Prepping an MK4 Golf for RallyX and Navex/Drivex Rally

[AndrewAugust]

I've heard there are some well know week spots on the Golf when it comes to running it in rallies at high speed. I've got an '04 Golf TDI and I'm interested in getting some feedback about suspension choices and possible mods to strengthen weak points.Right now everything mechanical is stock.

[eurojulien]

I would add/upgrade
1. Suspension:
- Audi TT bushings for the rear control arm bushings
- I'm a fan of bilstein HDs for factory ride height or sports + an aggressive spring, but it depends what ride height you want.
- Front and rear braces.. Rear will kill your trunk space (when you fold rear seats down)

2. Brakes
- If you are doing high speed driving the stock TDI brakes are just not up to the challenge. I suggest atleast getting better pads and rotors or even getting GTI (5 speed) front knuckles and fitting the GLI/20th Big brake kit all the way around with aggressive pads, slotted rotors (front only) and some superblue brake fluid

3. Skid plate is always good.
4. Seat: you need something that'll hold you in place so that your arms can be free to actually do the driving

Alot of this really depends on what type of driving you are looking to do, how much of it, and your skill as a driver. Give us more info and we can help you more.

I've kept a subaru 2.5RS at bay on a mountain road with my tdi :-)

[indiana542003]

Ok I'm calling bullcrap here. First, lowering a car for rally is just ridiculous. Second, you kept a subaru at bay on a mountain road? What with your lowered car and low profile street tires? I don't think so!

[eurojulien]

Originally Posted by indiana542003

Ok I'm calling bullcrap here. First, lowering a car rally is just ridiculous. Second, you kept a subaru at bay on a mountain road? What with your lowered car and low profile street tires? I don't think so!

Here is the direct quote from vwvortex:

Originally Posted by hondamit

i thought i was worth a damn.... untill eurojulien outran me in a ****ing TDI golf, UPHILL... my hat is still off to that guy.

I know the road...

Regarding the lowering of his car for rallye.. If you read my message again you might notice I ask for more info on exactly what type of driving he'll be doing and how often, and from this I would be able to give better advice.


Julien

[indiana542003]

Was this race against the subaru on pavement or dirt? I believe this thread is about rally. Your car is obviously not set up for anything in the dirt. Stating that you beat a subaru on a "mountain road" is misleading if the race was on pavement.

[indiana542003]

By the way, did you edit your first response to include factory ride height? The post originated yesterday at 5:22 pm and was last edited today at 7:09 am. When I read it yesterday, there was nothing about factory ride height and you were talking about a 1.7 inch drop and coilovers!?

[RabbitGTI]

Originally Posted by AndrewAugust

I've heard there are some well know week spots on the Golf when it comes to running it in rallies at high speed. I've got an '04 Golf TDI and I'm interested in getting some feedback about suspension choices and possible mods to strengthen weak points.Right now everything mechanical is stock.

Read the sanctioning body rule book before you do anything. Think safety...cage, proper belts, etc.... before worrying about go fast bits.

[eurojulien]

Originally Posted by indiana542003

By the way, did you edit your first response to include factory ride height? The post originated yesterday at 5:22 pm and was last edited today at 7:09 am. When I read it yesterday, there was nothing about factory ride height and you were talking about a 1.7 inch drop and coilovers!?

I reworded it to catch less crap from guys like you.

This is the road:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ent=firefox-a#
Race started at the straightaway (2 min mark in the video) He would have had me for dead in the first section of the road

Julien

[AndrewAugust]

Originally Posted by eurojulien

I reworded it to catch less crap from guys like you.

This is the road:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ent=firefox-a#
Race started at the straightaway (2 min mark in the video) He would have had me for dead in the first section of the road

Julien

Thanks for the original post Julien. But please ignore the people trying to start crap. This thread is about prepping a Golf for rallying. Please start another thread if you guys have something else to talk about.

I have an Evo skid plate already and it's been great to have, that's for sure. My goal is to set the car up for gravel/dirt stages. Keep in mind i'm not doing performance rallies, so I don't need the rollcage and 5 point harness etc. I'll be sticking to Open Road Rallies and then RallyX (cage not required, slower speed on short course), SnowX, and AutoX.

I know AutoX performance requirements are different to gravel and dirt stage rallies, but I'll take whatever I get when I run AutoX it'll just be for the practice.

