B20 in a 2010 VW Jetta TDI

aztecboi

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2010 VW Jetta TDI
After now owning my 2010 Jetta TDI for 15 months and only using Propels B5 Biodiesel since I bought it, I have finally decided that I want to upgrade to using their B20 Biodiesel blend. Anyone else out there have a 2009+ VW Jetta TDI running B20 or higher? If so, how is your car running? Have you had any fuel related problems with the car since using B20? Just want to get a few opinions before I fill up for the first time with B20. Thanks!
 

Lightflyer1

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A search in alt fuels forum would get you some hits. As you know 5% is the VW limit. Some have used up to 20%, but I'll leave the search up to you as I haven't followed it for awhile.
 

aztecboi

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2010 VW Jetta TDI
Why do you want to run B20?
Everyone has their own opinions about biodiesel and the different blends of it. In my opinion, B20 will help extend engine life and increase performance. Its much more lubricating than regular ultra low sulfur diesel which will allow the engine to run smoother. Also, B20 has a higher cetane rating than regular diesel for more engine efficiency and easier starting. I'm also looking to do my part for the environment by reducing harmful emissions like CO2 into the environment.
 

Elfnmagik

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I'm aware of its lubricating as well as its solvency properties. Higher amounts of bio can, during post combustion injections, end up diluting engine oil and thereby causing deterioration and may have a longterm effect on the DPF as well. It's why most here go for a B2 blend which is plenty of lubrication, then supplement with an additive for extra cetane, water mitigation, cleaners, etc.
 

VeeDubTDI

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Sweet! Another biodiesel in a commonrail thread. I'm moving this to Alt Fuels.
 

torqueit

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I suspect VW will eventually approve use of B20 but may require more frequent oil changes due to fuel absorbsion.

Run it if you want, but I'd recommend oil analysis to be on the safe side. The lubricity benefits pretty much level off at B2.
 

aztecboi

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2010 VW Jetta TDI
I suspect VW will eventually approve use of B20 but may require more frequent oil changes due to fuel absorbsion.
Run it if you want, but I'd recommend oil analysis to be on the safe side. The lubricity benefits pretty much level off at B2.
I think VW will approve B20 sooner than later too. They are already testing B20 in all their clean diesel engines. I use a biodiesel made by Propel Fuels. They back their fuels 100%. If you go on their website, www.propelfuels.com, you can see all the supporting PDF files where B20 has been tested and oil analysis has been done and it shows that it's still within spec without changing oil change intervals. GMC, Chevy, and Ford already endorse B20. I don't know why VW, Audi, BMW, and Mercedes are having such a hard time endorsing B20.
 

VeeDubTDI

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All of the big trucks use AdBlue, which significantly reduces the use of post-injection with a subsequent reduction in oil dilution.
 

JungleDeath

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I use B20 in my 2011. My source is Bently Biofuels. The engine is smoother, quieter, and has lately returned better fuel economy. The better fe, in my opinion (read: guess) is because there are fewer dpf regenerations. About 2 miles before I get to work is a 30mph zone to a 15mph zone and then 25mph the rest of the way (school zones). The fans are not running when I go to park like they have on straight D2.

I'm just shy of 7000 miles right now. I will get an oil analysis at my first oil change. I suggest you do the same. Why?

1. For your piece of mind
2. It will shut people up ;)

I could check the # of regens w/ vcds. I don't know how but I will look into that. Also I could check the dipstick oil level.

I would like to bench b20 regens against D2 regens and see what surfaces.
 

