05 passat fuel economy questions

biged681985

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Mar 19, 2013
Location
arkansas
TDI
09 Jetta
i just purchased an 05 passat with 191k on it all stock. i have a back ground of working for several diesel shops working on diesel pickups but im a rookie at the vw diesels. im wanting to get the best economy i cant. so far i have two fill ups of 37 mpg. not bad compaired to what im used to driving. but im sure i can do several things to help fuel milage. i plan on cutting the cat and muffler out of it and putting a twister muffler on it to keep it from droning. i was also thinking of deleting the egr and cooler. i know it helps in the bigger motors but not sure if it does in these little tdi motors and if it requires a programmer to do it. any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

thundershorts

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Jul 15, 2010
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west chester pa
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2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
I don't think you will improve much on your mpg. Cat delete sure won't help you at all, nor the egr. you may be best off with new air and fuel filters, using the best oil, and doing a trans service, and possibly some sort of tire upgrade. Some say the bs delete will add a mpg or two. In any event, if you've followed this forum, its imperative to address the bs issue before your mpg is reduced to zero.
 

biged681985

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Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Location
arkansas
TDI
09 Jetta
ive not followed this forum for long. i signed up three weeks ago and was not approved because i put looking for my vehicle. so i re signed up this past week after i had bought my car.

that being said, i have no clue what your talking about with the bs issue.
 

crankme69

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May 16, 2011
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Ill.
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1996 Passat
Warning anything related to emissions is off limits here...don't ask.

Everything you mentioned I did to my older Passat but my vehicle and your 2005 are 2 totally different vehicles.
 

thundershorts

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2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
bs= balance shaft module. you will find a good start on reading the sticky by that title at top of the b5 page.
 

thundershorts

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2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
The bs chain on yours can take out the engine with no warning, and the delete parts are not expensive. quite a few owners put off fixing it and found it caused extensive damage when it failed.
 

outthere

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2004
TDI
2004 B5 Northern Green wagon
I've found the mileage doesnt vary materially no matter what. +/- 2 or 3 mpg doesnt make a difference when you calc the gas savings vs. the time and $$ the mods require. the good news is 65 or 80 mph doesnt matter much either. Just drive and enjoy. I've had the car since new, 9 years of driving.

You will chew up CV boots - start saving your pennies and/or Saturday afternoons for fixing those.
 

peiphil

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Nov 7, 2012
Location
Tignish PEI Canada
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2005 passat GLS TDI and big old Dodge Cummins TDI
What does a CV boot taste like? LOL
These cars dont get the milage like a jetta does.
But its worth it.
And get rid of the BSM chain and get the gear driven BSM for $1360 and some wrench pulling.
Not that bad of a job
 
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SilverGhost

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Mar 25, 2005
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Back in So Flo - St Lucie
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'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
Besides being against the rules, deleting the EGR can make MPG worse depending on how and when the car is driven. The cat and muffler are also oversized enough that removal gains you no power or MPG on stock to moderately modified engine. Only gains would be when the cat has become plugged.

37 is not too bad on this generation Passat. I second the recommendation to inspect for and replace the balance shaft/oil pump drive chain, if it is still there. The updated BSM is a gear drive unit. I don't know if the BSM delete drives the oil pump with chain or gear.

Raxles axles makes good replacement cv half shafts at a good price and life time guaranty, last I checked. I think they enlarged the boots so the don't rub the cv ball cages. That was the excuse I got as to why the Passat cv boots fail so regularly.

Jason
 

newlitemotorist

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Jan 16, 2013
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Indiana
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06' Jetta TDI dsg, 445,000 miles and counting!
Remove the auto tranny for a manual. I've gained 6mpg.
After all of my reading I think this is the only way to really gain anything on these cars. I have owned my passat wagon for almost a month and it consistantly gets 29 in the city and around 42 on the highway. City driving is what kills the mpgs on my car at least. If I watch the mpg gauge, I have noticed that the first 3 gears just suck the fuel. Once it shifts into fourth my mpgs jump substantially. I have read that this has to do with the torque converter. I guess once in 4th the tc locks up.

The only other thing I have seen that actually provides a return is to run light weight wheels/tires that are tall and skinny. Also, stay away from the aggressive tread tires and you might even check out the low friction Michelin's.
 

50harleyrider

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2005 B5.5 TDI/geared BSM, BV43A turbo,stage 2 TDTUNING. 2005 5sp manual passat tdi stage 2 tdtuning,BSM delete. 2015 Passat TDI 6sp manual.
I'm always at 30ish in town and 40ish higway. That's about the best you'll get without converting to manual (which is on my list). These aren't light cars so don't expect much in town. You're not ever gonna see 49mpg highway like a B4. Also you'll most likely never see as low as 35 highway like a 2005 MB diesel either. It's all about weight...
 
