Chevy Cruze Diesel a direct competitor to the Jetta TDI

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kjclow

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yep, I was looking at the fractions coming out, not the temp. You can actually shift the balance quite far these days, depending on the crude stock and age of the refinery. I've heard of percentages in the 10 to 15% range.
 

wxman

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Other way. Diesel's b.p. is higher, so it takes more temperature. Gasoline comes off the fractional distillation stack higher up. Boiling point of a compound fraction is inverse to height on the stack. Cracking, to my knowledge, can only shift the balance a few % points.
@Nick - I claim no expertise in petroleum refining, but it is my understanding from previous discussions here at tdiclub and other forums that straight distillation yields much greater volumes of middle distillate than "straight-run" gasoline (e.g., http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2174), and that some middle distillate is actually "cracked" to gasoline. The shortfall in middle distillate is apparently made up by cracking the heavier residuals to something called "light cycle oil" (LCO). LCO supposedly has similar properties to "straight-run" middle distillate, but has a much lower cetane number (~20; straight-run middle distillate 50-55). The relatively large quantities of LCO combined with the straight-run middle distillate is the reason for the low quality of U.S. diesel fuel, or so I understand it.
 

darrelld

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Chevrolet Primed for Rising Demand for Diesel Cars

http://media.gm.com/media/ba/en/che...nt/Pages/news/us/en/2012/Apr/0426_dieselmyths

DETROIT – The planned U.S. introduction of a 2.0L clean turbo diesel version of the Chevrolet Cruze next year is expected to benefit from growing interest in diesel cars, sales of which could double by mid-decade, according to market research firm Baum and Associates.
Diesel car sales, which account for 3 percent of U.S. sales today, are trending up, having jumped 35 percent in the first quarter of 2012 compared to the same period in 2011. Diesel car sales grew more than 27 percent last year, according to the Diesel Technology Forum. Baum and Associates predicts diesel to account for 6 percent of car sales by 2015
General Motors sold more than half a million diesel-powered cars across Europe, Asia, Africa and South America last year, including 33,000 Cruzes.
The North American introduction of a diesel engine on Cruze – one of the top-selling gasoline-powered cars in the U.S. in 2011 and General Motors’ best-selling model globally – is expected to establish Chevrolet as the only domestic automaker offering an American- manufactured diesel-powered compact car with a European-American developed engine.
“Even with high fuel prices, we’re seeing more consumers willing to invest in more advanced technology, fuel-efficient vehicles,” said Allen Schaeffer, executive director of the Diesel Technology Forum, a non-profit educational organization. “We’re really excited about what the Chevy Cruze brings to this segment. It’s already a successful car in its fuel efficiency and market acceptance. With GM’s advanced clean-burning diesel technology under the hood, Cruze stands to be a game changer.”
 

MarcusW

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GM Prepares U.S. Market for its Diesels, Chevy Cruze to Debut First

Besides the news, this is an interesting history of diesels in the U.S. - lots I didn't know.



GM Prepares U.S. Market for its Diesels, Chevy Cruze to Debut First



Come this fall, General Motors will become the first U.S. automaker to offer a clean diesel for sale here and the first U.S. automaker to offer any diesel passenger car in over two decades.
The 2013 …
Article continues here

 

Rickstah

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I hope this goes over, too. I can't speak for GM's reasons for advertising a certain way, but it is positively annoying to see an article that was ostensibly about new, hopeful tech in diesel offerings turn into a re-hashing of something that happened so long ago, thinly disguised as a full-disclosure section. Those of us who remember...heck even owned those vehicles know what went on then, and should know that the two events are practically unrelated anymore. It's obvious most journalists cannot resist stirring the pot in the hopes something will fall out in their favor, lol. Why not try to find something like longevity metrics that may be salient to what we want to know today?

As counterpoint to the all-too-true travails of those early diesels, my favorite vehicle, even counting Christine (sorry babe) was an 84 GMC 3/4 ton Suburban 2wd. The diesel engine in it, after I opened up the exhaust and upgraded the electrical situation (read larger batteries), performed flawlessly for 8 years...would pull anything under 8k lbs, got 22 mpg at 60 mph highway unladen, and, when idling or going for a spin around the hood, put my then 1 year old son to sleep in his child seat almost instantly if he was cranky :). Just sayin.

