your honest opinion (value of a TDI)

Jesse_Boyer · Aug 28, 2007

I'm looking at a rebuilt '01 Golf TDI GLS (5-speed, 4-door) that just had the timing belt, belt tensioner, water pump, etc completed. It has 88k miles. As far as I can tell, it has every thing but leather. It's a 'deep blue, almost purple' color to me... but my color recognition isn't considered 'normal.' Interior is a nice tan cloth and doesn't appear to have any major flaws.

The title is stamped 'rebuilt' and I'm certainly not new to rebuilt/salvage/etc titles. However, I've been told these tend to do quite well despite the title condition. Also, by words of the current owner, there is no evidence of a rebuild. I've built several wrecked vehicles over the years and he's assured me I won't be able to tell it had a minor collision. (we'll see about that)

In your honest opinion, what is this TDI worth?

Regards,
Jesse in Omaha

Jesse_Boyer · Aug 28, 2007

oh... and if this query is better suited elsewhere, please let me know.

dieseldorf · Aug 28, 2007

take normal retail price and divide by 2.

Jesse_Boyer · Aug 28, 2007

anyone else?

Jesse_Boyer · Aug 28, 2007

'dorf... in your opinion, what's fair market value for a car with those stats with a clean title?

rdkern · Aug 28, 2007

I'm not 'dorf, nor do I play him on the internet. However, fwiw, I'd say $10ish for a clean title and good background check.

doonboggle · Aug 28, 2007

Kbb

KBB site.....
Condition

Value
Excellent
$8,185

Good
$7,560

Fair
$6,725

jokila · Aug 29, 2007

doonboggle said:
KBB site.....
Condition

Value
Excellent
$8,185

Good
$7,560

Fair
$6,725

And you should deduct at least half for salvage title value. The guy paid less and so should you.

Lug_Nut · Aug 29, 2007

Its 'value' to you may be different than the'value' to Kelley, or the 'value' to D'dorf, or the 'value' to me. No one definition or assignment of worth to one will necessarily equal the same as another.
If you look at it and you assign your own value to it, and that value is higher than the value the seller assigns to it, then you have a deal and both you and the seller can be pleased with the outcome.
Then post what you paid so that all can know that value of that car in that condition to those buying and selling parties.

Jesse_Boyer · Aug 29, 2007

I'm aware of the stated KBB and NADA values, but it sure seems that these TDI's are in high demand and despite extremely high mileage, slight damage, title issues, etc... they still bring above book value. Supply and demand, I suppose.

oilhammer · Aug 29, 2007

A lot of it is the reactionary attitude of the American car buyer....gas prices go up, people seem to drive the price of these TDIs up. What so many people do not realize is that if the only reason you buy a TDI is for the excellent fuel economy, and nothing else, you are really bad at math.

These cars will cost more to maintain than some other cars, so in the end a 45 MPG Golf will barely be a break even point on a 35 MPG Corolla, and it will likely take 10+ years to get there, once you include the purchase price.

Now for me, I cannot stand to drive a Corolla around the block, much less 10 years (or the 16 I have been driving my Jetta!). So you need to look at the total picture: would you purchase that same Golf with the lackluster 2.0L gas engine under the hood? If not, then you clearly do not want the "rest" of the car beyond the TDI engine. In which case the car will not be a good match for you, and you really should look elsewhere.

Now today I drove my '97 Passat to work...and I admired how even after 347k miles and 10 years of use, and while the car still gets 45+ MPG, the real shining star to me is the car cruises at 80 like it is glued to the ground, has no squeeks or rattles, stops, steers, accelerates good, has GOBS of room even for my 270 lb 6'1" frame, paint still shines, no rust, and still has its original driveline intact. Now THAT is why these cars should command higher prices and hold their value...not just the 45 MPG.

NC01NBtdi · Aug 29, 2007

5-6k

I would pay 5-6000.00 depending on how bad you want the car, the condition and who did the tb.
Deduct at least 500. if the dealer did the work and add if one of the guru's from here did it

If you are keeping the car it would be worth a little more, if you are selling it in a few years, the salvage title will cost you.

bayshorecs · Aug 29, 2007

I drive a rebuilt. It was hit in the rear driver's panel. Since it is a cut out and replace on a 98, the repair costs can go quite high so it was dumped by the insurance company. The car was repaired before I bought it and other than a not so great paint job on the panel, the car is perfect. No shimmy at 110mph or anything.

