97 GLX Alloy Rims on 96 B4 TDI?

trhaverstock

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Location
Quincy, Illinois
TDI
1996 Passat TDI Windsor Blue
I picked up some alloy rims from a 97 Passat GLX for a very very good price. They're the 5 bolt pattern. I'd like to mount them on my 96 Passat TDI - it has the 4 bolt pattern hubs!

I did some searching on the forums and most of the posts suggest against doing this - ranging from high complexity to high cost.

I located some "hub adapters" online here:
http://www.vw-store.com/Images/wheeladapters.jpeg. This picture does not represent me measuring whether or not this will work.

Has anyone else already done this and can share on the best course of action? Am I heading in the right direction?


Thanks, Todd. 96 Passat TDI 150K miles
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
How thick are the spacers? Subtract that thickness from the offset of the GLX wheels. The stock B4 TDI 14 inch wheels have a 35 mm offset, the center of the rim width is 35 mm inboard of the disc to wheel interface. If the B4 GLX wheels also have a 35 mm offset, and the spacer is 1 inch thick, the effective GLX offset will be 10 mm. This much difference from the original geometry will undoubtedly create handling and full lock clearance issues.
Sell the GLX wheels. Use the money for some Honda four bolt alloys.
 

DubbedDiesel

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Joined
Oct 27, 2005
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TDI
1997 VW Passat TDI
I agree with Lug_Nut. Conversion isn't worth contemplating IMO. Find the correct ones and you'll open a bunch of options for yourself including the opportunity to save money. Tons of Civic folks are selling their rims and they'll fit nicely on a B4 4 bolt. Sell the 5 bolts that you have to help fund the rims and you'll likely be better off.


 

bloc

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Apr 25, 2006
Location
Austin, Tx
TDI
2013 Touareg TDI
plus those adapters are almost never as strong as the original hub to wheel interface.
 

trhaverstock

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Location
Quincy, Illinois
TDI
1996 Passat TDI Windsor Blue
Well thanks for the advice. I'd better set my sights on the more realistic MFA conversion instead ;-). Anyone want to buy 4 GLX rims? Don't jump on it or I'll be suspicious. -T
 

R2point0

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Sep 15, 2004
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Poolesville, MD
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Passat, 2015, Silver; Passat, 1997, Blue
I think it should be pointed out that a proper 5-lug conversion also gets you the Plus suspension.
 

TDIray

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Joined
Aug 26, 2002
Location
Middle Tennessee
TDI
98 Jetta, 99 NB & 03 Golf TDI's
I would like to put some alloys on my 1998 Jetta. I read the Honda Civic wheel works (4 X 100?). Do they come in 15" and 16" or just 14"? What do you used for center caps?
Thanks
 

trhaverstock

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Location
Quincy, Illinois
TDI
1996 Passat TDI Windsor Blue
steve_s said:
If all you are looking for is 15 inch wheels/tires, try a set of Corrado wheels. Search for a thread on that topic.
I was looking to take the GLX / VR6 Passat alloy rims and mount em on a 96 TDI. I liked their stock look on the Passat. the alloys have a 5 hole pattern and the TDIs the 4 hole. Somebody said something about hub centric? It sounds like a royal pain to otherwise tear apart the tdi guts and buy GLX parts to throw on there. -T
 

Lug_Nut

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idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
TRH, I still have the Borbets (4x100, 15 inch, et45, with bolts) if you have an interest in a swap. These are not new wheels. One had a slight rim blip. I finally had it straightened last year. Some curb rash on the lips but otherwise in fine condition.
Dieseldorf got them used from someone, before selling them to Natescape, from whom I acquired them. I'd hate to be the last in this chain.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
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idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
Another idea:
Have the four bolt hubs and rotors machined for another set of holes making an eight bolt pattern. Pick one existing hole as a start point for an additional 5 bolt pattern. Use holes 1, 3, 5, and 7 for the four bolt GLS wheels, and 1, 2, 4, 6, and 8 for the five bolt GLX wheels.
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
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Oct 11, 2000
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MA
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ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Lug_Nut said:
Dieseldorf got them used from someone, before selling them to Natescape, from whom I acquired them. I'd hate to be the last in this chain.

LOL, I bought them new for this car:




'Tis a handsome design! :)
 

R2point0

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Passat, 2015, Silver; Passat, 1997, Blue
Lug_Nut said:
Another idea:
Have the four bolt hubs and rotors machined for another set of holes making an eight bolt pattern. Pick one existing hole as a start point for an additional 5 bolt pattern. Use holes 1, 3, 5, and 7 for the four bolt GLS wheels, and 1, 2, 4, 6, and 8 for the five bolt GLX wheels.
I'm not following the geometry here, but it sound like you are suggesting the same method used to convert aircooled VW drums (4x130) to Porsche bolt pattern (5x130): Pick a hole and use it as the start point for a 5 bolt pattern, overlain on top of the 4 bolt pattern.

One problem is that, with a 4x100 pattern, some of the holes will be too close together - overlapping, I think.

