White Smoke and Extra Rough Vibration/Idle on Cold Start then Runs Normal when Warm??

Texas_sky

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
ATX/Mile Hi
TDI
2001 GOLF TDI 2dr 5spd
All the sudden car just started doing this, I had a bad oil leak but always checked the oil and kept it near the full mark or at least on the dipstick. Recently replaced turbo, I had the piston and rod replaced with new headgasket and headbolts/rod bearings back at 123k, currently at 140k, I recently had a compression test preformed while engine was warm with results of 500 on each cylinder. Oil leak has been fixed but leaks a little under the vaccum pump (gasket replaced but still drips) Basically what happens is the car runs really rough and blows a ton of white smoke, when engine reachs a certain temp the engine switches over to normal, its almost automatic, like it runs rough then all the sudden everything is fine. Before I had the rod replaced the car emmitted black smoke into the air, now its white. I'm hoping the lower half of the engine is fine, just need to replace head? Timing is correct, both on belt and injection pump, just had that set 1k miles back but it was out of timing for quite sometime. Timing belt has never broke. Another thing I forgot to mention is before this issue came about the engine was always unusually quiet when I start it then when it warms up it starts to sound like a tdi. Should I run a cold compression test?
Please post comments/opinions/advice... thanks!:)

New Piston #2, New Headgasket, rod bearings, torqued to proper spec 17k back
Coolant Temp Sensor replaced with green one 17k back
New Rebuilt Garret vnt 15 turbo 2k back
 
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whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Recheck the timing. If the advance piston is sticking, you can set the timing, then come back later and it will be off the graph. Reset and repeat. This will require a pump rebuild so I hope that I'm wrong.
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
I had to pop the cam sprocket off and move the pump pulley one tooth over (re-center it) to get the timing on the graph.

He told me this engine ingested a lot of water at one point. I suspect a bent rod, but don't know how to confirm it short of pulling the head and measuring deck height. He also said that it ran fine after they put the #2 rod in and it only started with the jumpy cold idle after the recent turbo replacement. It reminded me of Gus' (NorthernSky) car when he had a bent rod after a blown turbo. the engine just sort of hops up and down a little.
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
Hmmm, wonder if I could adapt a dial indicator to thread into the glow plug hole and weather that would give me a meaningful measurement.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
runonbeer said:
Hmmm, wonder if I could adapt a dial indicator to thread into the glow plug hole and weather that would give me a meaningful measurement.
You would have to get a measurement of the full travel to know and I don't htink that you can do that at that angle.

Since Robby did the timing, you are in good hands; he knows how to check for sticky advance solenoids. how about a simple compression check?
 

Texas_sky

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
ATX/Mile Hi
TDI
2001 GOLF TDI 2dr 5spd
Rob did a compression test, came up w/ positive results. I'm gonna replace the coolant temp sensor again to see if this helps. Engine literally goes from extreme vibration seats shaking to 100% normal when it hits the 190 mark on the temp gauge. Could possibly be a short from the wiring to the ecu from the CTS. When you have a bent rod do you normally get a misfire code? last time my rod was bent I had a misfire code. So far no codes since leaving the shop in Austin. Fuel economy seems to be down a little.


Update: Just went outside after letting car sit for 3 hours cranked it, it ran rough for a minute then switched over to smooth with the temp only reading less then quarter on the gauge, then I let it sit for about 45-hour in 50 degree weather and cranked it and it ran rough again till i could get it back up to normal operating temp.
 
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tdimog

New member
Joined
Mar 29, 2009
Location
CHARLOTTE NC
TDI
2001 JETTA GLS 5SPD W/114k MI
I am having exactly the same problem on a 2001 Jetta (114 K Miles).

No fault codes. New intake. New turbo (the old one broke the shaft in half).

After a cold start with white blueish smoke and rough idle and noisy clatter, I drive it for less than a mile and it clears up, my boost gauge will read 22 PSI MAX and it runs strong, like nothing happened.

Did the ECT sensor fix your problem?

Any ideas or suggestion?
 

tressindar

Member
Joined
May 22, 2008
Location
Eugene Oregon
TDI
2000 Golf
Cold misfire and smoke 2000 TDI Golf

I also have this problem with my 2000 TDI Golf. Starts rough, smokes a lot at idle and below about 1500 rpm but drives fine above. It's also notable that it isn't triggering the engine light. I have 240k with upgraded injectors and a veggie kit.

