BD in Treg - Page 2

Yeti35 · November 14th, 2009, 18:38

Ok, I had a discussion today with two friends of mine who both happen to be diesel mechanics. One works for a shop that rebuilds and hops up diesel PU's. I asked him about additives to diesel and he said yes to do it and gave me a name for a product. Which at this point I forget the name. He did however mention to stay away from BD and he does not recommend it at all since there are currently no standards for it. He says he has seen more issues using BD then without using it. He did say to use and additive though.

Ok so I end up running into another friend who I completely forgot is also a diesel mechanic, but on Semi's. He mentioned the whole lubericity thing as well, but also asked me what year my Treg is and if it was also running Ad Blue system. I told him it was a 2010 and yes it was running Ad Blue. He said to not worry about any additives at all since the 2010's are built to a different standard and don't require it. He said he is starting to see more Semi's coming in with the AdBlue system as well and they don't do anything but fuel and go.

So take this info for what it is worth, but it does come from mechanics who know way more about it then I ever could.

schubie · November 14th, 2009, 19:14

Well, actually there is a standard. It's BQ-9000, and what we should be using in B2-5 blends. This distinguishes BD from simple WVO (waste vegetable oil), which we're not supposed to run in our pee-squirter TDIs.

My understanding is the problems associated with BD have mainly come from its solvency. BD is typically created by cutting vegetable (soy) oil with methanol. The latter is an excellent solvent. So much so the seals in some older diesels seem to have issues with even the lowest BD blends. Fortunately, our new TDIs appear to have been designed with use of modest blends in mind.

However, our ULSD has had much of it's lubricity (formerly provided by impurities like sulfer) cooked out of it. In fact, refiners/wholesaler are actually required now to boost lubricity to a minimum standard. Problem is they pushed this standard to be lower than the OE (bosch) specs met in europe & canada. And then there's the question of whether they're complying with this standard...

On the up side, BD blends of at least B2 exceed the bosch lubricity specs. Per the study at the below link, this is ultimately the best 'additive' one can provide in terms of lubricity. I believe B2-5 is also the only thing besides ULSD that VWoA sanctions for use in the V6TDI.

http://www.johnfjensen.com/Diesel_fu...itive_test.pdf

Hope this helps--Chris

Yeti35 · November 14th, 2009, 20:23

I looked through the PDF, but the issue I have with it is that it was done back in 07 before our TDI's existed. I am not arguing anything with this, but I tend to believe more what was told to me by my friend who works on Semi diesels and is seeing the Urea systems on them also. He is working with more current diesel systems then the guy who works on PU's. I think for me I am going to do a wait and see on this subject.

schubie · November 15th, 2009, 14:19

I agree, the information in the lubricity test is dated. It would be very helpful to see some follow up wear testing with real world ULSD. I'd also like to learn what if any steps the clean diesel manufacturers (VAG/MB/BMW) are taking to address this from their end. I actually know someone who works at Robt Bosch on this technology in Auburn Hills. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to follow up with him about this in the near future.

In the meantime, a wait and see approach certainly doesn't sound unreasonable. I'm only advocating B2 use for myself as insurance. Plus it doesn't hurt in contributing to a renewable fuels market.

dcharnet · November 15th, 2009, 16:07

Well, the "check system" light went out, so I will not take this to the dealer. For now, and perhaps forever (fuel filler door says "No BD") I will avoid BD. We can all work together to understand the BD-thing better, but I am skeptical. 575 miles so far and very impressed with this elegant, taut, agile and powerful machine.

Yeti35 · November 15th, 2009, 16:59

My friend who works on the semi diesels says we should not need anything at all added to the tank since 2010 standards for motors are different then what they used to be, so the ULSD is fine with nothing added. The 2009 TDI may be fine to since that is Urea system as well. I don't pretend to know anything about this, but I feel I can trust someone who actually works with this stuff on a daily basis.

schubie · November 15th, 2009, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcharnet

Well, the "check system" light went out, so I will not take this to the dealer. For now, and perhaps forever (fuel filler door says "No BD") I will avoid BD. We can all work together to understand the BD-thing better, but I am skeptical. 575 miles so far and very impressed with this elegant, taut, agile and powerful machine.

Did you ever figure out what BD/ULSD blend was used prior to the CEL? If you paid via CC and still have the receipt, the grade might be listed on it.

geon116 · November 15th, 2009, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcharnet

I have a new 10 T'reg TDI and am new to diesels. It has 275 miles on it. The dealer filled the tank on pickup last weekend (Saturday). I topped it off last Sunday (6 -7 gallons?) with diesel fuel from a very busy I-80 station that was labelled "BD/ULSD." After driving 75-100 or so more miles, the "check emissions" light came on. Possible cause and effect? I will take it it the dealer Monday, but am interested in any thoughts any of you have.

Hard to say what caused the CE light to go off. Personally, I would decline the free fuel offer from the dealer, unless I was there to watch them fuel it up. That's just me.

Nice wheels. Enjoy.