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Uberhare

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Sep 3, 2006
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
Too many.
I was consistently getting about 33mpg before the swap, now I get 37-40 depending on outside temperature.

It seems the car burns a lot of fuel to heat up. If the car is pre warmed, even half way to operating temp - I can get well over 40mpg. When the outside temp drops below -10 Celsius, even after being warmed up - mileage drops 3-4 mpg.
 

biged681985

Well-known member
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Mar 19, 2013
Location
arkansas
TDI
09 Jetta
What does a CV boot taste like? LOL
These cars dont get the milage like a jetta does.
But its worth it.
And get rid of the BSM chain and get the gear driven BSM for $1360 and some wrench pulling.
Not that bad of a job
Where are you finding it for $1360?
 

Lug_Nut

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Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
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idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
I have noticed that the first 3 gears just suck the fuel. Once it shifts into fourth my mpgs jump substantially. I have read that this has to do with the torque converter. I guess once in 4th the tc locks up.
1st and 2nd do not have lock-up. These are shifted hydraulically.
3rd and 4th can be either unlocked, or locked. These are shifted electronically.
3rd gear operation will start unlocked and, depending on driving situation, might be told to lock-up by the transmission controller, or it might shift into 4th while 3rd is still unlocked.
4th can also be locked or unlocked, depending on what condition 3rd ended in. If 3rd was unlocked, 4th will be unlocked when its operation starts and will be told to lock-up before going into 5th. If 3rd was locked up, 4th will start locked up and stay that way.
5th is only locked up, and will only be engaged from 4th locked up. 5th is also shifted electronically.
It's the change from unlocked to locked in either 3rd or 4th that makes the sensation of "6" ratios.
 

Eric Odle

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Feb 22, 2012
Location
Bellingham, WA
TDI
2005 Passat Wagon TDI (Chain Free!)
I have heard that you can squeeze a few mpg out of adjusting the torsion value more to the negative. Last visit to the shop I bumped mine just a bit negative, like half a degree, just to see what would happen. I noticed immediately with even that small of a change that the car seemed to favor highway speeds more than it used to.

My economy still didn't seem all that great, but I recently found out that my alignment was off quite a bit so that might have affected things. And last tank I towed several times while moving, twice with a trailer that weighed 1900# empty and quite a bit more when full of my stuff. I'm glad I had the B5 and not a smaller tdi on that one, with the Westfalia hitch it's rated for nearly 4500 pounds! I love having such a capable vehicle that still gets very good fuel economy.

So I'm still not decided if adjusting the torsion value will help my fuel economy, but I am hopeful.
 

newlitemotorist

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Indiana
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06' Jetta TDI dsg, 445,000 miles and counting!
So I'm still not decided if adjusting the torsion value will help my fuel economy, but I am hopeful.
I have read of people seeing good results from getting the torsion value set correctly for their engine. I think thats all it is though, like with any engine, they will run well if the timing is close but if you can get it perfect according to your goals they run their best.

I would be curious how the torsion value effects both power and fuel economy. Coming from the gasser side, I know that typically there is not such a thing as optimal fuel economy along with optimal power. These tdi's are new to me so I would be out of place stating much at all but with gassers there is optimal timing for power and on the other end of the spectrum there is optimal timing for fuel economy. While I might assume that this is the case for these engines as well I may be wrong, they seem to break a lot of the rules one comes to live by when dealing with gasoline engines.
 

vwztips

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2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
If you have stock cam you probably will not see much change in MPG by adjusting TV.
If you have a Franko6 cam, I have gone up to -4.0 TV and picked up 4 MPG. Still performed great.
 