aztecboi

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San Jose, CA
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2010 VW Jetta TDI
I use B20 in my 2011. My source is Bently Biofuels. The engine is smoother, quieter, and has lately returned better fuel economy. The better fe, in my opinion (read: guess) is because there are fewer dpf regenerations. About 2 miles before I get to work is a 30mph zone to a 15mph zone and then 25mph the rest of the way (school zones). The fans are not running when I go to park like they have on straight D2.
I'm just shy of 7000 miles right now. I will get an oil analysis at my first oil change. I suggest you do the same. Why?
1. For your piece of mind
2. It will shut people up ;)
I could check the # of regens w/ vcds. I don't know how but I will look into that. Also I could check the dipstick oil level.
I would like to bench b20 regens against D2 regens and see what surfaces.
I have been running the B5 since I bought the car. So far, I have not been able to figure out if the car is on a consistent DPF Regen cycle. I can always tell when it's going through a cycle because it idles a bit higher and the fans are running. My car only has 12k on it. I do the maintenance when the reminder comes up on the instrument panel. According to VW, it's only required every 10k. I did the first oil change at 8k. I'm using the Amsoil Synthetic European Car Formula. It's a great synthetic oil and meets VW's oil specifications. I have checked the dip stick level since changing the oil and the oil level is still where it needs to be.
 

kjclow

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I don't think there is a consistant regen cycle; i.e. it starts every x miles. It has to do with the soot load and the operating temp of the engine. If you get out and run it at highway speeds, you may never get a passive regen.
 

740GLE

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There's a milage trigger as well as load trigger, which ever occurs first.

BTW on the highway up to speed and on long enough trips you're always doing a passive regen. There's a balance point where the soot is being burned off as its accumulating.
 

donDavide

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Everyone has their own opinions about biodiesel and the different blends of it. In my opinion, B20 will help extend engine life and increase performance. Its much more lubricating than regular ultra low sulfur diesel which will allow the engine to run smoother. Also, B20 has a higher cetane rating than regular diesel for more engine efficiency and easier starting. I'm also looking to do my part for the environment by reducing harmful emissions like CO2 into the environment.
CO2 is not a harmful gas or a pollutant. B20 is a downgrade, you will lose mpg also, well I always did in PD and VE motors
 
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MonsterTDI09

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Do you know that the air is cleaner coming out of your tail pipe that is going is going in.Just run D2 or B5.
 

pleopard

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CO2 is not a harmful gas or a pollutant. B20 is a downgrade, you will lose mpg also, well I always did in PD and VE motors
First of all, biodiesel combustion does emit CO2 into the atmosphere. The difference is that biofuels are carbon neutral, assuming the source from which the fuel originates is managed sustainably. Secondly, CO2 is a greenhouse gas, meaning it prevents energy from escaping the atmosphere. Thirdly, CO2 is harmful in the sense that if you're exposed to elevated levels of it in an enclosed environment, you will die...
 

kjclow

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First of all, biodiesel combustion does emit CO2 into the atmosphere. The difference is that biofuels are carbon neutral, assuming the source from which the fuel originates is managed sustainably. Secondly, CO2 is a greenhouse gas, meaning it prevents energy from escaping the atmosphere. Thirdly, CO2 is harmful in the sense that if you're exposed to elevated levels of it in an enclosed environment, you will die...
Wrong on at least the final comment. Carbon dioxide (CO2) is only harmful to the extent that too much can make you light headed. Try breathing into and from a paper bag for several minutes. Carbon dioxide is a by-product of our respiration and is larger than the oxygen (O2) that we require for life and can therefore not be adsorbed into the blood stream.

Carbon Monoxide (CO) is the harmful gas that is smaller in size than oxygen and can be absorbed into the blood stream at hte replacement of oxygen. CO is a mainly by-product of cumbustion with ozygen and carbon being combined from the fuel source and air. Once the CO has been absorbed into the blood stream, it will keep oxygen from being absorbed. Thus leading to the organs shutting down from being deprived of oxygen.
 

pleopard

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Actually, CO2 can kill you by asphyxiation or hypercapnia (i.e. SIDS), but this isn't as common as CO poisoning. The effect that causes lightheadedness isn't just something to laugh about and assume is completely benign. CO2 is absorbed into the bloodstream as well.
 
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TomB

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I use B20 in my 2011. My source is Bently Biofuels. The engine is smoother, quieter, and has lately returned better fuel economy. The better fe, in my opinion (read: guess) is because there are fewer dpf regenerations. About 2 miles before I get to work is a 30mph zone to a 15mph zone and then 25mph the rest of the way (school zones). The fans are not running when I go to park like they have on straight D2.