Today I scraped coking off the injectors, cleaned the air filter, replaced the fuel filter and made sure the glow system was tip top. I suspect the timing may have jumped and will be checking it in the morning. Another possibility seems to be the temperature sensor. I will keep you all posted.
 

cbulg23

New member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Location
New Hamburg
TDI
2003 Golf TDI
White smoke and runs rough

I was just wondering if anyone has figured out a solution to this problem? I have changed my fuel filter and air filter, and now my car is at my buddies to see if he can find the problem. By reading everyone's post, it sounds like we are all dealing with the same problem.
 

internationalmike

New member
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Location
michigan
TDI
96 passat tdi, 00 jetta tdi
I had the same problem too. Was searching for the cause on this forum a few weeks ago and found this post. Car was running fine, turbo failed (shaft broke). After replacing turbo it difficult to start cold, very smoky (unburnt fuel) and rough. Once driven would smooth out to near normal. I assume the oil carboned up the rings, so i soaked the cyls with seafoam. Helped but didn't cure it. Anyway I tore down the engine expecting to find broken rings from sucking in oil and hydrolocking. Instead found bent rods (ouch). Replaced the rods (did rings and bearings too - would be dumb not to) runs great now smooth as silk. That is if you can really compare silk to a diesel engine.
 

tressindar

Member
Joined
May 22, 2008
Location
Eugene Oregon
TDI
2000 Golf
Bent Rods but runs fine while warm?

That sounds kind of ludicrous to me. I'm not saying you didn't have bent rods, I'm just saying that perhaps the degree to which it "smoothed out to nearly normal" for you is probably not the same degree to which my car smooths out when it gets warm.

The only real differences when it's cold are that more fuel is added and the timing is retarded. I don't see how advancing the timing could remedy - even partially - an issue caused by a bent rod.

I have ordered a fuel temperature sensor for mine and hope that's the problem. If it isn't then perhaps I'll pursue the possibility you suggest.

Also, International Mike: Had you done any performance upgrades to your TDI and do you know why your turbo shaft broke? Thanks.
 

internationalmike

New member
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Location
michigan
TDI
96 passat tdi, 00 jetta tdi
No mods . The engine ran poorly when cold due to the lowered compression. I figure when the motor sucked in the oil from the turbo ( the motor lost 3-4 quarts rapidly when it let go) it can't compress the oil and something had to give. I was shocked when i saw the rods, but it had made some scary noises after the turbo let go, and i must of drained a quart out of the hose from the turbo to the intercooler. Oh and as far as smoothing out, the only thing noticeable after the initial driveaway/ first minute of idling was a slight "buck" at steady cruise around 1800rpm in 4th or 5th gear. Was smooth at above 2000 or under any acceleration. I still can't believe it ran as good as it did with those rods.
 
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tressindar

Member
Joined
May 22, 2008
Location
Eugene Oregon
TDI
2000 Golf
You Scared me for a Moment

I just checked my compression and I'm above 450psi on all cylinders (with over 240k by the way).

I have a strong suspicion that the problem is either the Fuel Temperature sensor or the EGR valve. I'm still waiting for my temp sensor to arrive and I'll let you all know if it fixes the problem (which has been getting progressively worse).
 

Texas_sky

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
ATX/Mile Hi
TDI
2001 GOLF TDI 2dr 5spd
Keep us posted on your progress, here's a detailed description of my issue below, oh BTW, does anybody experience vibration while under acceleration from speeds of 65-85? Mine vibrates and I know its not the wheels or tires. Which is more likely to cause front end vibration at those speeds a bent rod or bad injector?


First I have to replace injectors, ecu and do a cold compression test then after I do all that I'll know for sure, smokes hard in morning on a cold start and vibrates bad, when it reaches a certain temp is will run normal. On hot days when the engine sits over night and doesn't cool down completely it will run normal faster, on a cold night when it sits it sometimes will take until the 190 on the gauge (halfway) mark. Its almost like you push a button it will run normal on when it warms up, it almost sounds like it could be ECU related or a rod could be slightly bent or something is slightly is off in the head. So basically it runs rough then all the sudden will just switch over to normal, timing belt has never broke, I had piston #2 replaced at 123k w/ new head bolts and gasket, rod bearings, it ran normal until a rebuilt turbo went in the car at 138k about 700 miles after that this problem occurred, I have been driving the car ever since and just letting it idle to warm up since it idles smooth most of the time in warmer climates, current mileage is 151k, I have literally started the car rough in the morning and driven it 850 miles on one of my trips in one day, on colder days it will start up and then die, you have to gradually warm it up when its really cold keep foot on gas around 2k rpm's or it will die on the first couple of cranks. In hotter climates its not affected much so I have to fix it before winter.
 
