'm in for the long haul. We love our cars (and the up-coming CR Passat is beckoning, only because we need more space for our children!)
If I lived outside of any of the above, I'd stay with a gasser...probably Japanese.
 

nate379

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Location
Palmer, AK
TDI
05 Jetta
I pay less for diesel than what gas sells for. Buy in bulk so I get a decent price.

Costs me about $0.08/mile in fuel to drive the car.
 

SoTxBill

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 14, 2000
Location
its not the base, its the additives!!
TDI
13 passatdsg 10 jetdsg, 09 jetdsg, 2006 jetdsg, 2001Jet, 96passat, 86jet, 81 jet, 78pickup all vw diesel.
I am really questioning this guys!

* Diesel is so expensive.

* The expensive maintenance that is required.

* Timming belts at 120K

* DPF replacement also at 120K

* Poor fuel mileage (mine is a 09)

* The dealers cant give these things away anymore.

Am i alone???

when gas was a dollar, diesel was $1.10. when gas was $2, diesel was $2.20.
when gas was $3, diesel was $3.30, Now that gas is $4.00 I am buying diesel for $4.34 is I shop a bit and usually much cheaper on both. I have two vw's now. both are dsg... I get 38 mpg city and between 38 and 53 on the highway,, but usually its 43.7 mpg.

timing belts used to be due a 90k,, now they are 120k.

dpf... we have to see about..

mantanance?? its free up to 40k now as opposed to having to pay earlier..

newer jettas starting a $15k now...

so bottom line...

quit crying. gets your facts right and go buy a prius as your too dumb to drive a vw. other than the dpf.. you have been wrong about everything. on the dpf,, we need to see what happens... but no, my vw's have gotten better not worse.
 
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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I get 38 mpg city and between 38 and 53 on the highway,, but usually its 43.7 mpg. There are several gas cars that can claim this.

timing belts used to be due a 90k,, now they are 120k. and they still cost more than any others

dpf... we have to see about..

mantanance?? its free up to 40k now as opposed to having to pay earlier..then afterwards it is more costly than most any other car

newer jettas starting a $15k now... not with a diesel engine they don't

so bottom line... you can spend less, both to purchase and operate, than a current diesel Volkswagen, if all you are concerned with is cost.

.
Bold is mine. So please, someone explain to me just in the monetary sense, how a $25k 40 MPG Golf is somehow cheaper to operate than a $12k 38 MPG Yaris? I'll break down the cost of both cars' PM schedules if you like. Keep in mind, I am a Volkswagen fan, and would rather chew my arm off than drive a Yaris every day, but when it comes to costs... :cool: Volkswagen loses. Now when it comes to driving comfort, looks, handling, yada-yada-yada, they are superb. But cost? Nope, they are just as bad as ever. Cheapskates and Volkswagens do not make good partners.
 
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120getsitdone

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Location
CA
TDI
09 Jetta TDI
Bold is mine. So please, someone explain to me just in the monetary sense, how a $25k 40 MPG Golf is somehow cheaper to operate than a $12k 38 MPG Yaris? I'll break down the cost of both cars' PM schedules if you like. Keep in mind, I am a Volkswagen fan, and would rather chew my arm off than drive a Yaris every day, but when it comes to costs... :cool: Volkswagen loses. Now when it comes to driving comfort, looks, handling, yada-yada-yada, they are superb. But cost? Nope, they are just as bad as ever. Cheapskates and Volkswagens do not make good partners.
they are not as cheap as the Jetta is in the long run, when your Jetta lasts 100 times longer then a small, nonpowerful, heap of junk...:cool:
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
they are not as cheap as the Jetta is in the long run, when your Jetta lasts 100 times longer then a small, nonpowerful, heap of junk...:cool:
Show of hands of new car buyers that keep their cars long enough for this to matter?

I have 282k miles on a 1996 Odyssey. My 1989 Toyota pickup in its current owner's hands has well over 300k. My 1987 Mazda B2000 had 404k on it when a deer took it off the road... are these all hunks of junk, too?

I agree, Volkswagens generally age very well. But the ones that I see here regularly with 300k+ miles on them are rarely driven by the original owners, and have all had quite a bit spent on them to keep them on the road.
 
