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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas

VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas Discussions area for A5/MkV Jetta/Golf (2005/2006 PD and 2009 CR).

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Old April 15th, 2010, 15:29   #1
Bluegrass
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Exclamation HPFP Story

Note: I have NOT had a HPFP fail on my '09! (knock on wood)

Right before I went into the dealership to look at the '09 models, I took my '06 in for it's 40k service. I saw the mechanic in the service bay and inquired about the '09's, and he told me he had had to replace a fuel system. Naturally, I assumed that the owner had made a mistake, or something to that effect. This was not the case.
Three months later, I trade my '06 in on an '09, not hearing anymore about the issue, but reading about the HPFP failures here on the forum.
Fast-Forward to today:
I take my '09 in for it's 10k, and catch the mechanic in the service bay again.
I ask him about the HPFP issues, and lo and behold, he states that they have had one recently, but only the one previously and this current one.
Well, later on while I wait, I get a visit by a person, who says to come look at the pump before they pitch it. I was excited to get this chance, after following the threads here, especially concerning the bad fuel, rust, etc., claims of other dealerships.
I can tell you this from my close observation of the disassembled pump. There is a design flaw in the piston to cam surface area, that no matter what fuel, additive or anything else you use, will cause catastrophic pump failure. The pump piston simply floats on a single roller that contacts the pump cam. If this roller is turned 90 degrees from parallel to the cam, then the roller AND cam grind each other to bits,right down the middle of each other.
There is no mechanism to keep the piston from rotating in the pump, to prevent this from happening, other than the pressure from the piston spring and the cam to roller contact.
So, if you see any metal at all on top of the fuel filter, get ready, because the damage(s) are already done to the HPFP and the cam.

Sorry I did not take pictures, to protect the innocent. I really, really, wanted to!

I hope this helps anyone, because I know now I am armed and ready if it happens to my '09, which had the tranny recall done already.
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Old April 15th, 2010, 17:08   #2
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Thanks for that information. This should be helpful to those experiencing any HPFP issues.

Interested in finding out why you decided to go with an CBEA? Would like to hear your opinions on the 2 model year differences. Rather than confuse your thread here is a link to a thread with other 06 owners that purchased 09/10

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=232202
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Old April 15th, 2010, 17:28   #3
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As odd as this sounds, I hope this theory is the real cause of failures, and not bad gas.

If it's a design flaw, we have some hope of remedy. If it's simply random "bad gas" and the part is working as designed, we might never have a real work around.


I would like to see photos though. Doesn't need to be of the pump you saw today - anyone who has gone through a HPFP failure should try to get their hands on the pump for us to see
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Old April 15th, 2010, 17:48   #4
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If it is a design flaw then why aren't all of them eating their internals?

What might it be that is causing only a few to hull?
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Old April 15th, 2010, 17:52   #5
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Let's revisit this thread 3 years from now and see if the % of failures increase with age/miles.
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Old April 15th, 2010, 18:39   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Bearing
If it is a design flaw then why aren't all of them eating their internals?

What might it be that is causing only a few to hull?
As per OP:
"If this roller is turned 90 degrees from parallel to the cam, then the roller AND cam grind each other to bits,right down the middle of each other.
There is no mechanism to keep the piston from rotating in the pump, to prevent this from happening, other than the pressure from the piston spring and the cam to roller contact."

If that is fact, the question now becomes:
"What might it be that is causing only a few pistons to rotate in the pump?"
If that is the question, my answer would be:
probability theory: a few out of thousands will rotate and in doing so create a mess...
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Old April 15th, 2010, 18:58   #7
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If that is fact, the question now becomes:
"What might it be that is causing only a few pistons to rotate in the pump?"
If that is the question, my answer would be:
probability theory: a few out of thousands will rotate and in doing so create a mess...
[/quote]

Turning corners too fast will do this.
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Old April 15th, 2010, 19:02   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoTxBill
Turning corners too fast will do this.
Oh NO! Then I am doomed!!

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Old April 15th, 2010, 19:30   #9
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Have we heard any reports of "catastrophic" HPFP failures? There's a lot of daylight between "there's metal filings in my fuel system" and "catastrophic pump failure".
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Old April 15th, 2010, 19:48   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegrass
So, if you see any metal at all on top of the fuel filter, get ready, because the damage(s) are already done to the HPFP and the cam.

Sorry I did not take pictures, to protect the innocent. I really, really, wanted to!

I hope this helps anyone, because I know now I am armed and ready if it happens to my '09, which had the tranny recall done already.
Thanks for the info. However, I dunno about this last jump regarding metal in the filter. It really seems like half the people who open their filter housings find metal. This includes at least two filter photos posted here of supposedly "clean" filters that in fact show traces of metal. And so far, none of the cars with metal showing up in their filters have subsequently failed -- at least at this time.
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Old April 15th, 2010, 20:41   #11
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Certainly someone here knows someone who "knows someone" that can get the schematics / diagram of the Bosch HPFP in our cars. I am curious how they are built and designed.
Let's just say our HPFP go bad, does VW or Bosch have a different type to put in instead of the current batch of pumps? What options do we have? I believe there has been one report of a member having TWO HPFP failures. This came from maverick395......
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=269781
Putting the same style pump back in doesn't really make sense to me if it is a known fact they are poorly designed and there's a good chance it will fail at some point. Perhaps Bosch mass-produced these HPFP's under an extreme timeline in order to meet VW's marketing plan. If so, that could have caused the Bosch QA Team to overlook "mediocre" manufacturing processes and allow sub-par quality pumps to get into our cars.
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Old April 15th, 2010, 21:18   #12
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I wonder if this same pump is/was used in European cars.
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Old April 15th, 2010, 21:40   #13
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This is really good info to have. If any Vendors or VW employees are on the Forum, please offer some insight. It would also be nice to have a Service Adviser from a VW dealer online to shed some light on this potential defect.
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Old April 15th, 2010, 21:44   #14
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Some fuel pump porn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4lMJ4lqRuo

(This video is the two-piston variety instead of the single piston unit that the TDI uses)

See also:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=30

FYI, I think the new Ford 6.7L "scorpion" engine uses the two-piston version of our pump, with each piston feeding an engine half.
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Old April 16th, 2010, 00:35   #15
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and that's a totally different cam arrangement to the previous 3- piston CP1; this had an eccentric on the shaft and a close-fitting sleeve as a follower. Something of a radial swash-plate.

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