Hate to ask this here

79TA7.6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Location
Live: Wilbur/Creston; Work: Moses Lake Washington
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
I am sorry for asking this gasser question here, but I do not know where to go. My dad bought my younger brother a 2002 Passat 1.8T just a couple of days ago. It has 104000 miles and I think the timing belt needs to be replaced as he does not know the history on it. I am going to talk to Aaron (BleachedBora) in the morning about the kit. I already emailed him and he said he has it, he just likes talking to a guy in person, I just think this is great. What I need to know is if anyone has seen a write up for the TB change like we have for our TDIs. That write up was a life saver when I changed my belt. I will make sure that he gets the Bentley for the car as well. (OK, I just found a write up on passatworld, but they still use white out to mark for the belt.) Do I need any special tools? I was doing some light reading on passatworld.com and it looks like the guys over there were recommending using the mark and pray technique. After doing my TB I would not think that would be a good way for doing any TB.

If anyone has any input or can point me in a good direction I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks
Michael
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
... None :S
I assisted doing this on my dad's 1.8t passat. Get the bently, it will make everything easier. I got the full timing belt kit from ECS Tuning. Because I replaced the water pump I drained the coolant and disconnected the radiator, allowing me to swing the whole front of the car out of the way. It made chaning the belt very easy. After you tension the belt and pull the pin on the tensioner's damper don't expect it to move up much, it's just there to make up for belt stretch.

-Jason
 

79TA7.6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Location
Live: Wilbur/Creston; Work: Moses Lake Washington
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
Sip'n,
I have been there looking around and all I really see is a lot of whining and bickering. I will be honest though, I have not looked to see if they do have good info of the TB change though. I was just hoping that some of these greatly nice people here might be able to help.
 

79TA7.6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Location
Live: Wilbur/Creston; Work: Moses Lake Washington
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
Jason,
Did this pin come with the kit? I am planning on replacing everything that touches the belt just as I did in my TDI, so the pump will get replaced too. I am really hoping that I can get the kit from Aaron as he helped me greatly with my last belt change. He has ben great to deal with. I will call him in the morning, noon his time, and see what his kit will consist of.
 

BleachedBora

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Location
Gresham, Oregon
TDI
'81 DMC-12, '15 GL350 CDI 275 hp/448 tq - '81 Caddy CJAA, '05 E320 CDI 250hp/450 tq, '23 ID4 AWD Pro S Plus
Pin comes with the tensioner :)

Edit, Jason beat me to it!
 

TDICADDGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
2012 BMW X5 35D
From my understanding, mark and pray is "okay" on a gasser since they don't have the lockdown tools that there are for a TDI. Also the belt tension/routing don't require sprockets to be free to rotate during tensioning of the belt.

Take this with a grain of salt though since I've never even looked at a 1.8T.
 

79TA7.6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Location
Live: Wilbur/Creston; Work: Moses Lake Washington
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
Aaron,
I got to thinking, I will be in a meeting from 9-10 pacific time. Are you one or two hours ahead of me? Either way I will find the time to call you.

Leicaman,
I read about the sludge issue with this motor. I will most definatly let my dad know. His wife has a Mercedes so they probably know about the synthetic.
 

79TA7.6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Location
Live: Wilbur/Creston; Work: Moses Lake Washington
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
Ok, I was looking at the ECSTuning site and there are a lot of different motor codes in these B5s. How I tell which one is in my brother's car? All I know about it at the moment is that it is a 2002 and it is an automatic. I think my dad said something about a dual overhead cam. Do they all have DOHC or did my dad look at something wrong?
 

Matthew_S

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Location
Renton/Redmond, WA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS galactic blue
The engine code should be AWM and all 1.8ts are DOHC. The 1.8t is one of the easiest engine to accidentally get the timing belt a tooth off. It will probably drive you crazy because the timing marks will usually never line up. After you have done a few you figure it out but the first one can be frustrating.
 

BleachedBora

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Location
Gresham, Oregon
TDI
'81 DMC-12, '15 GL350 CDI 275 hp/448 tq - '81 Caddy CJAA, '05 E320 CDI 250hp/450 tq, '23 ID4 AWD Pro S Plus
I'm an hour ahead :).
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Engine code is on the tab on the front of the cylinder head (you will need to remove the cover to see it, or at least pull it up). 2002 B5 will be the AWM though.

