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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old August 21st, 2006, 18:07   #1
bwlyon
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Default 4 speed automatic transmission fluid

I have a 2002 Jetta GLS TDI with an automatic transmission. Has anyone used anything other than the Volkswagen Transmission Fluid, in their Volkswagen. On a trip to the local Oreilly's today I found several different types of fluid, ie: ATF+3, ATF+4, and a host of synthetics and the regular domestic stuff Type F, Mercon III, IV, V. I am new to this Volkswagen thing as I have just purchased my first one last week.
Thanks for helping, Brad
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 05:13   #2
charlie75
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Use the volkswagen stuff!

The risk to your volkswagen transmission using a non-VW approved fluid, IMHO, doesn't justify the difference in cost for other transmission fluids.
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 09:17   #3
daveman
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Default Use the Volkswagen fluid

I recently spoke to a dealer about changing the tranny fluid. There are a couple important things to note, you must use the OEM VW fluid because it has properties that let the computer sense how full your tranny is. Also, changing the tranny fluid in your car is not an easy process. The fluid is difficult to pour into the tranny, but whats worse is that you have no idea how much to put in because there is no dipstick. The level can only be measured with the diagnostics computer plugged in, and furthermore you can only get an accurate reading when the tranny fluid is within a certain temperature range (35 - 45 degrees celsius). I am unsure if VAG-COM has the capability of sensing the tranny fluid level. The dealer I went to uses a different computer.

All in all, its probably a better idea to just have a qualified shop do it.
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Old August 22nd, 2006, 09:23   #4
cattlerepairman
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Default tranny fluid change

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveman
I recently spoke to a dealer about changing the tranny fluid. There are a couple important things to note, you must use the OEM VW fluid because it has properties that let the computer sense how full your tranny is. Also, changing the tranny fluid in your car is not an easy process. The fluid is difficult to pour into the tranny, but whats worse is that you have no idea how much to put in because there is no dipstick. The level can only be measured with the diagnostics computer plugged in, and furthermore you can only get an accurate reading when the tranny fluid is within a certain temperature range (35 - 45 degrees celsius). I am unsure if VAG-COM has the capability of sensing the tranny fluid level. The dealer I went to uses a different computer.

All in all, its probably a better idea to just have a qualified shop do it.
There is soo much info in the HOW TO section....
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=288052
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Old August 24th, 2006, 19:18   #5
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You can use any Dex III fluid you want. We have put Amsoil Universal ATF in many VW autos. The problem comes in if the thing has never been serviced before and you have a lot of miles on it.


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Old August 28th, 2006, 12:48   #6
richieracket
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just going to pass along some info--please set the torches on stun only.
Have an 02' Jetta tdi here with tons of metal in the pan and bad reverse, only 81k. So i'm calling all the suppliers and shops i can getting prices and info on a reman. 3 separate suppliers have told me Pentosian IS the problem. They have a bulletin from an independent lab stating pentosian does not respond well under superheated conditions and toasts the trans, thus creating the abundant premature trans failures. Two have told me they will rebuild and refill with only a reputalbe synthetic fluid, and will not use pentosin even if i supply it. It will void their warranty. They insist they have been implementing this procedure for years with no adverse affects and no returning transmissions.
Let the execution begin.
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Old August 28th, 2006, 15:21   #7
wjdell
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Vag com will tell the the temperature and I just got VAS 6262 and I will post pictures soon - I am pretty sure many will be able to make it.

I will start looking for the parts soon and see if its feasible for members to make the tool themselves.

If you do decided to change your fluid there is a HOW TO on this forum NOW MAKE SURE YOU VERIFY YOUR TRANS TYPE.