There are always conversion hubs available.
 

jag60mk2

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Oct 18, 2002
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Little Egg Harbor, NJ
TDI
Passat Sedan and Wagon, 1997, Green

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
R2point0 said:
One problem is that, with a 4x100 pattern, some of the holes will be too close together - overlapping, I think.
A 4x100 pattern has a circle diameter of 314.16 mm (pi times the diameter). Four holes at 90 degree intervals puts the center of each hole at 78.54 mm (314.16/4) around that circle circumference. Five holes at 72 degree intervals puts the center of the bolt holes at 62.8 mm (314.16/5) around the circle. There is one hole that overlaps, the starting hole. The others have at minimum 3.74 space between the edges of the 12 mm diameter holes (new 72 to 90 degree holes, and new 270 to 288 degree holes) the others (new 144 and 216 degree to old 180 degree) have 19.9 mm between the hole edges.
 

R2point0

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Passat, 2015, Silver; Passat, 1997, Blue
3.74 mm? Me no likey. That being said, one trick I always wanted to try was loading the unused holes with old lug bolts slathered with Locktite Green bearing retaining compound. This stuff will fill gaps, so it would compensate for loose threads. Then grind the lug bold heads off, leaving a fluch surface. Now the "empty" holes aren't so empty, and the stress riser shouldn't be as great.
 

Lug_Nut

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Joined
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Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
As far as metalurgical stresses go, your filled holes would be no stronger than if you had left them empty. Had you filled them with weld and then ground them down I could see your point, but whether inserting grade 8 studs or chewing gum makes no difference regardless of the thread dope you prefer. There is still an interface between one structure (rotor) and another (stud).
When used with the M12x1 fine pitch thread and torqued to no more than the recommended 90 lb*ft the rotor will come nowhere near the yield strength of the 3.74 mm minimum wall distance.
 

TDIDaveNH

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Feb 17, 2009
Location
North Conway, NH
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1997 Passat TDI x2 1984 Buick Century 4.3 diesel
I'm contemplating a 5 bolt conversion on a B4 TDI have reviewed the relevant postings and chosen how I want to do it but a few questions remain. Before I get to them, my interest in this is bigger brakes and I am not interested in the 4x100 15" corrado steelie route or the full GLX suspension swap route. I want to be somewhere in between. If I have to buy conversion hubs fine, but...well here we go:​

WHY exactly is it a GLX hub (I call it a drive flange) will not interface properly to a TDI spindle? Spline difference on the CV axle perhaps? a spacing issue? I have heard the 5 speed GLX will, but the Auto GLX will not...true?

NEXT: I've reviewed the two FRONT brake options and have looked at calipers at my local salvage yards to compare and I like the Girling caliper better than the ATE set-up. With that said, will a carrier for a girling bolt right up to my stock TDI spindles with out modification?
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
I'm contemplating a 5 bolt conversion on a B4 TDI have reviewed the relevant postings and chosen how I want to do it but a few questions remain. Before I get to them, my interest in this is bigger brakes and I am not interested in the 4x100 15" corrado steelie route or the full GLX suspension swap route. I want to be somewhere in between. If I have to buy conversion hubs fine, but...well here we go:​

WHY exactly is it a GLX hub (I call it a drive flange) will not interface properly to a TDI spindle? Spline difference on the CV axle perhaps? a spacing issue? I have heard the 5 speed GLX will, but the Auto GLX will not...true?

NEXT: I've reviewed the two FRONT brake options and have looked at calipers at my local salvage yards to compare and I like the Girling caliper better than the ATE set-up. With that said, will a carrier for a girling bolt right up to my stock TDI spindles with out modification?
I believe a GLX hub could be pressed into the standard 4 cyl wheel bearing and spindle, but the splines on the outer CV are indeed different.

Auto vs. manual makes no difference. VR6 hubs are VR6 hubs no matter the trans. In fact according to my sources, the axles themselves are absolutely identical auto vs. manual on Mk3 VR6 setups. So the axle flanges on the trans are also identical as is the shaft length.

For the record, if you were to use an entire VR6 front spindle, it requires a different style ball joint than the 4 cylinder cars as well. The 4 cylinder cars use a grooved stud designed for a pinch bolt, the VR6 cars use a taper fit and a threaded stud. Swapping the control arms isn't necessary (although it is a nice modification that should give you a little more positive caster, but this would also mean swapping the sway bar as the way those attach to the arms is very very different). Making the spindles fit isn't hard at all when you just replace the ball joint.

I cannot comment on the Girling setup. I don't know anything about it. But if you can fit significantly larger front brakes and keep it a 4 lug (unless you also are doing this to get different wheels) and merely do a rear disc conversion that could be worthwhile. The rear disc setup is essentially the same 4 cyl vs. VR6, it's just a matter of having a different disc (which doubles as the rear hub).

The 12 point axle nut is 30mm, just like the 6 point :)
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
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Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
Oh! Forgot about this part. The VR6 vs. 4 cyl calipers are NOT interchangeable (can't bolt VR6 calipers to 4 cylinder spindle). You do absolutely need the VR6 spindle to fit the VR6 calipers (which are required for the larger rotors and matching pads...).

So if you're not going the route of changing the entire front suspension, you would need just the VR6 ball joints (which bolt up to the 4 cyl control arms but as I said in my previous post, the ball joint stud is a different fit into the spindle) and VR6 outer CVs to properly fit the hub.

Hope that clarifies :)
 
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