So my advice is it depends on the car. If it still runs like new and there is no frame damage, it may just be a great car that you can get a discount. 50% discount....might be asking alot. You could be passing up a great deal on a good car.

The car will sell. Someone will buy it. If the owner knows anything about the valve of a TDI, you may not get much price movement.

dieseldorf · Aug 29, 2007

bayshorecs said:
The car will sell. Someone will buy it. If the owner knows anything about the valve of a TDI, you may not get much price movement.

Yeah, this is true. Somebody will be so anxious to buy the car that they'll pay full retail and have that "salvage" issue plaguing the car (and its net worth) forever....unless they move to FL, of course

Jesse_Boyer · Aug 29, 2007

I too think 50% decrease is asking a bit much. Honestly, I recently sold my '94 LT1 (built motor, single turbo, fuel system, SpeedPro ECU, etc) for over TWICE what book value was at the time...

Also, I'm coming from a '98 Regal GS (240hp supercharged 3800) that gets 25-ish mpg average. the way I figure, it will take less than ONE YEAR to pay for the difference in the fuel costs alone for the TDI verses the GS. Add to the fact that the TDI might actually be a FUN far to own/drive and modify for WVO... this sounds like fun.

NC01NBtdi: It's close to that range, actually.

dieseldorf: I'm certainly not discrediting anything you've said in this thread (or any other), but it looks like supply/demand is driving the costs of these cars higher than current KBB/NADA values. When I asked user 'Kleinergti1' (he sells many of these in Eastern IA) what he thought about this car and he said he recently sold a similar base model Golf TDI with many more miles and a branded title for ~9k.

Either way, I believe I'm going to take off the rest of the week for a little vacation/drive to view this Golf TDI in person.

bayshorecs · Aug 29, 2007

dieseldorf said:
Yeah, this is true. Somebody will be so anxious to buy the car that they'll pay full retail and have that "salvage" issue plaguing the car (and its net worth) forever....unless they move to FL, of course

No doubt the salvage title will hang around your neck. The issue will be what do you plan to do with the car.

Resell = don't bother with the headaches of the title, find another car
Drive it until it dies = worth a look it. could be a good car
Mod it for WVO = worth a strong look it as you may trash the car anyway running WVO so why spend alot of money

If you want a WVO car, I just sent you a PM for a 1977 Mercedes for $1800 to play with that is for sale in IL. I have no problems running BD in a TDI, but WVO....not for me. Get a tank for that and save your money.

dieseldorf · Aug 29, 2007

Jesse, it's very much an individual's choice. Personally, I don't think anyone could offer enough of a discount to buy a car with a salvage title. I simply would not tolerate on-going problems that could affect the car for the rest of its life. It's an exposure that's unacceptable to me.

2004Nick · Aug 29, 2007

Honest opinion

Great sermon, Oihammer! Your comments are right on where the rubber meets th road! Can I summarize: Our
cars are just plain FUN to drive instead of downright AGGRAVATING , (and they STAY FUN to drive for a VERY LONG TIME!)

Jesse_Boyer · Aug 29, 2007

also... at 45+ mpg, this will get better mileage than my '02 GSXR 1000. So, since I use it as my summer commuter only (I have another toy solely for speed), the bike could be sold as well.

Also, I wouldn't be running WVO directly in the tank (heard it can be done). I'd be running a heated, two tank setup.

Also, I've had several cars that weren't rebuilt with more gremlins than they should have! Just an FYI, I guess

Jesse_Boyer · Aug 29, 2007

Regarding the WVO with a TDI verses an older 300D MB... I prefer the TDI. If for whatever reason I don't end up going with a WVO kit, the TDI will still pull better mileage and suite me better for various reasons (size, style, etc). The benz is built like a TANK, but it's not for me.

Also, I still haven't decided on a WVO kit over an entire BioDiesel processor kit.

HopefulFred · Aug 29, 2007

Please consider what a WVO conversion could cost you in repairs. I'm not saying it will cost you a motor, but it surely could. My personal feeling is that whole vegetable oils will never (no matter how many tanks or how hot) burn properly in a TDI engine - you will be asking for trouble. Of course that's just my opinion.