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tressindar

Member
Joined
May 22, 2008
Location
Eugene Oregon
TDI
2000 Golf
It isn't the Fuel Temp. Sensor

I replaced the fuel temp sensor (inside the injection pump) and it didn't do much to remedy the problem. I know my intake is really gooed up as are most of the intakes on those cars after so many miles. I also do have a bit of oil coming through the intake and some dripping out of the weep hole in my EGR valve though the diaphragm is still good.

My next move will be to pull all the intake off, clean the manifold and the EGR cooler and replace the turbo oil seals (it's ony $50 for the kit from emiata.com). If that doesn't solve the issue I'll fork over the $150 for a new EGR valve. If THAT doesn't solve the issue...
 

tressindar

Member
Joined
May 22, 2008
Location
Eugene Oregon
TDI
2000 Golf
Found the solution!

My problem finally became obvious when oil started pouring out of my intake under the turbocharger. I pulled the intake off and cleaned it and the EGR system and then I rebuilt the turbo just like the other fellow on here.

When I first put it back together it still ran funky which I assume is because of residual oil in the system before the intake manifold and inside the head/combustion chamber. After a couple days it smoothed out and it's been running great ever since.

So, I recommend checking if you're losing oil and if there's lots of oil near the turbo and in the intercooler.

If so, get a turbo rebuild kit and clean that intake while you're at it. Let me know if this helps anybody.

Richey Thomason
2000 TDI Golf 243,000 miles.
 

john7282

New member
Joined
Oct 22, 2011
Location
NJ
TDI
01 Golf TDI
I know this is a two year old thread, but I'm having the same problem, any more ideas?
 

cometbaz

New member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Location
Cumbria
TDI
None
I have had exactly the same fault on a 02 Bora PD 110 of a customer. The turbo let go and damaged the head so we fitted a second hand engine which was fine until an oil pipe let go and knocked the crank out. We then fitted the head off the replacement engine to the original block. Engine was then a pig to start and there were plumes of white smoke smelling of unburnt diesel. Once warm the car ran well with no smoke. We then removed the head and sump and found that every rod was bent which is why the piston heights all looked the same. We changed the rods and the engine started first turn of the key with no white smoke. I could not believe that the car would run so well with the bent rods when warm and so rough when cold. The engine had only raced for 15 seconds when the turbo went so obviously worth checking the rods if you have had a turbo fail and engine runaway.
 

notfrommt

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Location
Green Bay, WI
TDI
00 Green TDI, manual
Try the keystone mod, or at least investigate the case pressure relief valve? Thats my next step, as I have similar problems. Seems more a fuel delivery issue than a mechanical one.
 

Patches4

New member
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Location
Pa.
TDI
2000 Jetta 1.9 TDI
I am a newbie also. This thread seems closest to my problem. I have a 2000 Jetta TDI w/254k. It does not matter the temperature outside or the time of day, the first time you start it, it cranks and cranks and finally kicks off, but rough and clouds of white smoke smelling of raw fuel. Engine smoths out in less than a minute and smoke disappears. Car runs great after that, smoth, no smoke, no vibration, no nothing. You can shut it off and anytime before 3 to 4 hours of sitting you only need touch the switch and it's running. Again, smooth, no smoke, and so on. Engine has lots of power and is quiet. Let it sit overnite or for 4 hours and your back to cranking and cranking and finally starts and smokes like crazy. Checked the EGR, no corrostion, works as it should. Replaced temp. sender, glow plug harness, glow relay, fuel filter and blead the lines. Replaced the fuel lines. Today before trying to start I took the lines loose from the injectors and there was fuel present in all. Then took the supply line off at the pump, and pump and fuel but the line from the filter (which included the clear line) was empty. Oh, one other thing, last night after running it, I pinched off both the supply line before the filter and the return line after the filter. Pulled the clip and removed the T valve this morning, and could not see fuel in the filter!! Put everything back together, removed the clamps and sure enough, crank crank crank and finally started with the same results as before. Where did the fuel go?? The engine is spotlessly clean. There are no leaks. Thought I would be smart, took the supply line from tank and supply line from filter to pump off the filter and put an inline filter between the lines. Shortly after I started the car. It cranked but not as long as before. I could see the inline filter fill up and soon it started. BUT, had to shut it down quickly because fuel was shooting out of the two ports I took the lines off of on the filter. I took a fuel line and connected the two port together. Car started right up, but fuel was spraying out of the small injector lines on the injectors. Shut it off and when I went to take the line off that connected the two open ports on the filter, it BLEW and I got a serious diesel bath. Had to wash my eyes out with warm water and everything. So much for the smart guy, besides, my wife made me strip outside before coming in the house and it is cold!!!! Even after good hot soapy shower, I still smell like an old diesel rag! Any ideas?? I think I'm done exploring without knowledge! Thanks for any help you may be able to give me.
 
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