TDI Used Oil Lab Analyses Results & Discussions

UOA after water meth

During this oil service interval the timing belt was changed using a 100K kit and a water methanol injection system was installed and run for the final 1100 miles prior to oil change, went through about 4 gallons of washer fluid. A DG oil bypass filter was installed at the previous change, IOW, between the two following UOAs.

Previous UOA included for reference. Both were sampled midstream during drain.



Both were done by CAT. 2003 Jetta with 83700 miles at second drain.

Sample 1 at 20 miles, #2 taken 5000 miles later, great numbers! VWLLIII (507) on a 2004 Jetta PD.

DATE 2/17/2008 6/9/2008
mileage 125328 130595
sample miles 20 5273
iron 11 21
chromium 1 1
lead 0 1
copper 1 2
tin 0 0
aluminum 6 10
nickel 0 0
silver 0 0
silicon 5 3
boron 12 13
sodium 9 12
potassium 2 3
magnesium 92 116
calcium 1596 1690
phosphorus 541 751
zinc 827 843
molybdenum 3 3
fuel A A
water <0.1 0
glycol N N
visc 100c 11.9 11.7
soot <0.1 0.03
oxidation 18 21
nitration 6 8.8

Guess I'll keep using this stuff.

oil analyses guide

You might find interesting my last updates regarding terms, how to read/interpreted the results, etc...
is located in photos/technical items/technical bulletins/oil analyses guide

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showgallery.php?cat=529

I am waiting also for my analyses results as well.

Paul

First Time Analysis - Results

Date: 7/2/2008
Engine Code: BRM
Miles/oil: 6181
Miles/unit: 64181
Oil Type: Castrol SLX Pro 5W-30
Fe Iron: 62
Cr Chromium: 1
Al Aluminum: 7
Cu Copper: 3
Pb Lead: 2
Silicon: 6
Sodium: 2
Potassium: 14
Lithium: 2
Magnisium: 7
Calcium: 2344
Phosphorus: 852
Zinc: 991
Fuel: <.5%
Soot: 0.1%
Water: <.1
VIS: 11.7
TBN: 4.94
OXIDE 10
NITRA 13


Please tell me if I can keep using this oil vice changing it...

The iron numbers are getting up there, but the soot is low and the viscosity is fine. There's no sign of contamination, and the total base number is still high enough.

Considering about 6100 miles on this sample, I think maybe you should not go a full 10k miles on this oil. Maybe change it between 8k and 9k miles. The additive package should be depleted by then and the wear numbers will start climbing faster beyond that.

Additive Package

Is there any products one can add to extend the life of the oil?

bgbearnavy said:

Is there any products one can add to extend the life of the oil?

Click to expand...

Not really. Beware of snake oil, ceramic additives, etc.

Those products might help cheap dino oil, but not the high quality synthetics we run.

bgbearnavy said:

Is there any products one can add to extend the life of the oil?

Click to expand...

No. While many of us use additives in our fuel, where oil is concerned you just start with the best and hope that it's good enough.

Above I suggested running another 2000 miles and then do an oil change. What I recommend is that you test again at about the same point in your next oil drain interval -- around 6000 miles -- and see how that UOA compares with this one. With a little luck you may be able to go the full 10k miles the next time. On the other hand, if it also shows everything good except for iron, that will be a clue that people smarter than I am can use.

What you've got here is a baseline number. Additional testing will give you a lot more information.

Thanks for the help.... Not sure if I like the Castrol SLX Pro.


gonna try..... Amsoil AFL 505.01 5W40

PD 2004 - 130 000 km and oil changed at every 10 000 km

you know..plus minus say 500 km
I was using Castrol TXT 505.01 and now I am using Castrol SLX 505.01 .

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=46162&cat=529

I was trying to paste a .jpeg but I don't know how to do it...

ppopa said:

you know..plus minus say 500 km
I was using Castrol TXT 505.01 and now I am using Castrol SLX 505.01 .

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=46162&cat=529

Click to expand...

Why does it say 5w30? I was wondering... a viscosity of 13.5 cSt @100°C is a 40-weight oil.

Fe of 34 ppm is good, not great, at 10k kilometers. All other wear metals are very low, and there's no contamination. Good UOA report. You might try a 10k mile/16k km interval like VW recommends for your engine. Or test at 13k km the next time, to see if it will hold up until 16k.