Goals: Handling and strength. I plan to do this by getting a set of coilovers specifically valved and sprung for gravel events (not tarmac). That will be my biggest investment and might not happen for a while. Aside from that I think I'll do the rear sway bar to reduce understeer, maybe upgrade bushings or w/e I need to for strength/durability, and seeing how I need to replace the pads and discs after winter anyway, I'll probably upgrade the brakes.

What I'm looking for is suggestions for these products, and/or areas I may have overlooked.

Thanks

[vitoal18t]

Hello,

I am glad to hear another person prepping Mk4 for racing. I am TDI fan, 09 TDI is my daily driver, and I've been toying with the idea of building Mk4 for endurance events for years.

I don't have much Mk4 experience, but I "tracked" several cars on the tarmac including Ford Focus, Mk4 Jetta 1.8T & Lancer EVO IX RS. Now I road race a Honda, I know, not very VW-like but it's affordable and there are Hondas to race against in our club.

Here is how I would approach the problem:

If you are planning to do mostly Rally and RallyX, I would do the following:

1). Make sure your car is in a healthy running street order, just like a good mechanic would leave it before selling it at a reputable used car dealer .

2). Read the rules and get all the required safety gear, don't be cheap there, you probably won't need the gear, but just in case something goes wrong, you want to be sure everything is working and safe. Motorsports can be extremely dangerous, even in a fire suite, full cage, wearing a helmet & HANS device. I've seen some "freakish" things. So take safety very seriously.

3). After you got 1 & 2, do NOT spend any more money, just do it! Go race/RallyX. You'll find that dirt is a great equalizer, so power, handling is very low priority when you are starting out. Do few events and then you can feedback to us as to what kind of mods you really need.

You'll find that you'll probably need some sort of LSD, putting power is the key.

Too many people make a mistake to mod and trick the car out for the event, only to realize that they spent all the money and don't have the budget to actually run the car.


If you are planning to do Open Track (tarmac), or Time Trials where you are driving around the race track with other cars, I would do this:

1). Make sure the car is in good running order
2). Read rules and get required safety equipment.
3). Yes, you can invest into brakes. At the very least I recommend
a). Bleed your brakes, put some high performance fluid like ATE Blue
b). Start out with stock solid rotors
c). Get real track pad, I used Carbotech XP8 on my Jetta
4). Make sure you have OK tires, I would highly recommend good, brand name summer tire, all-season is OK, depending on the brand/model.
I have experience with really cheap, not so popular tires, like General, they do very funky things when they get hot.

5). Try to sustain it for the next 3-4 events, w/o spending any more money on mods. You'll quickly find out that there is a lot of cost involved.

You'll see that stiffer springs, camber plates, shocks will be next on your list, but don't invest in that right away, you can be fast with stock springs and stock working shocks.

If you do enough events, you'll find out that pretty much everything is wrong with your car. Production cars on average are just a pile of sheetmetal.

But the key is to drive, spend money towards seat time, vs. mods when you are just starting out.

I don't know, I am assuming you are starting out....

[AndrewAugust]

Thanks! That's some really great advice. I think it's a good idea to run the car as-is until I get enough experience to determine what modifications I need. Plus it's easier on the pocket book. AND who knows, perhaps I'll change directions and go more towards endurance racing (that really interests me as well).

I am new to racing, so I will have a lot to learn.

[TdiRacing]

We raced a MK4 for 7 years in Pro rally events. The suspension will be your largest investment and the most important as well. The components are strong enough, you just need good shocks and springs for what the events will have.

A full steel frame and skid plate is a must under the engine. We had to build a cage that went to the frame to protect the pan and still had some close calls. A normal skid plate WILL NOT DO. You will hate yourself when you engine blows because of no protection...

Good luck. If you have questions feel free to email me. Was the crew chief for 6 years...have championships and 2 Pikes Peak records in a TDI...

[Powder Hound]

Originally Posted by vitoal18t

...If you do enough events, you'll find out that pretty much everything is wrong with your car. ....

I'm at work, trying not to embarrass myself. Too funny, and too true.

[RabbitGTI]

Best thing to do starting out is inexpensive stuff like stock autocross to see if you like it. The amount of time and money required to run up front at any level will amaze you. Most people who think they want to go racing find out they don't. I've seen many people spend big dollars, do a few events and sell everything.