Crank install, what else

smelly621

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Location
Sonoma County, CA
TDI
2001 Golf, 2003 Tacoma
With your current level of boost, the max you have planned and only being in a sidekick it's likely not worth the additional work to go with upgraded pistons and rods. I thought this was in a larger Toyota truck with armor etc. - must be mixing your user name up with someone else.

There are a number of the 1.9PD motors that pistons can be borrowed from. You do need to run tapered small end rods with them and adjust the oil sprayers or change them out to the corresponding PD ones the point in the right location.

Read Digital Corpus's build thread for more good details on an AHU build up if you determine you need more ummmf from your motor.
 

andy2

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Location
Bowmanville,Ontario,Canada
TDI
13 Jetta,94 Golf drag car 585bhp,Samurai buggy BHW 300bhp,97 Ram cummins
Tons of great info here. Thank you. Is it possible that having that flex plate loose could hurt the bearings? I ask because it seems to have taken out the rear main seal....
While I don't remember doing it, I just can't believe I didn't torque those bolts AND have loctite on them. Not sure why they came loose.
I'd say that the leaking crank seal was possikly a separate issue.I've had loose flywheel bolts at 9000 rpm on one of my TDI's and not had any bearing or seal issues. The longer ACME supplied bolts in my kit I think were part of the reason that helped loosen them off.

Most TDI swaps into Suzuki's are likely with stock powered TDI's or even old IDI's.Once you make more torque and/or Hp then there is a possibility for things to come loose.

With your current level of boost, the max you have planned and only being in a sidekick it's likely not worth the additional work to go with upgraded pistons and rods. I thought this was in a larger Toyota truck with armor etc. - must be mixing your user name up with someone else.
Being the owner of a cranked up TDI powered Suzuki I take offense to this :p.

To the OP,I still run an unopened AHU bottom end without cyl head removed @ 190-210 hp and 35 psi boost for years now.I only added head studs and stronger aftermarket gasser dual valve springs.

The bottom end is currently not 100 % and lacking compression however it still makes more power than ever after adding an intercooler and a second turbo.

Do I do the Intermediate shaft bearing while I am in there?
If the oil pressure was acceptable before the crank replacement then I might skip replacing the IM shaft bearings.Wouldn't hurt to have a look at the oil pump and drive tang on the vaccum pump to see if they are in good condition if you have not looked at it before.
 
Last edited:

TDI-T

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Location
Dry part of the NW
TDI
97 AHU
I'd say that the leaking crank seal was possikly a separate issue.I've had loose flywheel bolts at 9000 rpm on one of my TDI's and not had any bearing or seal issues. The longer ACME supplied bolts in my kit I think were part of the reason that helped loosen them off.
Thanks! Did you use regular blue loctite? I found those ARP bolts for about $36.

The worst part of this conversion x2 is grinding the nub off another crank....
 

smelly621

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Location
Sonoma County, CA
TDI
2001 Golf, 2003 Tacoma
Andy - not a dig on the "worth" of a sidekick - merely a complement on the svelte weight of the zook vs. say my 4000lb empty Toyota. ;)

You and the OP have me nervous now about my flywheel bolts. I used the ACME supplied ones with blue loctite. I think I torqued to the spec Jeff had in the adapter plate instructions. If I have the trans off for anything else soon would you advise using red loctite or upgrading to an ARP fastener?

Is crank nub grinding another AHU specific thing? I don't recall any mods to the crank required for the ACME setup?
 

TDI-T

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Location
Dry part of the NW
TDI
97 AHU
Is crank nub grinding another AHU specific thing? I don't recall any mods to the crank required for the ACME setup?
My instructions say to take the rear bit (area that protrudes that is inside the diameter of the bolt holes) of the crank down to 5/32". Perhaps because you have a Yota kit?
 
Last edited:

smelly621

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Location
Sonoma County, CA
TDI
2001 Golf, 2003 Tacoma
Must be the difference. Haven't seen any builds on here with the zuk auto transmission I guess.

Does the flexplate rest against the ground down crank snout? If so, I could see how slight imperfections there after the grinding could lead to the bolts working loose over time.
 

TDI-T

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Location
Dry part of the NW
TDI
97 AHU
Must be the difference. Haven't seen any builds on here with the zuk auto transmission I guess.
Does the flexplate rest against the ground down crank snout? If so, I could see how slight imperfections there after the grinding could lead to the bolts working loose over time.
I'm pretty sure you need to do this with a manual, too. I'll let Andy2 confirm, but my instructions are for both.

I agree on the imperfections. The kit includes an adapter that sits flush, but anything is possible.
 

andy2

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Location
Bowmanville,Ontario,Canada
TDI
13 Jetta,94 Golf drag car 585bhp,Samurai buggy BHW 300bhp,97 Ram cummins
Andy - not a dig on the "worth" of a sidekick - merely a complement on the svelte weight of the zook vs. say my 4000lb empty Toyota. ;)

You and the OP have me nervous now about my flywheel bolts. I used the ACME supplied ones with blue loctite. I think I torqued to the spec Jeff had in the adapter plate instructions. If I have the trans off for anything else soon would you advise using red loctite or upgrading to an ARP fastener?

Is crank nub grinding another AHU specific thing? I don't recall any mods to the crank required for the ACME setup?
Thanks for the clarification.I didn't mean to assume :)

I'm not sure if the crank grinding is only for the AHU or not.I'm guessing that it might need to be done to any crankshaft for any Suzuki trans that ACME mates to a VW.

I'm pretty sure you need to do this with a manual, too. I'll let Andy2 confirm, but my instructions are for both.

I agree on the imperfections. The kit includes an adapter that sits flush, but anything is possible.
Shortening the crank nose is just done for clearance.The flywheel or flexplate adapter should still sit square/true on the crankshaft after the mod.

I'm sure that I used blue locktite when I put mine back together.We made a crankshaft to flexplate adapter for my TH350 flexplate when adapting it and I'm pretty sure that I just used new torque to yeild VW Style bolts with additional blue locktie when assembling.

I could have bought another set of arp's but must have figured that they weren't necessary.

I don't like the longer than factory VW bolts that are used in some of these swaps.

It would be worth re checking that your adapter is sitting flush with the new crankshaft just in case there is a clearance issue.I'm almost 100% sure that the ALH crankshaft/sprocket/bolt is direct swap to to older AHU/1Z.I know someone that has put the ALH crank into the AHU however his had a mechanical fuel injection pump.Not sure if the 1Z/AHU crank trigger wheel is the same or equivalent to the ALH ?
 

TDI-T

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Location
Dry part of the NW
TDI
97 AHU
Just heard back from the machine shop. He said my "new to me" crank will polish up to standard.

I'm not planning on removing the head. Just some new bearings and bolts all around. This will be my first time doing bearings myself. I plan on using some Lucas break-in lube on the bearing surfaces and trying to be extra ordinarily clean in my garage.

I have to get brand new adapter items from ACME. The old ones are far too gone. A transmission shop recommended that I use a dial indicator and put the torque converter on it without the transmission to make sure it is within .002 of wobble. Could this catastrosphe have hurt my torque converter?

I'll have to learn/mess with the dial indicator I guess. I'm also going to try some ARPs for the flex plate to crank, Andy2. My oil pump had great pressure and there were only 168,000 miles on the engine so I may not touch it. Andy2, you said check it and the vacuum pump. Do you mean the clearance check? I think I saw that in the FSM.

Sound like a plan?
 
Last edited:

smelly621

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Location
Sonoma County, CA
TDI
2001 Golf, 2003 Tacoma
Sounds reasonable to me given all the circumstances. Not sure about the Zuk transmission version of the adapter plate - but the Toyota one is definitely not anywhere near centered out of the box. The advice to dial indicate the crank centerline is wise - but I am not sure exactly how you will do that with your transmission.

To do so on the Toyota trans I borrowed a cut-off slice of a w56 trans case from Jimbote - then bolted that to my transmission bellhousing and then assembled the whole rig to the motor.

I attached my dial indicator mag base to a flat area on the flywheel, then indicated on the input bearing opening on the transmission slice. Much adjustment was required to get within acceptable specs. Obviously this is much easier with the engine on a hoist than in the vehicle.

If you do some google image searching for "dial indicate crank center" there are lots of good visuals of how the old hot rod crowd has done it over the years. It helped me understand how to set things up.
 

