HELP: front strut issue

rbptdi · Dec 15, 2017

Hi all,

New-to-me '01 Golf, just failed inspection for front strut mounts.

Top of struts sitting way too high, up out of cups. Is it just worn bushings, down below? They don't look so bad.

Or is it a missing part, or something installed upside down? I want to know what I'm doing before I go into that cold with a wrench again.

I do have fresh bushings and bearings in hand.

Thanks,

Rolf in MA

jokila · Dec 15, 2017

Sounds like it's the upper bushings, but without pics hard to say. You can replace them without removing the struts.

http://www.fixmyvw.com/front-strut-bushings-and-strut-bearing-replacement-vw-mk4-a4-fast-and-easy/

rbptdi · Dec 15, 2017

Thanks for the link. Pics should be there now?

oilhammer · Dec 15, 2017

That is a bad picture, the lower one looks like the spring is broken or something.

Remember, the mounts on these cars do not "attach" to the body. They just fit in a socket, and the weight of the car keeps them in place. When the car is lifted up, the little metal dish on top keeps the strut assembly from falling out.

I know a lot of shops do not realize this, and think something is wrong when it isn't. But it would appear something is indeed wrong with yours. From your two pictures, I would suggest replacement of the struts, springs, mounts, jounce stoppers, and bearings.

DavidMTroyer · Dec 15, 2017

One thing I never understood about these mounts, is it just the weight of the car that keeps the bushing in the body-side of the mount? The cup doesn't seem to be tightened down to where it sandwiches everything in place.

Edit: LOL. I was literally typing this out at the same time as oilhammer.... question answered!

oilhammer · Dec 15, 2017

Yes, they started doing it that way way back with the A2 cars in 1985. A3s and A4s are the same way. Sometimes the mount sticks in the body when you lift the car up, sometimes it drops out. When they drop out is when the confusion starts, if you did not understand that was normal for them.

DavidMTroyer · Dec 15, 2017

I agree that something looks weird in the bottom picture. Shouldn't the bearing at the bottom of the bushing be what compresses the spring, with a plate sandwiched in between?

jokila · Dec 15, 2017

Is the car jacked up with the weight of the car off the tire? It appears to me the strut bearing is broken(and maybe more things are wrong than that). You can see evidence of this in the first pic.

rbptdi · Dec 15, 2017

The plate is there atop the spring. But the PO did install a MetalNerd lift kit.

I just checked my other 01 Golf, no lift, and there is no space between top of plate and bottom of bearing. On the Golf in question, there is a significant space.

I am guessing that the MetalNerd sleeve goes between the top of the plate and the bottom of the bearing. Definitely the 2" kit.

http://www.metalnerd.com/vwaudi-accessories/lift-kits

So I don't think it's cause for undue alarm. Probably, like y'all said, just a worn bushing. Will replace tomorrow and report back.

rbptdi · Dec 15, 2017

Definitely no broken springs or struts. But I do have both if I needed to replace.

Talked to MetalNerd. They confirmed 2" spacer fits between plate and bearing. Hence the unusual clearance.

BobnOH · Dec 15, 2017

Your spring is delaminating, they may or may not be long for this world.

rbptdi · Dec 15, 2017

Jokila, did you mean the bearing or the *bushing* is broken? I am assuming very worn bushing.

By 'evidence' did you mean the bits of shredded rubber (?) you can see protruding from under the cup?

rbptdi · Dec 15, 2017

BobnOH, thanks. Like I said, I have fresh springs and struts ready to go. Just didn't want to throw them in until spring.

For now, just looking to pass inspection.

rbptdi · Dec 15, 2017

Sure seems like a weird design. That bearing is trying to punch through that bushing with every excursion.

The bushing is rubber, the bearing metal. Isn't that a recipe or rapid wear?

Do you guys grease the surfaces at all? Anything I can do to reduce wear-rate?

Wouldn't it be better to have a lining inside the bushing, where the bearing hits, to distribute forces and protect the rubber? Maybe nylon or teflon?

DavidMTroyer · Dec 15, 2017

I just bought some to do mine and the bearings I got are in some sort of heavy duty plastic housing.

jokila · Dec 15, 2017

rbptdi said:
Sure seems like a weird design. That bearing is trying to punch through that bushing with every excursion.