PD 2004 - 130 000 km and oil changed at every 10 000 km

On the label is said Castrol 5W30 SLX OE Professional. That oil cames from a 5 days long trip in Alberta...avg speed of those 5 dayswas 100 km/h for a 3600 km with 190 l of diesel + 40 l B5 = 230 l of fuel. Speed was set by cc at 170 km/h ( no jokes ) and that's it. Nobody stayed in front of me. Some BMW, Toyotas were trying to keep my speed...but for only 10-15 min !!! - hahhahha...gasers...sorry no ofenses... now without jokes - engine was running great at that continous high speed .

I know that in Europe we were changing at 15 000/20 000 km but here in Canada the VW book said at 8 000 km...I chose to change at 10 000 km not knowing very well quality of the diesel fuel, B5 and to be safe at this point. As soon as I will get confidence in quality of the products I might go up with the oil change interval - say 15 000 km. Also I know that I am that kind of "heavy foot" on the pedal and I am running hard my car...so she deserves fresh and good oil on every 10 000 km ...at least ...
Up to now- July 2008 - no problems with B5 or Petro-Canada diesel but i will not use Esso and Chevron diesel.

TornadoRed said:

Why does it say 5w30? I was wondering... a viscosity of 13.5 cSt @100°C is a 40-weight oil.

Fe of 34 ppm is good, not great, at 10k kilometers. All other wear metals are very low, and there's no contamination. Good UOA report. You might try a 10k mile/16k km interval like VW recommends for your engine. Or test at 13k km the next time, to see if it will hold up until 16k.

Click to expand...

Anything over 12.5 cSt is considered a 40-weight, so yours has thickened a bit. After reminding everyone else that the VW507.00 5w30 motor oils were "thick" 30-weights, nearly 40-weight, I forgot it myself.

Still, the 13.5 cSt in your sample is very high for that number of miles. Partly it can be explained by the old 5w40 that didn't fully drain. But only partly -- this is at least slightly troubling, I think.

I am not sure about evaluating a particle count of 29 as a measure of soot. Is that 0.29%?

Just got my lastest. Looks like I will be changing oil soon.

leicaman said:

Just got my lastest. Looks like I will be changing oil soon.

Click to expand...

Your sample shows the opposite problem from ppopa -- your oil started as a 5w40 40-weight but has sheared down into a middle 30-weight.

None of the wear metals numbers are too high, though 55 ppm of Iron after 8k miles is a bit high. Soot (insolubles) at 0.6% is a little high.

I agree with your decision to change soon.

I couldn't read your link so I found the big one.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=46278&size=big&cat=&si=D459331.jpg

TornadoRed said:

Your sample shows the opposite problem from ppopa -- your oil started as a 5w40 40-weight but has sheared down into a middle 30-weight.

I couldn't read your link so I found the big one.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=46278&size=big&cat=&si=D459331.jpg

Click to expand...

The oil is a 5w30 oil...

leicaman said:

The oil is a 5w30 oil...

Click to expand...

For some reason I thought the Castrol 505.01 was a 5w40.

TornadoRed said:

For some reason I thought the Castrol 505.01 was a 5w40.

Click to expand...

The original versions are, but the latest are 5w30.

Bob_Fout said:

The original versions are, but the latest are 5w30.

Click to expand...

Correct. The original Castrol TXT 505.01 was a 5w40 oil and the newer oil, Castrol Professional OE rated at 505.01 is a 5w30 oil.

So...TXT = 5w40, SLX = 5w30?

I will say so. SLX is 5W30.
I don't know what is 29 on my sample.
I am runnig usually with B5. Is this important detail in analyze the oil tests?
Plus in am driving like in "italian stile" my car.......heavy foot....

TornadoRed said:

Your sample shows the opposite problem from ppopa -- your oil started as a 5w40 40-weight but has sheared down into a middle 30-weight.

None of the wear metals numbers are too high, though 55 ppm of Iron after 8k miles is a bit high. Soot (insolubles) at 0.6% is a little high.

I agree with your decision to change soon.

I couldn't read your link so I found the big one.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=46278&size=big&cat=&si=D459331.jpg

Click to expand...

Bob_Fout said:

So...TXT = 5w40, SLX = 5w30?

Click to expand...

Yes you've got it right. Below is a photo in which the Older 5w40 TXT bottle is pictured at left and on the right is the newer Castrol Professional OE SLX 5w30.