TDI-T

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Location
Dry part of the NW
TDI
97 AHU
To do so on the Toyota trans I borrowed a cut-off slice of a w56 trans case from Jimbote - then bolted that to my transmission bellhousing and then assembled the whole rig to the motor.
I attached my dial indicator mag base to a flat area on the flywheel, then indicated on the input bearing opening on the transmission slice. Much adjustment was required to get within acceptable specs. Obviously this is much easier with the engine on a hoist than in the vehicle.
If you do some google image searching for "dial indicate crank center" there are lots of good visuals of how the old hot rod crowd has done it over the years. It helped me understand how to set things up.
I suppose I could separate the bellhousing from the auto transmission pump. The auto trans on these are used in quite a few vehicles - Yotas, Mitsus, Izuzu's, Volvo's... The bell housings are just different.
At bit of a PIA, but I really don't want to have the same problem again. I'll try to find some images like you recommend. I'm trying to visualize it, but I need some pics like you mentioned.
Andy2, I would like to know what turbo you are running?! 35 psi? Woah.
 

andy2

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Location
Bowmanville,Ontario,Canada
TDI
13 Jetta,94 Golf drag car 585bhp,Samurai buggy BHW 300bhp,97 Ram cummins
Just heard back from the machine shop. He said my "new to me" crank will polish up to standard.

I'm not planning on removing the head. Just some new bearings and bolts all around. This will be my first time doing bearings myself. I plan on using some Lucas break-in lube on the bearing surfaces and trying to be extra ordinarily clean in my garage.

I have to get brand new adapter items from ACME. The old ones are far too gone. A transmission shop recommended that I use a dial indicator and put the torque converter on it without the transmission to make sure it is within .002 of wobble. Could this catastrosphe have hurt my torque converter?

I'll have to learn/mess with the dial indicator I guess. I'm also going to try some ARPs for the flex plate to crank, Andy2. My oil pump had great pressure and there were only 168,000 miles on the engine so I may not touch it. Andy2, you said check it and the vacuum pump. Do you mean the clearance check? I think I saw that in the FSM.

Sound like a plan?
Its quite possible that the converter and or transmission could be damaged.

Here is a great post showing what I was trying to explain about the oil and vacuum pump.

https://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=5238023&postcount=11
 

TDI-T

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Location
Dry part of the NW
TDI
97 AHU
Here is a great post showing what I was trying to explain about the oil and vacuum pump.
https://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=5238023&postcount=11
Gotcha. So make sure there is not too much bow tie. Funny enough I think I stumbled across that post the other day. Thanks for taking the time to post it.
After reading posts regarding "integral thrust" do and don'ts on the Kolbenschmidt bearings I'm leaning away from them. I've been looking at bearing posts for days it seems. I'm honestly thinking of just getting this kit:
http://www.idparts.com/engine-block-rebuild-kit-ahu-1z-p-2951.html
There are some savings by getting it all together. I wasn't going to do an oil pump, but it comes with.
Anyone tried this kit?
 

turbovan+tdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
The only way the TC could be damaged is if the hub walked on the adapter and got egg shaped or machined down etc. Inspect for damage.
 

TDI-T

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Location
Dry part of the NW
TDI
97 AHU
Well, I'm finally about to tear into this. The engine is on a stand and ready to be disassembled. One sort of major question:

I can lock my injection pump and cam, but what is the best way to ensure my crankshaft goes in at exactly the right location for the new sprocket I purchased? Just make sure the flat spot of the crank is in the same location? That seems less than precise, but maybe that is the only way?
 

flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
A simple way would be to fab a pointer for the flywheel mark before disassembly.
 

TDI-T

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Location
Dry part of the NW
TDI
97 AHU
A simple way would be to fab a pointer for the flywheel mark before disassembly.
Any ideas if I don't have a flex plate or flywheel? I've got my harmonic balancer marked with the plastic front cover, but on this conversion you remove the VW flywheel - hence why I marked the balancer.

Seems that balancer is pretty picky about the way it goes on. If I bolt up the new sprocket and use the balancer mark I made will that still be correct?

Trying to double check things before I pull it apart and get lost.
 

jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI
TDI
2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh
I believe if you find TDC of #1 piston that is where you want your crank timed. Dial indicator if the head is off, or a stop located in the injector bore or threaded in to the glow plug hole. You could then rotate the engine forward, mark the pully at contact, then backward, mark the pulley at contact, and TDC would be between the 2 points.
Is that help you? Wait awhile, If I am off base or there is a better way, someone will chime in, but I seem to remember someone on the blog mentioning this as working for them.
 

TDI-T

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Location
Dry part of the NW
TDI
97 AHU
I believe if you find TDC of #1 piston that is where you want your crank timed. Dial indicator if the head is off, or a stop located in the injector bore or threaded in to the glow plug hole. You could then rotate the engine forward, mark the pully at contact, then backward, mark the pulley at contact, and TDC would be between the 2 points.
Is that help you? Wait awhile, If I am off base or there is a better way, someone will chime in, but I seem to remember someone on the blog mentioning this as working for them.
Well, I've currently got it at TDC. I'm wondering how easily I can just drop in the crank, connect the rods and still be close? Once I get the sprocket back on and the harmonic balancer I wonder if that will help me fine tune it?

Can I just move the adjuster pulley to remove the timing belt and then do the reverse to put it back on? I will mark the direction of the belt.
 

turbovan+tdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
Well, I've currently got it at TDC. I'm wondering how easily I can just drop in the crank, connect the rods and still be close? Once I get the sprocket back on and the harmonic balancer I wonder if that will help me fine tune it?
Can I just move the adjuster pulley to remove the timing belt and then do the reverse to put it back on? I will mark the direction of the belt.
You can use the gp or injector hole and use a dial indicator to find the TDC.
 

TDI-T

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Location
Dry part of the NW
TDI
97 AHU
Is there an order as to which main bearing cap to torque first, second and so on? I don't see one in my FSM? Lots of oil on my new bolts. I hope that is okay? I'm seeing lots of different info during searches regarding oiling the main bolts on an AHU.
 
Last edited:

smelly621

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Location
Sonoma County, CA
TDI
2001 Golf, 2003 Tacoma
I could have sworn my manual had an order specified, but in absence of one you could probably use the same rationale as the cam cap tightening order.

I would be wary of significant amounts of oil on the main bolts - don't want to have so much that you end up compressing it at the bottom of the bolt hole and cracking the block.

I don't think I oiled my main bolts on the ALH. Specified torque + the final 90 degrees seemed quite snug to me.
 

TDI-T

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Location
Dry part of the NW
TDI
97 AHU
I could have sworn my manual had an order specified, but in absence of one you could probably use the same rationale as the cam cap tightening order..
Thanks for the response! I'm thinking of going 3,2,4,1,5. I wonder if the ALH has an order?

I put a small amount of oil on the threads, but pretty light overall I think.
 

turbovan+tdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
Doesn't matter, the crank is loose, it isn't being flattened down by numerous bolts. Start in the middle, end etc.
 

andy2

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Location
Bowmanville,Ontario,Canada
TDI
13 Jetta,94 Golf drag car 585bhp,Samurai buggy BHW 300bhp,97 Ram cummins
I have used some arp bolts (#524-2801) from a ford 4.6/5.4L flywheel application on my other TDI that used a flywheel from spec clutch.They were a perfect replacement for the stock length vw bolts.I also doweled the crank to flywheel in that case as the flywheel had friction welded itself to the crankshaft when the bolts came loose.

From what I remember the acme flywheel bolts in my case were longer than the factory vw ones so the ford ARP ones I mentioned might not be long enough depending on the flywheel/flexplate being used.
Just an update about the ARP bolts that I mentioned.I ordered the wrong ones and wanted to correct the information that I gave.

Part # 524-2801 (flywheel bolt) is longer than the factory vw flywheel bolt.

http://arp-bolts.com/kits/ARPkit-detail.php?RecordID=1688

Part # 524-2901 (flexplate bolt) is the same length as the factory vw flywheel bolt.

http://arp-bolts.com/kits/ARPkit-detail.php?RecordID=1689
 
Last edited:

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Out of curiosity how long is that wrong bolt?

I have to use longer than stock for my adapter.
UHL in the link is "under head length"
ford pinto motor bolts are what I used on my 6spd twin disc ceramic clutch flywheel, 1.15" UHL, longest 10x1.0 I could easily find

Lots of motors used m10x1.0
If the OP hasn't taken his motor apart yet, I'd suggest drilling and tapping the ruined holes out to a larger size. Was thinking of going m12x1.0 (honda) or m11x1.0 (ford zetec) on mine.
 
Last edited:

mk3pd

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Location
Norway
TDI
Passat Quattro :)
UHL in the link is "under head length"
ford pinto motor bolts are what I used on my 6spd twin disc ceramic clutch flywheel, 1.15" UHL, longest 10x1.0 I could easily find

Lots of motors used m10x1.0
If the OP hasn't taken his motor apart yet, I'd suggest drilling and tapping the ruined holes out to a larger size. Was thinking of going m12x1.0 (honda) or m11x1.0 (ford zetec) on mine.
Or even better,use this shim http://rosten-performance.com/produ...l/vwaudi-ekagrip-6-bolt-4cyl-flywheel-shim-2/
 
Top