The bushing is rubber, the bearing metal. Isn't that a recipe or rapid wear?

Do you guys grease the surfaces at all? Anything I can do to reduce wear-rate?

Wouldn't it be better to have a lining inside the bushing, where the bearing hits, to distribute forces and protect the rubber? Maybe nylon or teflon?

The bearing looks broken as I see the small ball bearings exposed. The bearing is a smooth shell of some plastic looking material. Here is a close up from idparts.com. It goes right under the hard rubber bushing and on top of the metal plate that holds the coil spring in place. A shouldered nut holds the bushing to the bearing, and then to the plate.

Look around 13:30 onward in this video for how it goes together.

rbptdi · Dec 16, 2017

Yes, I studied the schematic, I know how it goes together.

Took the top 2 nuts off, driver's side. The top nut is correct, bottom is NOT.

Looks almost like a nylon lock nut from the hardware store. No shoulder. Grrr.

Blacktree · Dec 16, 2017

oilhammer said:
Yes, they started doing it that way way back with the A2 cars in 1985. A3s and A4s are the same way. Sometimes the mount sticks in the body when you lift the car up, sometimes it drops out. When they drop out is when the confusion starts, if you did not understand that was normal for them.

Thanks for the explanation. I thought there was something wrong with my car. Heh...

rbptdi · Dec 16, 2017

Old bushing pretty squished.

slevang · Dec 16, 2017

One shouldered nut and one non-shouldered is correct, but if I am understanding your description it sounds like they were put on in the wrong order. See here for photos:
http://www.fixmyvw.com/front-strut-bushings-and-strut-bearing-replacement-vw-mk4-a4-fast-and-easy/
It is probably important that the lower nut be the shouldered one, so it supports the full surface of the bearing. I think this is why the upper case of your bearing looks busted in the first photo.

Your springs are losing their coating but they can go a while like that, so you could put it off until spring.

rbptdi · Dec 16, 2017

Correct. PO had shoulder nut on top.

Back together. Much better. Note 2" lift spacer.

Bearing sits like a washer on top of the strut shaft shoulder.

How are you supposed to torque these things to 44lbs? Can't hold the 7mm hex still with any kind of torque wrench on either nut...

rbptdi · Dec 16, 2017

Apparently the passenger's side is harder b/c the frame gets in the way. Any tips on that?

rbptdi · Dec 16, 2017

BTW, the shoulder nut fits just fine through the bushing (new or old).

No need to swap nuts per DIY linked above.

rbptdi · Dec 16, 2017

Axle hits frame. Why not just pry down on the spring a bit? Just need to woodgie that old bushing out...

indysoto · Dec 16, 2017

rbptdi said:
Axle hits frame. Why not just pry down on the spring a bit? Just need to woodgie that old bushing out...

Dunno if my remembery is serving me right but either turn wheels all the way to the left and slip the cv out the hub or take the front and rear inner a arm bolts out give you more room to take it out.

slevang · Dec 16, 2017

That's where spring compressors come in handy. If you can't manage to slip it out or get compressors, some people drop the subframe just a 1/2" or so which gives clearance, as an alternative to messing with the axle.

I don't think moving the control arm gets you anything, and brings in the risk of breaking off the captive nut inside the subframe.

rbptdi · Dec 16, 2017

I had good luck just prying on the top of the spring with a 2x3 to get the old bushing out. Trying to get the new one back in now. Stand by.

rbptdi · Dec 16, 2017

All set. Good as new. Tight and quiet. Too bad the inspection place closed at 1pm.

No 'shredded bearings' at all, btw. Just a little twisted rubber. Everything was normal, but worn, with nuts flipped.

The 2x3 pry worked for me, but only b/c I had the lift kit. YMMV

Thanks for all the help, crew!

rbptdi · Dec 16, 2017

Only problem is, now I can hear the rear mounts.

UhOh · Dec 16, 2017

Excellent work!

HELP: front strut issue

Veteran Member

Vendor

Veteran Member

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor

Veteran Member

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor

Veteran Member

Vendor

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

not-a-mechanic

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Vendor

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Well-known member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Well-known member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg