Mazda SkyActiv Diesel Engine

turbobrick240 · Jul 27, 2019

Mythdoc said:
It’s not $50k it’s $41k equipped with every option on Mazda’s list. You can’t find a way to pay more even if you try. So, you overestimate by a lot.

While I also predict lack of success for the vehicle, due to a lack of enthusiasm for it among Mazda’s normal clientele and their dealer network, it is truly aimed at Audi Q5 drivers like myself or perhaps more accurately, the Tiguan level buyer. Like many of the current crop of Asian cars (Hyundai and Kia notably), the interior is an almost minute knock off of Audi’s interiors from the current and previous generations.

If my Q5 was not going great and still warranted through 2024 I’d be very interested to drive it with a serious thought of purchasing. I’d also drive their turbogasser. But numbers on the Monroney sticker are very misleading. In particular, the smaller turbocharged gasoline engines seem to have torque curves that are pointy, not smooth, unlike diesel powered engines.

I guess I was reading Canadian articles- the diesel cx-5 starts at $46k before freight and delivery in Canada.

You'll find many enthusiasts who feel it's the small diesels that have a peaky torque curve. The torque curves I've seen from the modern DIT gassers look very diesel-like, except that the torque hangs around longer, giving them better power figures.

As far as Monroney figures go, it's pretty easy to beat those numbers in both gassers and diesels in my experience. I'm glad mazda finally is bringing the diesels, I just wish they had better fuel efficiency.

tikal · Jul 27, 2019

www.spritmonitor.de shows an average of 30.4 MPG (7.74 l/100 km) for the Mazda CX-5 with a diesel engine from 2007 to 2019 and automatic transmission (any diesel engine).

35 Yr Dsl Veteran · Jul 28, 2019

bhtooefr said:
And running too low RPM can also impact fuel economy negatively.

That is absolutely FALSE! Try running your at 8-speed TDI at a steady 40 MPH with CC on, on flat land in 6th, 7th & 8th gear. You'll see the MPG meter will clearly show the best gear to be in for highest MPG is 8th.

The RPMs are quite low low in 8th, 1,400 RPM, but it takes very little torque to go down the road at that speed, so why call for more (by being in a lower gear), when it is not needed, and just wastes fuel?

The bottom line is outputting more power = more fuel used = lower MPG.

bhtooefr · Jul 28, 2019

No, it's not false, it's just that for that load and your gearing choices, you're right.

Here's a BSFC graph with power contours that I believe is from the CBEA (so not your engine, but a 2.0 TDI of similar technological development):

The colored lines are horsepower, the BMEP in bar can be directly correlated with torque output, and the numbers inside the graph are I believe grams of fuel per kWh produced (lower is always better).

If you needed 40 hp, for instance, you're better off selecting a gear that gets you ~1700 RPM than one that gets you 1250 or 1400 RPM, because the engine is more efficient at burning fuel at that load at that speed.

If you needed 80 hp, going for 2250 RPM is more efficient than going for 1750 RPM.

Johhny04 · Jul 29, 2019

Interesting article from Canada. Mazda headoffice in Canada is in Richmond Hill, ON.

https://www.yorkregion.com/community-story/9524431-first-drive-2019-mazda-cx-5-signature-diesel-cuv/

Mythdoc · Jul 29, 2019

Johhny04 said:
Interesting article from Canada. Mazda headoffice in Canada is in Richmond Hill, ON.

https://www.yorkregion.com/community-story/9524431-first-drive-2019-mazda-cx-5-signature-diesel-cuv/

Evidence point: the reviewer obtained a fuel efficiency result far better than the rating in the test drive. 7L/100 or 33.6 mpg. And he says was not interstate driving, was using “secondary roads.”

tikal · Jul 29, 2019

turbobrick240 said:
I imagine the diesel cx-5 will fizzle out pretty quickly here. Very few Americans will want to spend $50k for a diesel crossover when it's down on both power and torque and only gets a couple mpg better than than it's skyactiv G counterpart. But I'd still love to test drive one.

I agree with the word 'fizzle out' regarding the upcoming Mazda CX-5 diesel.

If the fuel efficient GM Equinox/Terrain diesel did not survive more than a year in the US at current fuel prices, what makes us think this Mazda 'less efficient' SUV/CUV will make it longer than several months at most (not years for sure)?

Mythdoc · Jul 29, 2019

tikal said:
I agree with the word 'fizzle out' regarding the upcoming Mazda CX-5 diesel.

If the fuel efficient GM Equinox/Terrain diesel did not survive more than a year in the US at current fuel prices, what makes us think this Mazda 'less efficient' SUV/CUV will make it longer than several months at most (not years for sure)?

You may well be right that it will fizzle, but you won’t be right that it will have anything in particular to do with GM’s experience trying to sell that crapmobile.