Anyone from Aus or elsewhere driving one of these yet?
 

MarcusW

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I hope this goes over, too. I can't speak for GM's reasons for advertising a certain way, but it is positively annoying to see an article that was ostensibly about new, hopeful tech in diesel offerings turn into a re-hashing of something that happened so long ago, thinly disguised as a full-disclosure section. Those of us who remember...heck even owned those vehicles know what went on then, and should know that the two events are practically unrelated anymore. It's obvious most journalists cannot resist stirring the pot in the hopes something will fall out in their favor, lol. Why not try to find something like longevity metrics that may be salient to what we want to know today?
The way I read it was that it was pointing out how stupid GM was for bringing up the problems. I happen to agree - why bring this stuff up? That graphic is really over the top.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the GM way - at least from an outside observer looking in. They've made an equal mess here in Germany with Opel.
 

Rickstah

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You could be right, although maybe they thought they should just get it out there, knowing it would be the same old crap, people dragging all the old stuff up, lol. Reps like that never die :), and people just spread them on down the line..."diesel memes never die, they just disappear into the smoke" :)

There are always a certain number who must figure out a way to point out the deficiiencies in any attempt to move forward, I guess. I'm with you, I might have prepared a response in case it came up, just in case....but no doubt they would have been screwed...someone saying they were not owning up to their mistakes of the past and all that. Damned no matter what...I just hope the engine performs faithfully.

I wish someone from down under who had one could provide some answers...may go find a diesel Cruze forum if there is one.
 

MrMopar

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WOW, for once the drive-by media *didn't* drag out the completely false rumor that "the Oldsmobile LF9 engine was a converted gasser." It's amazing to read a GM diesel news article that is factually accurate.
 

rbscouter7

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well for the rest of you I drove an Isuzu Imark sedan in 1982 that had 51 hp no turbo and got 50 plus mpg. had a buddy that drove an 18 wheeler, came home every other weeked and let me take fuel off his truck almost made my car payment while I was in college. now Im on my 6th diesel 2 gms and 2 fords and the best ive owned is the Isuzu. the Isuzu went 314k when it was sold and I did all the maintance on it no guru needed.
 

Rickstah

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Tell us more about the GMs, lol, we don't want to get off-target :).

You had 51 hp?? My 85 Jetta diesel...loved that thing...but I really had to plan my merges at times , lol. I think we had 45 on tap.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
'85 Jetta non-turbo diesel had 52hp. :p Turbos got a whole 68hp. The older 1.5L VAG diesel made 48hp.
 

Powder Hound

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The way I read it was that it was pointing out how stupid GM was for bringing up the problems. I happen to agree - why bring this stuff up? That graphic is really over the top. ...
It will always seem that way to someone trying to find a way to hate GM. The only one bringing up bad history was the writer, not the corporation. Seems the writers will write anything, badly if they can, edit to the point of lying if they can, to try and generate something.

If GM didn't release some type of graphic or story putting down old history, then the likes of you would be asking why they aren't fighting back. No matter what GM does, people like you will criticize.

I hope you never will have to face the problem of fighting for your economic life given too much to do, not enough time and resources to do the right job, and are never let down by suppliers that fail you.

Then you will have the perfect, superb history of companies like VW that NEVER screw the pooch:
NEVER have PD injectors that destroy the cam
NEVER run a cam with narrowed lobes and abnormal wear patterns
NEVER sell cars with HPFPs that die early
NEVER have any other design flaws that require forums like this so that people can survive buying the cars...

Oops, guess companies elsewhere have problems, too. :rolleyes:
 

MrMopar

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You forget never claimed bankruptcy, even after taxpayers "bailed them out". :p
Yes, a bankruptcy the likes of which the United States hadn't seen in over 100 years. A bankruptcy with the Executive Branch firmly in control, ruling by executive fiat to screw bondholders and hand the company over to the UAW.
 
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MarcusW

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You could be right, although maybe they thought they should just get it out there, knowing it would be the same old crap, people dragging all the old stuff up, lol. Reps like that never die :), and people just spread them on down the line..."diesel memes never die, they just disappear into the smoke" :)
I hope so :) I read the Diesel Driver magazine regularly and this is the only article I know of that ever brought these problems up in this manner.
 

Dunno513

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Yes, a bankruptcy the likes of which the United States hadn't seen in over 100 years. A bankruptcy with the Executive Branch firmly in control, ruling by executive fiat to screw bondholders and hand the company over to the UAW.
And the other choice was what exactly?

I personally hope the GM brand diesels really put a damper on VW's over-hyped "we want to be the biggest auto brand" as those who have been mistreated now have other options.

And for those simpletons who think GM should just have folded...
 
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tdidieselbobny

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I will be curious to see what the price will be of the diesel. If they can offer it for under $20k,it will do well. I already see many,many Cruzes on the road here in WNY-I stopped and peeked at a Cruze Eco-under $20k,manual,and the same mileage listed on the window as a TDI (30/42)....
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
I will be curious to see what the price will be of the diesel. If they can offer it for under $20k,it will do well. I already see many,many Cruzes on the road here in WNY-I stopped and peeked at a Cruze Eco-under $20k,manual,and the same mileage listed on the window as a TDI (30/42)....

That is the key. I think they will end up doing what Volkswagen has done: tie the diesel engine to the highest trim level only, and it will end up in the $25k range, and become a slow seller. How many $25k Golf TDIs do you think Volkswagen would sell here if they bothered to sell a 1.4L TFSI gasser here for $20k that gets the same fuel economy? The small diesel cars in Europe are actually LOSING sales recently to these newer gassers. Diesels are still strong in B and C segment cars (like the ones we hardly can get anyways) and of course dominant in trucks and commercial vehicles (while we get purpose-built gasser failtrains like the Transit Connect with leftover Focus drivelines in them, complete with manditory slushbox :rolleyes: ).

I think the Cruze Diesel will be a hard sell for Chevy dealers here. Sure, you'll get some diesel die-hards to buy them, but (like Volkswagen TDI buyers) those seem to be a small crowd here. :(
 

BadMonKey

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You forget never claimed bankruptcy, even after taxpayers "bailed them out". :p
Not completely true, had it not been for the Britt's VW would have died after the war. Technically the US and the Britt's paid to rebuild the factories that we blew up chasing the crazy little mustache man around.
 

isonic

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Provided GM does actually release this car to the US market I will be very excited. I grew up a GM die hard, but turned to VW when I wanted a small car. At the time I was buying my car GM didn't offer anything that really sparked my interest.

Like mentioned above, price will be key. I have too have seen a noticeable amount of Cruze's on the road, so people like the car. If the diesel can be priced competitively I think it will sell.

Does any one know if this is a GM developed diesel or did they buy it from some one?
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Do see a fair bit more Cruze models here, too. But I would not necessarily say it is just because people "like" them. There were lots of Cobalts here, too, and hoards of craptastic J-bodies before them. I think the reason so many sold were because they were cheap and the brand loyalists were going to buy them regardless.... they did not cross shop anything else.

If GM could not count on brand loyalists, I'd imagine current Cruze sales would be much, much lower. Prospects of selling diesel versions would be even more bleak.

GM's marketing as of late does seem to be heavy on the patriotic side, which is nothing new. I for one am not ready to part with my hard earned money just to "buy American", and it is not just because I really know the true source of much of the content of these so-called American models.

But in the end, more cars here available with a diesel engine is a good thing, in my opinion. And if they wear a bowtie, so be it. I'll still be driving a Volkswagen. Chevy runs deep... but my 'dubs run deeper. :D
 

thebigarniedog

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{EDITED}


That is the key. I think they will end up doing what Volkswagen has done: tie the diesel engine to the highest trim level only, and it will end up in the $25k range, and become a slow seller. How many $25k Golf TDIs do you think Volkswagen would sell here if they bothered to sell a 1.4L TFSI gasser here for $20k that gets the same fuel economy? The small diesel cars in Europe are actually LOSING sales recently to these newer gassers. Diesels are still strong in B and C segment cars (like the ones we hardly can get anyways) and of course dominant in trucks and commercial vehicles (while we get purpose-built gasser failtrains like the Transit Connect with leftover Focus drivelines in them, complete with manditory slushbox :rolleyes: ).

I think the Cruze Diesel will be a hard sell for Chevy dealers here. Sure, you'll get some diesel die-hards to buy them, but (like Volkswagen TDI buyers) those seem to be a small crowd here. :(
I think you nailed it, especially with what they did in recent past with the Volt. This is an area where GM has an opportunity to introduce an affordable sub $20(k) tdi with kick arse mileage. Sadly, the fail is and always has been strong with GM. I blame Bob.
 
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WutGas?

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Dunno513, simpleton is a very polite way of putting it.
Labeling an entire group of people ignorant fools because they don't think exactly like you do is far from polite. Not to mention assuming they have a sub-12th grade education, isn't very polite either.
 
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40X40

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Do see a fair bit more Cruze models here, too. But I would not necessarily say it is just because people "like" them. There were lots of Cobalts here, too, and hoards of craptastic J-bodies before them. I think the reason so many sold were because they were cheap and the brand loyalists were going to buy them regardless.... they did not cross shop anything else.

If GM could not count on brand loyalists, I'd imagine current Cruze sales would be much, much lower. Prospects of selling diesel versions would be even more bleak.

GM's marketing as of late does seem to be heavy on the patriotic side, which is nothing new. I for one am not ready to part with my hard earned money just to "buy American", and it is not just because I really know the true source of much of the content of these so-called American models.

But in the end, more cars here available with a diesel engine is a good thing, in my opinion. And if they wear a bowtie, so be it. I'll still be driving a Volkswagen. Chevy runs deep... but my 'dubs run deeper. :D

You nailed it. There is nothing patriotic about running a company into the ground. I might buy a GM product, but I will look elsewhere first.

BTW, Toyota claims that a 2012 Camry has more USA content than an F-150.:eek:

Bill
 

compu_85

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OK guys knock it off. I'm going to go through and remove off topic posts in this thread. This is not political chat.
 

BadMonKey

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Do see a fair bit more Cruze models here, too. But I would not necessarily say it is just because people "like" them. There were lots of Cobalts here, too, and hoards of craptastic J-bodies before them. I think the reason so many sold were because they were cheap and the brand loyalists were going to buy them regardless.... they did not cross shop anything else.

If GM could not count on brand loyalists, I'd imagine current Cruze sales would be much, much lower. Prospects of selling diesel versions would be even more bleak.:D

Its a very big stretch to say that someone would drop $15+K on a new car they didn't like loyalist or not. They may not know any better that they could get something else better but for less but that doesn't mean they didn't like the car when they bought it. I also still see hoards of J-bodies still running around and some of them are over 30 years old now so they cant be that awful.

I use to think that Ford was producing a better product with the Focus but after several rental cars between the two I would go with the Cruze now due to the awful transmission in the Ford. Had one completely die leaving me stranded on a highway in Texas and they all are Jerky and grabby at low city speeds.

If i was in the market for a new $15K ecobox IMO Hyundai/Kia cant be beat. I highly doubt a diesel option in the Cruze will change that or make it more economical to own and drive which is the whole point in that class. I would also guess they wont offer it with a manual transmission which eliminates a lot of the diesel loyalists i know.

I don't understand why GM would start their diesel re-introduction in the US with the cruze which is one of their lowest margin vehicles sold here and with extremely competitive fuel economy competitors. A diesel engine option in something like a Traverse or Colorado would stomp its competition in regards to fuel economy and with the very large margin on those vehicles it could absorb some of the added costs from the diesel engine. I think the soccer moms would go crazy for a 30+mpg 3rd row seater that wasn't a gutless turd and could go 500+ miles on a tank of fuel.
 

BadMonKey

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BTW, Toyota claims that a 2012 Camry has more USA content than an F-150.:eek:

Bill
Toyota:eek: Speaking of running a company into the ground they are doing it even faster than GM did:)

I believe the idea is that profits and management stay in the US where the profits and management with Toyota go back to Japan.
 

Chris Tobin

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I'm all for more diesel vehicles here no matter what badge they wear. I am a GM guy at heart and I look forward to driving the Cruze diesel. I would also like to see GM and the other manufacturers put their small diesels in their 1/2-ton trucks and SUVs. Hopefully someday that will happen too, as they have already done the engineering and tooling on these engines, they just need to get the guts to pull the trigger and put them into production!
 
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