WeLikeBlue

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Apr 21, 2009
Location
Elk Grove, CA
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2004.5 Passat
1st and 2nd do not have lock-up. These are shifted hydraulically.
3rd and 4th can be either unlocked, or locked. These are shifted electronically.
3rd gear operation will start unlocked and, depending on driving situation, might be told to lock-up by the transmission controller, or it might shift into 4th while 3rd is still unlocked.
4th can also be locked or unlocked, depending on what condition 3rd ended in. If 3rd was unlocked, 4th will be unlocked when its operation starts and will be told to lock-up before going into 5th. If 3rd was locked up, 4th will start locked up and stay that way.
5th is only locked up, and will only be engaged from 4th locked up. 5th is also shifted electronically.
It's the change from unlocked to locked in either 3rd or 4th that makes the sensation of "6" ratios.
Great description -- unfortunately, not consistent with my experience.
Much depends on driving style and whether your car has been tuned or re-coded (my car is bone stock.)
With a light to medium foot I get lockup before the 2-3 shift. Generally happens around 25-30 MPH. With a heavy foot the lockup can delay into the middle of third gear but I've never had a situation where the torque converter wasn't locked before the 3-4 shift. Nor do I ever recall having the converter unlocked in fourth. I watch the tach behavior because of my paranoia of the unlocked-torque-converter-killing-the-transmission syndrome:eek:
I have never tried the "sport mode" (I've heard holding the accelerator pedal to the floor when turning the key on before cranking will erase the transmission control learning but someone else can correct me on this.)
The mpg can be increased ever-so-slightly by using the Tiptronic to force an earlier 4-5 upshift just past 40 MPH (I have lots of level roads around here with 40-45 MPH speed limits.)
 
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sio

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Location
Ireland
TDI
130 PD passat
Just a question lads, what size engine is in the b5 passat in the us, over here in Europe 37 mpg is only comparable with a petrol version, diesels run up to the early 50's here on a long run, sorry for my ignorance just interested
 

77 K20

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Whitefish, MT
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2011 Touareg TDI LUX
I just recently bought a '04 Passat sedan with a 5 speed manual and got back from a 2500+ drive across the US. I don't have my gas log right in front of me, but the mileage I got driving back was around 50 mpg, 48 mpg, and then 43 mpg. This was calculated by hand.
In my other Passat with the automatic the best I was able to get out of it was 37 mpg.
 

sio

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Location
Ireland
TDI
130 PD passat
Wow that is some differance with fuel economy, I know over here now with the dsg box the 2 litre blue motion achieves 60 mpg that's 105 engine, suppose we get lumped with the less powerful units tho
 

oilhammer

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Dec 11, 2001
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outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Great description -- unfortunately, not consistent with my experience.
Much depends on driving style and whether your car has been tuned or re-coded (my car is bone stock.)
With a light to medium foot I get lockup before the 2-3 shift. Generally happens around 25-30 MPH. With a heavy foot the lockup can delay into the middle of third gear but I've never had a situation where the torque converter wasn't locked before the 3-4 shift. Nor do I ever recall having the converter unlocked in fourth. I watch the tach behavior because of my paranoia of the unlocked-torque-converter-killing-the-transmission syndrome:eek:
I have never tried the "sport mode" (I've heard holding the accelerator pedal to the floor when turning the key on before cranking will erase the transmission control learning but someone else can correct me on this.)
The mpg can be increased ever-so-slightly by using the Tiptronic to force an earlier 4-5 upshift just past 40 MPH (I have lots of level roads around here with 40-45 MPH speed limits.)

You need to be monitoring the TCM data via suitable scan tool to know if your torque converter is open, modulated, or locked. Watching the tachometer won't tell you much. Recoding the TCM requires a suitable scan tool as well.
 

peiphil

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Nov 7, 2012
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Tignish PEI Canada
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2005 passat GLS TDI and big old Dodge Cummins TDI
You need to be monitoring the TCM data via suitable scan tool to know if your torque converter is open, modulated, or locked. Watching the tachometer won't tell you much. Recoding the TCM requires a suitable scan tool as well.

Can you explain that in a little deeper detail?
Never heard of a torque converter being modulated.
Why wont the tach tell you much?
Thanks
 

oilhammer

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Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The TCM doesn't simply turn the TC clutch ON or OFF. It has a modulated position in the middle (lots of modern automatics do this). It duty cycles the solenoid to apply fluid pressure to the clutch. Unfortunately, the TCM data does not tell you how much, just that it is indeed in this variable lockup position. They do this to cushion the engagement and prevent 'chuggle'. You cannot detect this with any degree of accuracy simply by watching the tachometer.
 

tikal

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Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Great. Do you know who did the 5-speed swap on your Passat?


I just recently bought a '04 Passat sedan with a 5 speed manual and got back from a 2500+ drive across the US. I don't have my gas log right in front of me, but the mileage I got driving back was around 50 mpg, 48 mpg, and then 43 mpg. This was calculated by hand.
In my other Passat with the automatic the best I was able to get out of it was 37 mpg.
 

77 K20

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Nov 10, 2010
Location
Whitefish, MT
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2011 Touareg TDI LUX
Great. Do you know who did the 5-speed swap on your Passat?
It was vwztips who lives in South Carolina. He had started a thread some time ago about a 5 speed conversion I was following when my old car was totaled out.
 
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