Mazda has long been known as the Asian brand for car driving enthusiasts. They are now positioning themselves as an mid-market brand between the starter cars and the luxury cars. In other words, exactly what VW of America tried to do from 1995-2015 and was hammered for it in the automotive press. If they continue to lose market share, it will be because that is a very difficult needle to thread.

I think they make the additional mistake of not shipping this engine in all trim levels, including base. But, as I mentioned a few posts ago, they are trying to position the car as a wannabe diesel Q5.

turbobrick240 · Jul 29, 2019

They cx-5 may wannabe a Q5, but it is more of a Tiguan, or Ford Escape. I like the exterior and interior styling. The 250hp / 310 ft-lb turbo gasser might make for a bit of zoom zoom fun. As much as you can expect from a crossover with their inherently high center of gravity.

35 Yr Dsl Veteran · Jul 29, 2019

Mythdoc said:
Evidence point: the reviewer obtained a fuel efficiency result far better than the rating in the test drive. 7L/100 or 33.6 mpg. And he says was not interstate driving, was using “secondary roads.”

Actually, secondary roads can yield BETTER MPG, because you are not running at "highway speeds". As most know, MPG decreases proportionally to the SQUARE of the speed. In other words, increase your speed 10%, and your MPG drops 21%.

IndigoBlueWagon · Jul 29, 2019

I think that reviewer just crawled out from under a rock, where he's been since the 80s. "Instant startup?" Common rail diesels have started instantly for over 15 years. "No clatter?" My BMW 335d is quieter than my neighbor's gasser 328i.

Of course the clicks to empty went up. It starts with an estimated range based on the previous tank. If you loaf along at 80 km/h you're probably going to improve on that estimate. If the reviewer had ever driven any car with a miles to empty reading he'd have known that.

Mythdoc · Jul 29, 2019

35 Yr Dsl Veteran said:
Actually, secondary roads can yield BETTER MPG, because you are not running at "highway speeds". As most know, MPG decreases proportionally to the SQUARE of the speed. In other words, increase your speed 10%, and your MPG drops 21%.

You’re right, but it’s unclear how many towns or cities and how many stops and starts the reviewer encountered.

Mythdoc · Jul 29, 2019

IndigoBlueWagon said:
I think that reviewer just crawled out from under a rock, where he's been since the 80s. "Instant startup?" Common rail diesels have started instantly for over 15 years. "No clatter?" My BMW 335d is quieter than my neighbor's gasser 328i.

Of course the clicks to empty went up. It starts with an estimated range based on the previous tank. If you loaf along at 80 km/h you're probably going to improve on that estimate. If the reviewer had ever driven any car with a miles to empty reading he'd have known that.

LOL very true!

turbobrick240 · Jul 29, 2019

35 Yr Dsl Veteran said:
Actually, secondary roads can yield BETTER MPG, because you are not running at "highway speeds". As most know, MPG decreases proportionally to the SQUARE of the speed. In other words, increase your speed 10%, and your MPG drops 21%.

Yeah, I get my best mileage on secondary roads where the speed limit is 55 mph and lower. But I believe it is drag that increases proportionally to the square of speed, not mpg decreasing proportionally to it. Otherwise I'd have got 25 mpg @ 80 mph in my golf, not 35-40.

IndigoBlueWagon · Jul 29, 2019

Some of this tank was used drifting across Ontario from the NY border to Sault Ste Marie on my way to the 2016 Fest. Cool evening, running at 80-90 km/h.

tikal · Jul 29, 2019

Mythdoc said:
You may well be right that it will fizzle, but you won’t be right that it will have anything in particular to do with GM’s experience trying to sell that crapmobile.

Mazda has long been known as the Asian brand for car driving enthusiasts. They are now positioning themselves as an mid-market brand between the starter cars and the luxury cars. In other words, exactly what VW of America tried to do from 1995-2015 and was hammered for it in the automotive press. If they continue to lose market share, it will be because that is a very difficult needle to thread.

I think they make the additional mistake of not shipping this engine in all trim levels, including base. But, as I mentioned a few posts ago, they are trying to position the car as a wannabe diesel Q5.

What a pity they put the diesel engine on a CX-5 and not something like a CX-7 midsize vehicle where the diesel is more optimized.

Mazda CX-5: A 'boxy' vehicle with a very modest cargo of around 30 cubic feet :-(

kjclow · Jul 31, 2019

IndigoBlueWagon said:
It's obvious that right now fuel prices are well below any point of pain for most consumers. Buying habits (big trucks and SUVs) would indicate that fuel economy isn't very high on the list of car buying criteria these days. And I doubt that will change anytime soon. If oil prices rise there are just that many more fracking operations that become cost-effective and producers just turn on the spigot. Doesn't bode well for diesels.

Only comfort I take in stable fuel prices is it doesn't bode well for electric cars, either.

I think it's more of a complacency issue. Fuel prices climbed up and then settled back down to around the $2.50 mark. They been there long enough that most consumers have adjusted their budget and moved on.

IndigoBlueWagon · Jul 31, 2019

That's what I'm saying. No one cares.

Mythdoc · Aug 14, 2019

Car and Driver report on real-world fuel efficiency:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28692788/2019-mazda-cx-5-diesel-beat-epa-mpg/

Bottom line: 34 Highway sounds good (at 75 mph, will be higher at 70), but don’t buy a diesel if you will be driving around town much of the time.

IndigoBlueWagon · Aug 14, 2019

I wouldn't pay a lot of attention to their numbers. First, the vehicle is far from broken in. Second, C&D never achieves EPA combined numbers on any test car. During a recent SUV comparison test they got 13 MPG on a 300 mile trip in a gasser BMW X5, EPA combined is 22. The other trucks in the test also delivered about half their EPA combined FE in their hands.

I bet the CX-5 will deliver over 35 MPG highway when broken in and driven by an skilled driver, without hypermiling. New diesels with emissions hardware do seem to take a bigger hit in city and traffic compared to older diesels.

tikal · Aug 15, 2019

You can also check www.spritmonitor.de, the equivalent of fuelly.com in Europe. The average fuel economy for the Mazda CX-5 diesel with an automatic in recent years shows around 30 MPG.

German_1er_diesel · Aug 16, 2019

tikal said:
You can also check www.spritmonitor.de, the equivalent of fuelly.com in Europe. The average fuel economy for the Mazda CX-5 diesel with an automatic in recent years shows around 30 MPG.

And comparing with manual transmission versions on Spritmonitor makes you wonder how bad the Mazda automatic is...

Tin Man · Aug 16, 2019

German_1er_diesel said:
And comparing with manual transmission versions on Spritmonitor makes you wonder how bad the Mazda automatic is...

I'm wondering if automatics designed for a particular continent are not better because of the choice of shift points that would favor that continent's fuel economy test. The result would be better economy than manual versions just on the basis of shift points.

This was apparent in how the EPA treated the Lexus CT200h as having worse fuel economy than a basically equivalent but otherwise heavier Prius. In reality, the CT200h had at least as good a fuel economy as the Prius. This is from personal experience.

The CT200h BTW was designed originally for the European market.

German_1er_diesel · Aug 16, 2019

...the fuel economy tests are sometimes misleading, that's why real-world logs like fuelly or Spritmonitor are so useful.

And the Ct200 barely found any buyers in Europe

Mythdoc · Jan 17, 2020

Just saw a news report that this vehicle has begun to be deeply discounted. Did a cars.com search and saw prices for new models in the $33K range and up.

soot1 · Jan 18, 2020

Mythdoc said:
Just saw a news report that this vehicle has begun to be deeply discounted. Did a cars.com search and saw prices for new models in the $33K range and up.

They only produced 1,000 units and can't move even such small number of them in six months? That would tell even a freshman in marketing that something is seriously wrong with their way of selling the vehicle, or the vehicle itself. Nissan, too, has been deeply discounting their Cummins-powered Titan XDs for quite some time now (actually, almost from the very beginning of production) as there were nowhere near as many takers as they expected after the initial spike. Production of the Titan XD Cummins quietly ended three weeks ago, and even with a $10k discount, nobody noticed. The diesel-powered CX-5 follows the same path, although for different reasons.

turbobrick240 · Jan 18, 2020

If they had brought them over 6 or 7 years ago, I think they would have sold pretty well. They missed the boat. Of course VW (et al) dropping a deuce in the pool didn't help.

IndigoBlueWagon · Jan 18, 2020

If you could pick one up in the low 30s it's a pretty nice vehicle for that price. However, if Mazda gives up after only producing a few for the US I'd be concerned about parts availability and service tech familiarity with the vehicle.

turbobrick240 · Jan 21, 2020

Looks like deja vu with the Mazda Skyactiv X. It was supposed to arrive by the end of last year, but now Mazda is saying they don't think Americans will like it as is. So they are considering designing a larger displacement version for this market. I predict that by the time they actually bring that powertrain over nobody will care.

German_1er_diesel · Jan 22, 2020

Tin Man said:
I'm wondering if automatics designed for a particular continent are not better because of the choice of shift points that would favor that continent's fuel economy test. The result would be better economy than manual versions just on the basis of shift points.

The data on spritmonitor.de is actual owner's fuel economy logs, they have nothing to do with official fuel economy tests. Mazda's automatic does fine in the official tests, but horrible in actual real-world driving. The manual Skyactiv-D returns excellent fuel economy both in testing and in reality.

Mazda SkyActiv Diesel Engine

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