I only know about the DSG and the fill procedure is a little strange. In my case I wait for a constant drip if that makes any sense.
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Old September 1st, 2006, 09:11   #8
AlanTDI
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"Two have told me they will rebuild and refill with only a reputalbe synthetic fluid"

Any idea which ATF fluid they recommed or use?
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Old September 1st, 2006, 14:21   #9
ScorpionBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richieracket
just going to pass along some info--please set the torches on stun only.
Have an 02' Jetta tdi here with tons of metal in the pan and bad reverse, only 81k. So i'm calling all the suppliers and shops i can getting prices and info on a reman. 3 separate suppliers have told me Pentosian IS the problem. They have a bulletin from an independent lab stating pentosian does not respond well under superheated conditions and toasts the trans, thus creating the abundant premature trans failures. Two have told me they will rebuild and refill with only a reputalbe synthetic fluid, and will not use pentosin even if i supply it. It will void their warranty. They insist they have been implementing this procedure for years with no adverse affects and no returning transmissions.
Let the execution begin.
that is very interesting.
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Old September 1st, 2006, 20:45   #10
richieracket
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just got the car back today--$3400. Filled with Penzoil fully synthetic trans fluid. all is well. My sister keeps her cars forever, so i will be able to monitor the results and durabilty using a fully synthetic aftermarket fluid. The shop also uses mopar spec ATF+4 in these trannys. Says additive pak and syn qualities are also very useful in vw trans. I requested the synthetic.
keep ya posted.
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Old September 1st, 2006, 22:30   #11
Fortuna Wolf
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richieracket, I'm just curious. What was the breakdown on the bill?
How much to reman the transmission, and how much to remove and reinstall it?
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Old September 2nd, 2006, 04:09   #12
Rob Mayercik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richieracket
just going to pass along some info--please set the torches on stun only.
Have an 02' Jetta tdi here with tons of metal in the pan and bad reverse, only 81k. So i'm calling all the suppliers and shops i can getting prices and info on a reman. 3 separate suppliers have told me Pentosian IS the problem. They have a bulletin from an independent lab stating pentosian does not respond well under superheated conditions and toasts the trans, thus creating the abundant premature trans failures. Two have told me they will rebuild and refill with only a reputalbe synthetic fluid, and will not use pentosin even if i supply it. It will void their warranty. They insist they have been implementing this procedure for years with no adverse affects and no returning transmissions.
Let the execution begin.
To echo ScorpionBoy, most interesting. I wonder who this lab is, and how it was that they came to investigate the VW ATF? I also wonder if any other labs have verified their claims, or if they're the "lone wolf".

Perhaps the issue isn't the fluid, but rather the mechanism by which the transmission is cooled - if the "superheated" condition didn't occur, perhaps the VW juice would be okay.

Of course, if memory serves the 01M 4-spd on MK4 vehicles is plumbed into the engine coolant system, instead of the more traditional way where there's a separate trans. fluid cooler in the radiator. I can't imagine how you could run an auxilliary transmission cooler without overcooling the engine (which usually isn't good for the engine). This would also suggest that if you were to have a severe engine overheating condition, the tranny could end up getting cooked as well (collateral damage).

I always thought it was interesting how VW chose to deal with transmission cooling on the MK4s, but until you posted this, I never really thought much about the implications in terms of heat.

Rob

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Old September 2nd, 2006, 07:07   #13
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OK--the breakdown is from memory as it is my sister's car and she went up and got it and the bill. Talking to Dan (the shop owner) the bill went something like this: R&R trans $350. Tear down, inspect, rebuild with soft parts $1350 and the balance was hard parts: total solenoid pack with updated cable, torque convertor, reverse something (sprague ) blah, blah. Total was not $3800 but in actuality came to $3250.

This is not the first time I've heard chatter regarding the pentosin fluid, but I cannot answer the question about the labs bias or lack of bias. I do agree however, the cooler is certainly an issue. I am presently going to search out the issue and see if anyone has come up with a method of getting that fluid to an appropriate air cooled system . Plumbing this in has got to be interesting.
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Old September 2nd, 2006, 09:54   #14
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I've been using the Quaker STate Multi Vehicle stuff for about 50,000km's now. No issues
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Old September 2nd, 2006, 18:15   #15
Fortuna Wolf
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I am thinking that if you have any performance mods or drive the car with the TC often unlocked you might want to look into either changing the fluid or putting another transmission fluid cooler on it.
On top of the trans there is a heat exchanger attached with two banjo bolts. Coolant lines go into this. It should be possible to remove this cooler and replace it with another one of your choice.
When I changed my fluid it looked virgin, so I'm not particularly worried about my trans.
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