This is the latest one.....

leicaman said:

Yes you've got it right. Below is a photo in which the Older 5w40 TXT bottle is pictured at left and on the right is the newer Castrol Professional OE SLX 5w30.

Click to expand...

.....today I bought the latest version from my VW dealer. The only difference is "Full Synthetic"

Very cool. I plan on getting my oil changed this week on my tdi I got a reply from Blackstone Labs concerning how a B5.5 TDI 2.0 compares with the 1.9 TDI motors. I think its interesting as it comes from an oil analysis expert viewpoint:

Gary: Thanks for the e-mail and the additional information about the oil
pump chain. That could certainly contribute to the higher iron and I think
the small oil sump also contributes a lot to the higher wear. We have
separate averages for the 1.9L TDI and the 2.0L TDI. The 2.0L is still a
pretty new engine (compared to the 1.9L), so the averages may be elevated
slightly due to lingering wear-in from some engines, and in that case, we
should see lower averages in the future. Also, a big factor in wear levels
is the operation of the engine, so keep this in mind when you are looking
at reports. An engine that is operated primarily on the highway will
almost always look better than one that sees mostly city use. As far as
your engine goes, if wear levels stay in this range, then you could stick
with a 7,000-8,000 mile oil run and maybe even stretch it out to 10,000,
though it certainly will not hurt anything to be conservative and stay with
a ~5,000 mile oil run, especially if you want to get 200K or 300K miles out
of the engine. Let me know if you have any more questions.

I just got my analysis back:

2 ALUMINUM
2 CHROMIUM
18 IRON
2 COPPER
3 LEAD
1 TIN
2 MOLYBDENUM
1 NICKEL
0 MANGANESE
0 SILVER
0 TITANIUM
2 POTASSIUM
31 BORON
3 SILICON
2 SODIUM
2606 CALCIUM
603 MAGNESIUM
1290 PHOSPHORUS
1557 ZINC
0 BARIUM

76.5 SUS Viscosity @ 210°F
14.63 cSt Viscosity @ 100°C
425 Flashpoint in °F
<0.5 Fuel %
0.0 Antifreeze %
0.0 Water %
0.4 Insolubles %

Comments from lab were:

This Jetta's engine is showing exceptional wear readings, and has seemed to mature nicely with its age here at
200K. Physically, the oil looks good with no fuel, moisture, or coolant found.

Anyone have anything to add to the lab's comments? This is the first time I have run such an analysis and I decided to do so as I hit 200K. The oil is Mobil-1 TDT 5w40 with 10K on it and 1 quart make-up over that interval.

Dave

Dave_D said:

Anyone have anything to add to the lab's comments? This is the first time I have run such an analysis and I decided to do so as I hit 200K. The oil is Mobil-1 TDT 5w40 with 10K on it and 1 quart make-up over that interval.

Click to expand...

That's an especially good UOA, even better than the typical M1 5w40. Whatever you're doing, keep doing it.

5K on D1 ESP:

Well we ca see that Mg is the big number 600+ - just a bit of Boron. They doubled the Mg and cut the Ca. Time will tell and your engine is a good test engine. Although you have near identical performance to CI4, I bet the following interval will show slightly better numbers if all else stays equal.

Non-tdi

Hello Gents,

Pretty new to this Oil Analysis thing, but I got an imported Toyota 1KZ-TE turbodiesel engine to swap into a toyota 4runner, and pulled a sample from the old oil just to see what was going on with it. The lab (polaris) returned what they call abnormal results on potassium and nitration. I should note that I have no idea what kind of oil this was, how many miles on it, etc. The air filter was in decent condition, and I do know the engine had roughly 80,000 Ks on it.

Here are the numbers
Iron 62
Chromium 5
Nickel 0
Aluminum 8
Copper 6
Lead 2
Tin 0
Cadmium 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Vanadium 0
Silicon 22
Sodium 54
Potassium 45 (this they were concerned about)
Molybdenum 23
Antimony 1
Manganese 0
Lithium 0
Boron 46
Magnesium 105
Calcium 3831
Barium 0
Phosphorus 1293
Zinc 1519
Fuel <.5%
Soot 1.0
Water <.1
Viscosity @100°C 10.0 cST
Nitration 24au/cm

Polaris says the potassium might be an indicator of coolant.. I plan to flush the engine with fresh M1TDT, then pull a sample at 1k and see what's going on. Obviously I'll be keeping an eye on all systems, especially the coolant.

Thanks for any help,
Justin