This engine has no pins or anything, so it can be tricky to get the belt lined up with the marks. It is easiest to put the lower pulley back on, so that you can use its mark and the reference mark on the t-belt cover.

The B5 1.8t is by far WAY easier than the A4, due to the fact that you can pull the whole front end loose and do not have to fuss with the mount bracket...which is a pain with the 1.8t's bolt-on tensioner assembly.

I would also pull the valve cover and check for sludging, and check the timing chain tensioner (cam phaser) for wear in the guide shoes. Because if that chain tensioner/chain needs to be replaced, now will be the time to do it, since the cams have to come out.
 

diesel-dave

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Location
earth
TDI
2003 wagon TDI, 2003 wagon Tdi, 2013 Q7 Tdi
Ya i saw that, these cams are run by a chain opposite side of timing belt and the timing belt runs a single sprocket up top.

im used to the 4g63 dohc motors.

are those chains an issue?

just curious
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The chains on the 1.8t are generally not an issue, it is the tensioners. However, when I replace the tensioner I always install a new chain anyways.
 

79TA7.6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Location
Live: Wilbur/Creston; Work: Moses Lake Washington
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
Is the head cover gasket like the TDI, built into the cover, or do I need to buy a new gasket? I would like to do this all in one smooth swoop. To do this we might have to have my step mom's mercedes outside and I know she dont like ot do that.

This should be a fun project. I had my dad be my parts/tool fetcher last time. This time it will be my little bro. He knows nothing about cars, so maybe this will peak his interest a little. He is the type of kid that runs his skate board all over town. He did not even want to get his license. I couldnt turn 16 fast enough. Oh well.

Thanks for all the advice and the heads up. oilhammer, It seems you have done a few of these. Are you an independent shop? I could look it up, but i figure you are here so I will come out and ask. I might send you the link for the how to over on passatworld that I found and see if it sounds right to you if you wouldnt mind looking it over. I would not be a happy camper if I get partway into it and find out someone smoked their breakfast before going out and writing a how to.

edit: That did not take too long. Here is the link: http://www.passatworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167704
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Gasket is seperate, and the chain tensioner (if you decide to replace it) will NOT come with a gasket either.

Also, while poking around under the hood, carefully check all the one-way check valves (there are lots) especially the one next to the purge solenoid atop the air cleaner. Those like to rot away, and will cause evap DTCs and mixture control DTCs.

If you find the valve cover's undersides are especially sludgy, I would pull the breather box apart (under the intake) and clean that out, and if it is REALLY sludgy, take the oil pan off and clean out the pickup screen.

Also, keep in mind these engines should run 5w40 502.00 oil, and should be using the larger spin-on oil filter (the same one the AHU TDI uses).

Yes, I have done oodles of these, and yes I work at a shop. I know the AWM engine very well.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
That write up you linked by the way is totally useless for you. Early B5. 50% different car, 90% different engine.

Do NOT go by that procedure.

1.8ts confuse a lot of people, because there are so many different engine codes for them. But as a general rule, they can be lumped into 2 categories: EA827-based and EA113-based. The early B5 (through early 2001) uses an EA827 1.8t, which is the same family as the AHU TDI. The late B5 (late 2001+) and ALL A4 cars use the EA113 1.8t, which is the same family as the ALH TDI.

FWIW, the EA113 engines are simpler.
 

79TA7.6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Location
Live: Wilbur/Creston; Work: Moses Lake Washington
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
Oilhammer, you are great. Does the Bently explain the procedure good enough? I would like to have color pics of the process, but I am not going to not do it because I do not have them. I just find it easier to work with that way, especially the first time around. I figure I will have a couple of weeks before I will work on this as I will not have time til the weekend of the 13th. I will try to keep this thread alive, so long as no one gets upset about having a gasser thread in our TDI forum. If someone does not like it please let me know and I will have it closed down if there is a legit reason. I just trust this forum more than I do any other forum.

Thanks
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Gasser VWs are always welcome here. :)

I do not sure what exact stuff the Bentley shows, may not have a bunch of color pictures. But really it is not too bad of a job.

Remove the grill (you gotta remove the secondary hood release rod).

Remove the front bumper skin (gotta disconnect the side marker and fog lamp connectors as you pull it off).

Loosen the charge air hoses from both sides of the crossover pipe.

If it is an autobox, I find it easier to remove the ATF cooler lines (cap them off).

Remove the air inlet tube going to the air cleaner from the front carrier.

Remove the PS fluid reservoir cover, and unclip/unplug the wire connectors there, and unplug both headlamp harness connectors.

Drain the coolant (drain is exposed after bumper cover is removed).

Hang loose the PS cooler pipe, horns, and radiator upper hose.

Remove the 7 Torx bolts holding the lock carrier assembly in place, replacing one on each side temporarily with an extra long 8mm x 1.25 bolt and slide the entire lock carrier assembly forward.

Remove the clutch-driven fan (if euipped, some AWMs have them, some do not). Remove the accessory belts.

Remove the upper timing belt cover (you will need to move a vacuum hose and small coolant hose out of the way to gain clearance.

Set #1 DTC by lining up mark on cam sprocket with mark on valve cover (straight up) and the mark on the crank pulley with mark on lower cover.

Remove the crank pulley and lower cover.

Remove the timing belt, the tensioner, damper, and the water pump.

Install the new water pump, loosely install the timing belt on the crank sprocket, then put the lower cover and crank pulley back in place.

Line the crank mark back up, put the new tensioner on, while putting the belt over the cam sprocket and sliding the damper assembly in from the side (it sorta only fits one way, with a little tab that slides under the front flange seal down low). Then put both the bolts in place. You will need to hold the tensioner pulley up as you slide the damper under its little 'foot' (you'll see what I mean, study it before you take it apart).

Once all in place, check your marks, make sure the belt's slack is all to the pass. side where the tensioner is. Pretension the belt, use a 6mm Allen as a spacer (the manual will have a pic of this). Once all said and done, pull the little clip off the damper and it will come out and hold pressure.

Rotate the engine around once by hand and double check your marks.

Then reassemble everything else, taking care to line the lock carrier back up with the marks from the 7 bolts' washers.

Bleeding the cooling system can be tricky, but I have found patience and heat cycles above all else does the trick. The bleed port in the heater hose I have found does not do as much as you'd think.

Much of the procedure is similar to the BHW, and some of that (with pics) can be found on this side regarding the BS upgrade.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Oh, forgot about removal of the intercooler's guide duct. That is pretty easy, take that off after the bumper skin is removed.
 

diesel-dave

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Location
earth
TDI
2003 wagon TDI, 2003 wagon Tdi, 2013 Q7 Tdi
those engines get sludgy with the wrong oil right hammer?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
diesel-dave said:
those engines get sludgy with the wrong oil right hammer?
Wrong oil, crappy filters, not keeping it topped up, going too long, yes, lots of things can come together to make the 1.8t a sludger.

The EA827 based ones (like the AEB) were much worse though.
 

jasonTDI

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Apr 26, 2001
Location
Oregon, WI
TDI
20' RAM 3500 CCLB dually HO/Aisan. 2019 Cherokee 2.0T
Just did an AEB last friday. Fun....the later ones are a lot faster.
 

79TA7.6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Location
Live: Wilbur/Creston; Work: Moses Lake Washington
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
Hey Aaron, check your email. I sent you some info for my brothers car along with a way for you to contact my dad about the parts payment. I would like to get this stuff ordered so I can venture into the gas world of VW. :)
 

BleachedBora

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Location
Gresham, Oregon
TDI
'81 DMC-12, '15 GL350 CDI 275 hp/448 tq - '81 Caddy CJAA, '05 E320 CDI 250hp/450 tq, '23 ID4 AWD Pro S Plus
Yup, you're responded too!

Gotta get up in 3.5 hours to fly to Charlotte!
-BB
 

diesel-dave

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Location
earth
TDI
2003 wagon TDI, 2003 wagon Tdi, 2013 Q7 Tdi
oilhammer said:
Wrong oil, crappy filters, not keeping it topped up, going too long, yes, lots of things can come together to make the 1.8t a sludger.

The EA827 based ones (like the AEB) were much worse though.

ya heard soo many complaints, plus a few friends bought them used from the dealer and had many issues, then got rid of them, its too bad, seems to be a neat motor.
 
Top