Found my Passat Replacement

Trade Wind

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Location
Minnesota
TDI
RIP 2012 Passat SE 6 spd MT
Wanted to keep my Passat, but clutch developed problems. I'll be turning it in in August. Over the last three weeks I have test driven six-seven different models of midsize sedans. Sonata, Accord, Camry, Malibu, Altima, etc. Hands-down, Ford Fusion hybrid is my favorite. We are vacationing in Hawaii, just completed a 160 mile trip from our hotel to Hana and back. Twisting roads, hills, stop and go like you wouldn't believe. 47.5 miles per gallon on regular unleaded gas, babying it like I usually do. With the diesel premium in my area, plus Adblue, I'd have to get well over 50 miles per gallon in my Passat to be equivalent. My lifetime average is 42. And the ride is fantastic, very quiet, good handling etc. I realize the mileage will drop down to mid-30s at 80 mph, but still, not bad at all, very comparable cost per mile to Passat, if not better. At least as reliable, according to consumer reports.

I'm sold. Will start looking for a good 2015-2016 Fusion hybrid soon.
 

Jetta_Pilot

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Location
West Hill, Ont.
TDI
2015 Passat Highline TDI Candy White (SEL Premium) long gone 2002 Jetta TDI
A friend had a Toyota Camry Hybrid. Driving several thousand miles with two fairly large (heavy) people and all their luggage and much of it mountainous driving he was royally ticked of with the lousy mileage he got.
 

tdiatlast

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
Ford has an excellent hybrid system. Our CMax getting a solid 39mpg, c/h, plenty of torque, MUCH more linear than Prius. Not the driver's car of a VW, but good European handling.

Avalon Hybrid: still getting 38mpg, C/H, with a real trunk. We love it.

Problem with the Fusion hybrid: trunk space.

(The drive to Hana is amazing, isn't it?)
 

Trade Wind

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Location
Minnesota
TDI
RIP 2012 Passat SE 6 spd MT
We test drove an Avalon too. I did like it. I think the Fusion beats it in handling and cornering, and it seems just as quiet. I don't claim to be a car guy, what do I know?

Fusion trunk space is definitely limited. But with an Explorer as my wife's car, we have a way to make any trip or situation work. Funny thing, she picked out that car after driving 6-7 three-row SUVs last year, including Honda and Toyota. Unintentionally, we will be a Ford family (with a beater Sierra pickup to boot.)

Hana - should be on everyone's bucket list. Any attempt by me to describe it can't do it justice. Breathtaking.
 
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aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
We did the Hana drive 25 years ago. Wife had me pull over so she could throw up. I'll never forget that trip. Our two young daughters in the back seat went horizontal for most of the drive.
 

tdiatlast

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
We test drove an Avalon too. I did like it. I think the Fusion beats it in handling and cornering, and it seems just as quiet. I don't claim to be a car guy, what do I know?

Fusion trunk space is definitely limited. But with an Explorer as my wife's car, we have a way to make any trip or situation work. Funny thing, she picked out that car after driving 6-7 three-row SUVs last year, including Honda and Toyota. Unintentionally, we will be a Ford family (with a beater Sierra pickup to boot.)

Hana - should be on everyone's bucket list. Any attempt by me to describe it can't do it justice. Breathtaking.
No doubt the Fusion beats the Avalon in handling and cornering...it's smaller, and a better "drivers" car. I'd prefer it over the Avalon, but we need the trunk space. I'm not a fan of SUVs, will never own one.
 

Rico567

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Location
Central IL
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
No doubt the Fusion beats the Avalon in handling and cornering...it's smaller, and a better "drivers" car. I'd prefer it over the Avalon, but we need the trunk space. I'm not a fan of SUVs, will never own one.
All of this is true of us, too. At this point, absent a better option, we will almost certainly end up in a gas Passat -either the TSI or VR6- or something like the Volvo S90. The Jaguars are out because they're RWD.
 

rustycat

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2012
Location
seattle
TDI
2015 passat sel
No doubt the Fusion beats the Avalon in handling and cornering...it's smaller, and a better "drivers" car. I'd prefer it over the Avalon, but we need the trunk space. I'm not a fan of SUVs, will never own one.
We had an Avalon, which we traded in on the 2013 SEL we bought. The Avalon had no road feel and a lot of torque steering. Certainly in a different zip code than the Passat. Frankly, Avalon's current styling looks like it drove off a cliff onto a parking lot face first. The Japanese have such a wonderful cultural art sense, but when it comes to cars, seems they lose their styling way and lack the subtlety of their cultural artistic aesthetics.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
All of this is true of us, too. At this point, absent a better option, we will almost certainly end up in a gas Passat -either the TSI or VR6- or something like the Volvo S90. The Jaguars are out because they're RWD.

Yeah cause the price of Jags compared to the Passat doesn't play a factor in it?

RWD would be plus 100 in my book.
 

tdiatlast

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
We had an Avalon, which we traded in on the 2013 SEL we bought. The Avalon had no road feel and a lot of torque steering. Certainly in a different zip code than the Passat. Frankly, Avalon's current styling looks like it drove off a cliff onto a parking lot face first. The Japanese have such a wonderful cultural art sense, but when it comes to cars, seems they lose their styling way and lack the subtlety of their cultural artistic aesthetics.
Aesthetics always a matter of taste, gender, age differences.

What year Avalon did you trade? The 2013>>> suspension is vastly improved.

Different zip code, but still in the same county...HAHA!!!
 

Rico567

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Location
Central IL
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
Yeah cause the price of Jags compared to the Passat doesn't play a factor in it?
RWD would be plus 100 in my book.
Price is a very big deal, true. That being said, it's not clear whether we can be happy in a gas Passat. We'll test drive both the 1.8 TSI and the VR6, since I'm not sure the 1.8 can deliver the performance we're used to in the TDI. I'd hate to toss that fuel efficiency out the window, but oh, well.
If the Passat won't cut it for us, the next choice would probably be the Volvo s90 or the Jag— both in the same price bracket. I wouldn't like that either, but there just aren't a lot of "driver's cars" out there in that size to choose from.....

I'm afraid, based on discussions I've had, that the RWD v. FWD issue is incommensurable, so not much point discussing it. And I find AWD silly and a lot of needless complexity, at least for us.
 

New Mickey

The user formerly known as mickey
Joined
Jun 6, 2017
Location
Utah
TDI
2015 Passat
I have high hopes for the Mazda CX5 diesel. They're taking an interesting approach. They are making the engine as un-dieselly as they can. VERY low compression ratio. (Comparable to a high performance gasser.) Diesels run fine with low compression IF you can get them started. Mazda is handling that with extremely advanced injection and fast glow plugs.

Since the engine takes much less of a beating, due to the low compression, they are able to make everything about it lighter. So it's basically a gas engine that runs on diesel.

Sounds frighteningly like GM's approach back in the '70s except they didn't bother with technology. They just put high compression pistons in a small block V8 and added diesel injectors. Disaster. But if you think about it you don't need to build a diesel engine like a tank if it's not being violently smacked around by high compression, right?

I hope it works. If somebody offers a reasonably priced, midsize AWD crossover with a diesel I'm buying it. Somebody who knows how to build quality vehicles, anyway.

-mickey
 

New Mickey

The user formerly known as mickey
Joined
Jun 6, 2017
Location
Utah
TDI
2015 Passat
Price is a very big deal, true. That being said, it's not clear whether we can be happy in a gas Passat. We'll test drive both the 1.8 TSI and the VR6, since I'm not sure the 1.8 can deliver the performance we're used to in the TDI. I'd hate to toss that fuel efficiency out the window, but oh, well.
If the Passat won't cut it for us, the next choice would probably be the Volvo s90 or the Jag— both in the same price bracket. I wouldn't like that either, but there just aren't a lot of "driver's cars" out there in that size to choose from.....
I'm afraid, based on discussions I've had, that the RWD v. FWD issue is incommensurable, so not much point discussing it. And I find AWD silly and a lot of needless complexity, at least for us.
I drove a 2017 TSi for a week while they retrofitted my TDI. It's a great engine. Honestly more fun to drive than the TDI. I was having a good time. But the fuel economy isn't great if you play with the engine. Driven carefully it can be pretty impressive.

What I found odd was that I couldn't get anywhere near the same mileage out of it that my daughter gets with her 2017 TSi. And I was actually trying. I didn't have it long enough to explore the whys and wherefores.

-mickey
 

andydg

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2012
Location
California
TDI
Used to have SW & Passat
Our Passat is being replaced by a Subaru Legacy. Drove one the other day and we were surprised by how quiet the cabin is at speed, and how well the cvt transmission works. Will miss the low end torque of the diesel and mileage.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
As much as people love to hate CVTs I was very very happy with how it drove when we test drove an Outback in January. Great tip in, it was ready to jump off the line.

Still ended up with the alltrack thou.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
As much as people love to hate CVTs I was very very happy with how it drove when we test drove an Outback in January. Great tip in, it was ready to jump off the line.

Still ended up with the alltrack thou.
Not a fan of the CVT in my mom's Legacy sedan. It's too jumpy off the line, making for some jerky starts, especially in reverse. Tight parking lot maneuvers can be tricky if you're not expecting it. I also don't like the fake gear steps that it does in drive, although I do like that it offers a 6-ratio manual mode, which is nice in the mountains.
 

pparks1

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Location
Westland, Michigan
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE
My Honda CVT off the line isn't jumpy at all. I personally like the CVT, but if you stomp on it and expect rip roaring performance, you are going to be disappointed. Fortunately, I rarely, if ever, drive like that.
 

tdiatlast

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
I have always detested the CVT, always reminded me of a single-speed propeller driven motorboat: hear it rev, strain, finally get up on plane...

I've become a fan of both the Avalon and FordCmax CVTs. Plenty of controlled power off the line, and both are plenty responsive to throttle input. Of course, seamless all the while...

However, keep in mind that at age 63, my automobile demands are very different than 20 years ago!! HAHA! (even threatening to cancel my AutoWeek subscription)
 

Rico567

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Location
Central IL
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
<snip>
However, keep in mind that at age 63, my automobile demands are very different than 20 years ago!! HAHA! (even threatening to cancel my AutoWeek subscription)
At ten years your senior, I can endorse this wholeheartedly. I sometimes think our years should be published along with name, ride, etc., simply because as one ages, these things inevitably change.
In one's twenties, it is possible to feel viscerally attached to a car (at least I think I remember it that way). At age 73, for the benefit of our younger forum members, it is emphatically NOT. There were several favorite stretches of road where I repeatedly risked life and limb a half-century ago; now, it seems as though it must have been an entirely different person who did those things I remember.
Also, at some age Mr. Arthritis comes to call, and there's just not as much of the "get out and get under" impulse as there was back in the day. These days, our cars get washed and detailed at a local establishment. I still do some light maintenance and repairs, but perhaps more out of sheer habit than anything. This past week, I performed the 60K service on our Passat, and after I'd done engine O&F, engine air, fuel, & compartment filters, I thought I'd had enough...and I still have the DEF tank to fill! In my younger days, I can recall overhauling the transmission on our riding mower in an unheated garage in the Winter, which in retrospect seems like severe OCD behavior, at the very least.

And, to write a coda to all this, I can no longer recall when I let my Car & Driver subscription lapse....but I do remember a time when my pulse ran quicker after reading David E. Davis' Turn Your Hymnals to 2002, a wonderful essay on what the phrase "driver's car" means.

Sic transit gloria mundi. Gloria can be a *****.
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
Understanding Rico567's post above. I'm his age and STILL try to do the things I did way back when. Last winter, I replaced the suspension in my 2003 Jetta and felt it for weeks. My "A" has shown up for the dance, but I grin and bare it.

As part of my resurrecting my 1971 Super Beetle, I tore the meniscus in my right knee (not worth of telling how it happened). I had surgery last week and I don't think I will be kneeling on that knee for a few months. Now the Beetle will rest up for a while before I pull and rebuild the engine ......maybe.

On Car & Driver...my subscription ended when the good writers left over a decade ago. I still buy a copy when at the airport for plane reading. (Too many $150,000 car reviews though).
 

Trade Wind

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Location
Minnesota
TDI
RIP 2012 Passat SE 6 spd MT
OK I started this thread mentioning that based on a lot of test drives, the Ford Fusion was my favorite mid-sized sedan to replace the Passat. I turned in the Passat yesterday and had a little time to kill, so I test drove a 2016 Mazda6 Touring automatic. Maybe it is the ADD acting up, but I seriously like the way that car drives.

I had not considered it because of reports of them being noisy and rough riding. I'd call the ride firm, in a good way - but not rough, and I made sure to hit some awful roads to make sure I knew for sure. Hard for me, an non-car guy, to explain, but firm does not equal rough. As for noise, totally acceptable (I guess the 2016's are "25% quieter" than the prior model). Inside, much cooler/sportier than the Fusion and the Passat. And fully loaded, a top of the line 2016 Grand Touring is a fair amount less than a similarly equipped 2016 Fusion Hybrid.

For me, compared to the Fusion Hybrid, this car is only a few hundred dollars more a year for gas, if that. 32 mpg overall / 40mpg highway (Fusion is 41 mpg highway). Highway is most of my driving. Plus it has a 2.5 liter engine/no turbo, vs a complicated and potentially expensive Hybrid system. While the 2.5 is not a powerhouse, plenty good for my mostly mild-mannered driving.

Have to take the wife for a test drive, but I think I am now sold on the Mazda :). Gaaaa, sometimes too many choices make it hard to decide. But something about this car just feels right. And prettier exterior than Fusion IMO.

Any thoughts on the Mazda 6?
 

tdiatlast

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
I'd recommend re-visiting the Avalon Hybrid Limited...used, of course. Every one of the cars you've listed has a compromise or two, but buying a 2-year-old Avalon means someone else has taken the depreciation hit, and you're getting more features (if they mean much to you!) than any of the others.
Compared to the driver-friendly Mazda, you might very well hate it, but you'd be getting a $45k car for the same price as the $32k +- for the Mazda, right?
Embarking on a 4k mile road trip tomorrow, DFW-DC, with 6 weeks in the Shenandoah region.
 

tncrom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 30, 2013
Location
Iowa, East Central
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Manual (Took Buyback), 2015 TDI Passat SE Manual
So my replacement for my 2013 TDI manual Passat is a......2015 TDI Manual Passat. I'm letting VW buy my '13 and essentially rolling that money over to the 2015 which has a few more features, and 40K less miles. I just love the ride and drive feel of the TDI manual.
I'm afraid I'm hooked. So, one more day before I make the purchase.....

What are your thoughts? Mistake? ....or forehead slap "wish I'd done that too" ?

Thanks for your input. It's not too late to help me not screw up. :)

Chris
 

Trade Wind

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Location
Minnesota
TDI
RIP 2012 Passat SE 6 spd MT
I don't think it is a mistake. That was on my short list too. I've only been a VW and a diesel owner for less than 2 years, and I tend to keep my cars a LONG time (sometimes a decade - no kidding). Once my clutch failed, I felt like I had to use it as an opportunity to try something else. I really enjoyed mine, and am sure I will miss it.
 

tncrom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 30, 2013
Location
Iowa, East Central
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Manual (Took Buyback), 2015 TDI Passat SE Manual
Thanks for you thoughts Trade Wind. I two am a fairly new TDI owner, and I too keep my cars forever....just sold a '98 Sienna that I purchased off the showroom floor - 19 years/330K miles! It "raised" two kids from car seats to becoming theirs at the end of it's life with us -- it could still take a lickin' at the end. Sold it for $425 to a fellow that will use it to chase storms. What a history that car has and will have. The bar was set quite high by Toyota.

Also,...I drove the Mazda 6....loved it. Just couldn't get a manual with any nice optional features. So I kicked it to the curb because of that. Nice car if you want an automatic though.
 
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Rico567

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Location
Central IL
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
<snip>

Have to take the wife for a test drive, but I think I am now sold on the Mazda :). Gaaaa, sometimes too many choices make it hard to decide. But something about this car just feels right. And prettier exterior than Fusion IMO.

Any thoughts on the Mazda 6?
The Mazda 6 keeps recurring as some people's choice to replace a Passat (and I haven't driven the Mazda yet), and it sounds good in many ways. But how do you find the overall room. One of the things that sold us on the Passat four years ago when we bought it is the spacious front seat, the real back seat with actual adult legroom, and the cavernous trunk. How would you rate the Mazda 6 in these areas?
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Only time will tell if buying a 2015 is a mistake or not. It all depends on vehicle reliability and how competently Volkswagen handles any necessary warranty repairs. Based on their track record over the past couple of decades, I don't have high expectations.
 

truman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 18, 2000
Location
columbia,MO,usa
TDI
'05 Passat Variant, Still miss the 03JW
Too bad no 6 wagon for us
I wont drive anything but a wagon
Utiliy/versatiliy means a lot to me
Not interested in SUV however
 
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