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VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas Discussions area for A5/MkV Jetta/Golf (2005/2006 PD and 2009 CR).

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Old August 24th, 2009, 12:06   #1
vegtech
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Question 05 A5 jetta PD BRM no start

i have a brm engine here that will not start. the other day it started really hard. it cranked untill the battery ws alomst dead then it started. but would not rev up i had the owner unhook the battery, wait then hook it back up. that got him on the road he brought it straight to me. i ran veg com and found a bunch of codes and cleared them all test drove and it it ran ok but i new it was not right. check codes and found pd unit injector 1 and 4 implausible signal. clear it and they come back a few miles down the road. it had not had a fuel filter in it that i know of so i changed that and did some more driving it made a diff but still had the same codes keep coming back so i called it a day and went home to research the codes and found all about the T8 connector figuerd that was it so the next day i went to the shop and was going to do all of the test i had found on it but it would not and will not restart. i had started it 30 times the day before but now nothing. I have done all the fuel test and it is getting fuel and presure at the tandem pump. I was also told about the screen inside the tandem pump so i opened it up and cleaned that it was dirty but it did not make it run . I did DanG144 T8 test and found i only have .15v ish on pins 2,3,5,6 where it should be .55 and also the ohms to gound that should be >200K i am getting around 1.448M on pins 2,3,5,6 and 3.35K on pin 7 i have looked at the wire harness and found nothing wrong i have cleaned the grounds under the air box. I did notice that Dans specs are for a BEW engine and it says (may apply to BRM) does anyone know if this is the case or are the specs. differant? any help would be great. Yes this car is on WVO but it does not seem to be a fuel system problem at all but I'm sure some of the haters will tell me thats the problem. lol let me Know if you can help. If you want to call feel free 603-630-5408
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Old August 24th, 2009, 12:07   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegtech
Yes this car is on WVO but it does not seem to be a fuel system problem at all but I'm sure some of the haters will tell me thats the problem.
Not a WVO hater, but you have a fuel system problem.
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Old August 24th, 2009, 13:06   #3
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so the low voltage specs dont concern you?
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Old August 24th, 2009, 13:43   #4
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Remove the Airbox and battery

Unplug engine harness

See if it's chaffed.

That might fix it up for it's short road ahead.
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Old August 24th, 2009, 13:50   #5
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i removed the air box and looked there and over the starter. but i did not remover the battery, is there a problem spot under there?
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Old August 24th, 2009, 13:51   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegtech
so the low voltage specs dont concern you?
You said you cranked until the battery was low in voltage.

If the engine is turning over, and air is getting in it, and it's not even burbling or almost catching, then it is getting NO FUEL.
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Old August 24th, 2009, 14:05   #7
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i understand its gettin no fuel into the cylinders but is the because the low voltage to the injectors? i know i have fuel and psi to the tandem pump is there a way to see if the fuel is getting from the tp to the injectors?
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Old August 24th, 2009, 17:36   #8
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Heath,
Three new data points.

1)My old craftsman inductive timing light fired every time the solenoid on the injector fired. First time I have used that in years. This just proves electricity is passing through the wires, not fuel through the injector.

2) Unless you pull a glow plug and look for fuel mist, I do not know any way to test for an injector passing fuel on a PD - but that should work.

In fact it just did. I could not detect the fuel mist until I put a clean round inspection mirror down close to the glow plug hole, then turn it over for 10 seconds, and I could see the mist and a few tiny drops off fuel on the mirror. No mist was visible at the hole to the naked eye when I just watched the plume. No mist could be detected putting a clean paper towel near the hole, either. It just blew a hole into and shredded the towel, but no fuel could be detected.

3) I also took the head connector off, to prevent firing, and then measured the return flow from the engine to the filter. I got 100 cc of fuel in 15 seconds of continuous cranking. So the tandem pump will not pass anything when it just receives the lift pump discharge (because of the back pressure regulator on the outlet of the return fuel rail), but at 250 rpm it pumps 400cc/min, and at 903 rpm it pumps 1300 cc/min. Just about what you would expect from a positive displacement pump - linear flow characteristics with speed.

The readings in my PDF http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/517/PD_...very_check.pdf
are just the ones from my BEW when it was working right (still is, by the way). I did not offer any bands or specs, just posted what I read on mine.


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Old August 24th, 2009, 17:50   #9
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List the DTCs (a 'bunch of codes' does not help much).

Is there any smoke in the exhaust while cranking? White or ????

Does it crank in a normal rythm, or is it erratic?

How fast does it crank? (engine RPMs displayed on scan tool during cranking).

Have you checked the compression?

The WVO-tooefed BRM I just had in the shop also had some DTCs for injector(s), as well as a cyl misfire DTC (it had 0 compression in one cylinder).
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Old August 25th, 2009, 07:02   #10
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i am new with the vag-com and i did not save the codes i know now that i should have. i have not checked the compression just for the fact that it ran good and had good power the day befor it failed to start. I did see the picks of the BRM you did and i had a duramax come in for an oil change. I pulled the drian plug and only about 8oz came out. I stuck my finger in it and found pudding. I took the pan off and removed a near solid lump the shape of the oil pan. it was like a jello cake. I dont know how it didnt blow up i fact it is still gooing strong to this day. that customer has 4 of the same trucks and all 4 are on veg and that is the only one that had a problem. Now, it was way over due on the oil change and the driver did admit that he stopped and started on veg alot and he let it idle on veg alot durring deliverys. extended idle time is not good on veg.

anyway back to the jetta. it turns over at about 250 and it is smooth no smoke at all
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Old August 25th, 2009, 07:30   #11
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250 cranking RPM is awful slow.
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Old August 25th, 2009, 07:38   #12
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i'll recheck it
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Old August 25th, 2009, 09:52   #13
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so i rechecked it and it is 272 and it sounds like a healthy turn over.

i also found in vcds under advenced measuring blocks i chose injection quanity cyl. 1 - 4 and when cranking it shows 0.00mg/str there should be something there right?
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Old August 25th, 2009, 11:02   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegtech
so i rechecked it and it is 272 and it sounds like a healthy turn over.

i also found in vcds under advenced measuring blocks i chose injection quanity cyl. 1 - 4 and when cranking it shows 0.00mg/str there should be something there right?
I think you need at least 450rpm for the car to start.
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Old August 25th, 2009, 11:02   #15
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Yeah, I do not think the ECU will even inject any fuel at such slow cranking speeds.
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