You sound like you are most interested in playing with the car. If that's the case, think of the money as buying entertainment, not transportation. From that perspective, the costs look different.

scooperhsd · Aug 29, 2007

Think long and hard if you really want to do WVO - VW doesn't like biodiesel greater than B5 - WVO is simply out of the question. You can find the threads aplenty on this board about "failed" WVO conversions (I suppose if you want to replace the engine again in 50K-80K miles....).

OTOH, several people ARE running Biodiesel in B20 and above with few if any problems (as long as you watch the temperature and cut the bio with D2 / kerosene as the temps go down).

Jesse_Boyer · Aug 29, 2007

you would be right

.

I'm an engineer and simply can't leave well enough alone. Yes, an improperly setup WVO system could cost me $1000 in repairs, but many have proven it can be done for 50,000... 60,000... and 70,000+ miles without failure.

Just curious... but where did you develop this 'personal feeling' of VO not burning properly in a TDI? Some have done it with great success... some have had extreme failure. Granted, being on one side of the fence or the other is likely due to what 'side' of the story you saw originally. (not btrying to be confrontational whatsoever; simply making conversation)

vwcampin · Aug 29, 2007

Jesse, you will not find a lot of pro WVO people on this board. If you want to read up on WVO, start your research here: http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve Do your research first so you either make a sound decision on a kit, or build a proper kit. You can be successful with it, it just takes some dedication to do it properly. Find your oil source first and set up your filtering system well before you install your kit. Good luck with your search for a TDI.

Jesse_Boyer · Aug 29, 2007

vwcampin...

have we met? If nothing else, we probably should when/if I get this Golf back to the area. You may know me from the Supra, ‘Vette, or GSXR community.

As far as proper filtering/etc... I'm acquiring tanks, transfer pumps, etc from various locations.

Oil source? My girlfriend works at a pair of restaurants and I know another place to get as much oil as I can handle. He owns a catering company and no one uses any of his oil.

HopefulFred · Aug 29, 2007

Having seen valves covered in thick layers of varnish or coked oil or sludge (or whatever the proper term is), I know that material is being produced in engines burning VO. If a "properly designed and operated system" does not allow those deposits to accumulate, that doesn't mean the chemicals that form those deposits are not there in the engine. Even if diesel fuel or biodiesel can clean the deposits, I don't want that gum in there.

I have not seen the underside of a head that ran VO and stayed clean (obviously that doesn't mean it doesn't exist). If there were good pictures of one, I'd be interested in knowing what pattern of fuel usage it has experienced.

Mostly, I don't have faith that a carefully designed and implemented WVO conversion prevents those deposits. Further, I don't think a person is up to the job of swapping fuel supplies and managing temperature reliably enough to keep the system operating optimally. I may be "hopeful," but I'm not that confident.

I guess, I question what is really meant by "great success" when refering to a WVO conversion. Does that mean that the engine performs trouble-free for 200k+ miles? That is what I expect from my engine, and using unauthorized fuel seems like a bad gamble to me.

jasonTDI · Aug 29, 2007

You have to look why the car was a write-off. It could have had an engine or some body damage or both. So called salvage cars are not all trouble. While diminished value for some if the car is done right and you keep it for a long time they can be a wise purchase. I generally see about a 25-30% price reduction on them VS a non-branded title. FWIW if you are going to go through the trouble of a two tank system just make bio diesel.

bayshorecs · Aug 29, 2007

jasonTDI said:
FWIW if you are going to go through the trouble of a two tank system just make bio diesel.

ditto!

Engineer a nice hands off biodiesel processor. Don't re-engineer the TDI motor or fuel system!

I think "some" people can run ok on WVO, but if you start slipping on temps, purge times, etc, you are asking for problems. And over time, people tend to get lazy.

Running bio, you only really need to make sure you produce quality fuel (which is not hard to do) and watch the outside temps. You will still save alot of money at $.50-$1.00 a gallon for bio and not have as many worries concerning the motor.

As long as you understand and accept the risks, its your money. WVO aside, you can still get a good deal on a rebuilt. Just depends on the damage and why it is a rebuilt.

If you plan on selling it down the road, it may not be worth it. Up to you to make the call. Its your money.

Lug_Nut · Aug 29, 2007

For me, a WVO kit, even one "properly" developed and installed, (or even evidence of one having been installed and then removed), drops my perceived value of a TDI lower than any salvage title would.

horsieclatter · Aug 29, 2007

biodiesel! biodiesel! ra! ra! ra! buy the car, if it is worth having, and brew your own fuel...

your honest opinion (value of a TDI)

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