I'm just shy of 7000 miles right now. I will get an oil analysis at my first oil change. I suggest you do the same. Why?

1. For your piece of mind
2. It will shut people up ;)

I could check the # of regens w/ vcds. I don't know how but I will look into that. Also I could check the dipstick oil level.

I would like to bench b20 regens against D2 regens and see what surfaces.
Yep and once you do that you will see there is an issue with it. Please post that report asap.

I ran b100, b50, and b20 in the Jeep CRD Cherokee for a test doing the UOA and it diluted the oil within 1000 miles with ALL of the blends. I am a B100 supporter and user, but saw the FACTS of the oil dilution.

I would NOT wait the 7500 miles since that will be too late and damage to the cams will already be done.

By the way, check your dipstick level regularly. If dilution is occuring the level will go up and if you used to use oil it will not drop anymore.

Please post that UOA analysis asap that you get it. Would love to see the results here.

Trust me when I say I want to be proven wrong, but based on my experience with B20 in the CRD it is a no go.
 
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TomB

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Wrong on at least the final comment. Carbon dioxide (CO2) is only harmful to the extent that too much can make you light headed. Try breathing into and from a paper bag for several minutes. Carbon dioxide is a by-product of our respiration and is larger than the oxygen (O2) that we require for life and can therefore not be adsorbed into the blood stream.

Carbon Monoxide (CO) is the harmful gas that is smaller in size than oxygen and can be absorbed into the blood stream at hte replacement of oxygen. CO is a mainly by-product of cumbustion with ozygen and carbon being combined from the fuel source and air. Once the CO has been absorbed into the blood stream, it will keep oxygen from being absorbed. Thus leading to the organs shutting down from being deprived of oxygen.
COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG! Why do spacecraft and submarines have CO2 scrubbers? To REMOVE the CO2 before it gets to toxic levels. DUH! Even with tons of oxygen, once the CO2 reaches a level you DIE.
 

TomB

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Actually, CO2 can kill you by asphyxiation or hypercapnia (i.e. SIDS), but this isn't as common as CO poisoning. The effect that causes lightheadedness isn't just something to laugh about and assume is completely benign. CO2 is absorbed into the bloodstream as well.
It causes changes in the blood stream with the PH which is not good for you either.
 

CsTDI

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I use B20 in my 2011. My source is Bently Biofuels. The engine is smoother, quieter, and has lately returned better fuel economy. The better fe, in my opinion (read: guess) is because there are fewer dpf regenerations. About 2 miles before I get to work is a 30mph zone to a 15mph zone and then 25mph the rest of the way (school zones). The fans are not running when I go to park like they have on straight D2.

I'm just shy of 7000 miles right now. I will get an oil analysis at my first oil change. I suggest you do the same. Why?

1. For your piece of mind
2. It will shut people up ;)

I could check the # of regens w/ vcds. I don't know how but I will look into that. Also I could check the dipstick oil level.

I would like to bench b20 regens against D2 regens and see what surfaces.
The engine smoothness and quietness is great. I wouldn't have expected to hear that you got greater fuel economy since most report lowered economy. Do they add an additive that boosts fuel economy and maybe makes it more combustible or what is in their D2 that they are blending with? I would definitely like to see what surfaces in terms of B20 vs. D2 and regens. I would expect to see more regens and DPF backpressure issues.
 

tdi90hp

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well...we are all waiting for this UOA.....when can we expect it?
 

TomB

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JungleDeath

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well...we are all waiting for this UOA.....when can we expect it?
When I hit 7500. It will be a while.

The increased fe is the same and occasionally better than D2. Straight D2 I avg. 33mpg. Last few tanks I'm at 34 with B20. I should probably not make it sound like such a big increase but when the car is used by me I get a better tank than my wife, who drives like an old lady. The car is probably getting better fe as the motor breaks in...I'm guessing.

Interesting, the same commute with my 05 Passat got me 30mpg, at most, on B20.

Dip stick does not show an increase in volume....yet. But I will keep an eye on it as usual.

Just ordered the Blackstone Kit.
 
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