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nate379

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Location
Palmer, AK
TDI
05 Jetta
What is so $$ about a timing belt. Is ~$250 every 100k really that bad? Many vehicles run some kind of timing belt, so it's not like it's eclusive to the TDIs.

Can't really say on the new car cost. I have owned TONS of cars over the years (have 5 right now) but never bought one brand new.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
What is so $$ about a timing belt. Is ~$250 every 100k really that bad? Many vehicles run some kind of timing belt, so it's not like it's eclusive to the TDIs.

Can't really say on the new car cost. I have owned TONS of cars over the years (have 5 right now) but never bought one brand new.
You cannot do a timing belt on a TDI for $250. Unless you DIY's M&P Prothe it, then you get to do a $2500+ valve job (or worse).
 

Losha

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG, 2001 Golf TDI, Audi S6, A8, Toureg
Many of you keep complaining about high maintance cost of vehicles specially german cars like VW/Audi, BMW, MB and that they always break down, parts are expensive hard to find someone that would work on them. Also many of you want all these cool luxury features that cars should have, like power & heated/cooled seats, navigation, laser guided cruise control, DVD player in headrests, 4zone climate control, lane change assist feature, power door locks, windows, mirror, for summer we need sunroof. For engine must have lot of power and awesome fuel economy and operate quite, oh and very low emissions, must have ABS, ESP, ASR, EDL ( for poor weather driving conditions), having air or hydroulic suspension would be nice too with normal, sport and comfort or off road settings, and many more features that available this days on cars and last is to have vehicle that is trouble free and cheap to repair/service. I know many of you will say I don't care about these cool features, but come be honest how many of you when bought your TDI or other vehicle wanted to have some of above or all of listed features for comfortable driving experiance?

Reality is that you can't have all in one package, if you want long lasting reliable cheap to operate vehicle then you will have to get rid of all those fancy features. Keep very minimum of powered features maybe have like CD player, PW/PL and cruise control, have manual transmission and cheap low maintance engine that is easy to fix and uses cheap parts.

I personally don't know anyone yet that owned a german vehicle then traded in for Asian or Domestic vehicle and doesn't miss their old VW/Audi or BMW, MB car. They all complained about how expensive it was to own operate it, but none of them said that they hated it because it was boring, uncomfortable, unsafe to drive. There is very simple rule that applies to everything, "You want to play, you got pay". :)

For last, each of you look and think of How many of you, your close ones or friends would have been out of jobs if all cars or other equipment out there would been bullet proof reliable and never broke down, only needed simple maintance things like filters, fluids? Or try to think and put toghter a picture of how many people do you employ or give job to when you buy as simple as oil filter to your car? Here is rough picture, we raw parts supplier, then have manufactor, shipping company, wholesaler, retail store then you as customer. So your $10 oil filter keeps many people on job by the time you receive it from manufacture to you, then we have repair/service shops with mechanics that you pay to install that filter.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The coolant and the labor. Unless you work for free. Is your time not worth anything to you?

It is 4.5 hrs book time labor for that job on the BEW.

It is 2.7 hrs book time labor for that same job on a 2004 1.7L Honda Civic. The parts necessary, even buying at full Honda retail, is about $155. Aftermarket (but still good OE quality parts) is less than $100.

So, even if you were doing this yourself, the Civic would be cheaper and easier to do, and would require no special tools. If you were paying someone to do the job, the cost difference would be even greater.

Nevermind that every other single PM item on the Civic costs less.
 

nate379

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Location
Palmer, AK
TDI
05 Jetta
I'm cheaper than all heck and honestly the Jetta is right on the top of the list of the cheapest vehicle I have owned as far as maint costs.

I have put more money INTO my truck than I paid for my car... by nearly 2x!
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I'm cheaper than all heck and honestly the Jetta is right on the top of the list of the cheapest vehicle I have owned as far as maint costs.

I have put more money INTO my truck than I paid for my car... by nearly 2x!

You simply have not had the car long enough to warrant that comment. 5 years from now you will see differently. Your join date of less than 1 year ago gives you away. Don't get me wrong, I wish you the best, I really do. But your reluctance to understand your car's OBD system in prior threads sets the stage for someone that may not be as in love with the car in the future.
 
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