Project Kill Da Auto Wabbit!, Or how I learned to love the Manual Swap

CoolAirVw said:

I got those parts too. I hope the other peice is just a mistake.

I'm hoping to get the trans in tomorrow night. Waiting on fork, and mount bracket.

Click to expand...

When I put mine together tomorrow morning, it won't have one of those either...I think they goofed, CoolAir...hopefully just threw in an extra part.

Alpha: Just voted. Least I can do. Offer stands for lunch and cocktails if you ever get up this way.

BB: My frustration was misdirected. Sorry man. And good luck with the server.

WooHoo! 5 speeds of fun!
And more fun tomorrow!...Fun of the electrical variety.
I'm going to ask you guys for some help. Any more details now would constitute drinking and posting, but I'll be up bright and early, VAG-COM in hand.

Wasn't as hard as you thought... was it?

alphaseinor said:

Wasn't as hard as you thought... was it?

Click to expand...

For all the cussing at nuts and bolts it was actually pretty easy, thanks to you pioneers.
The electrical sh#!'s gonna be a challenge. Bentley and I are going to be good friends.

Brake lights on at all times when battery connected. No reverse lights.
I don't know what all the 175 did but I betcha the two wires I butt spliced are sending constant power to the brake lights.
No cruise, and that's probably (hopefully) the car thinking I'm on the brakes.
But the clutch safety works.

Realize it's off topic, but the turbo sounds awesome with about 2 feet of 2.5" downpipe (and nothing else for now). Would like to keep as much turbin-osity and eliminate as much of the tractor factor from the exhaust note as possible (Aero Turbine muffler/resonator? Cherry bomb?). Reading the threads but would like suggestions via PM if you guys have any to offer.

my vote is for no resonators or mufflers... it doesn't resonate in the cabin when you drive on the highway

So we've got the following working:
Clutch cancel

And the following not working:
Cruise
Reverse lights

And an unintended side effect:
brake lights are on.

Let me start with cruise... check (IIRC) block 4 or block 6 (can't remember) there should be a binary number for your cruise function, if you step on the brakes, you should have the 1's turn to 0's or vice versa (can't remember which... lol) and if you hit different cruise buttons it should change the value as well... see if the first bit changes with the clutch depressed (should be a 1 and change to a 0 IIRC)

If that works, then we've got the cruise pedal up and running.

The reverse lights are literally voltage to the switch and the switch leads to the reverse lights. inside the 175 relay that's the blue/black wire, we're looking for the wire that comes from the old TR sensor that leads to the 175 relay so we can jump between these two...
make sure you've got +12 at the switch, and if you jump the connector that the reverse lights go on... if that's the case then you've got a bad switch... if not, you've got incorrectly configured wiring... possibly turning on the brake lights?

let me know, and I'll see if I can keep an internet connection ready for later tonight.

A_Shifter said:

Post 113 by chirorob.
Exactly the same color combination I have.

GdB's wiring instructions say that post 99.5 models will have a grey & red wire instead of this yellow & blue wire. Mine is an '02 with a yellow & blue wire instead. Thing that concerns me is that, under the dash, as per instructions, I spliced the grey & red wire (terminal#3) with the black & blue wire (termninal #4). Wondering if I should have used the yellow and blue wire (terminal #9 (which was supposed to be a yellow & green wire)) instead?
I hope I'm not the first to run into this.

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This is pertinient to the reverse lights. (Post 1056 has a pic for reference)

My range connector looked EXACTLY like chirorob's: exact colors in exactly the same places, not just the two being spliced, mind you. So I figgered I'd be good to go doing what he did...Unfortunately, now that it no workie, I find that both of these (Black/Green and Yellow/Blue) are running 12V with the ign on, so I have power going to both sides of the switch at all times. Wonder where else there's power going that it's not supposed to? I don't think it's the brakes, because the ign does not have to be on for the brake lights to be on.

I did check the reverse switch, and there is continuity when in reverse only so it should be good.
So...since the Yellow/Blue wire is not correct, I have these to choose from;
Grey/Black, Brown, Purple/Black, Red/Yellow. The only one of these that was found on the 175 was Brown, and it went to the upper (grey) clutch switch (which is the Starter interlock, which is working correctly.)

Hope I didn't lose you, Alpha...

break out the continuity meter...

alphaseinor said:

my vote is for no resonators or mufflers... it doesn't resonate in the cabin when you drive on the highway

So we've got the following working:
Clutch cancel

And the following not working:
Cruise
Reverse lights

And an unintended side effect:
brake lights are on.

Let me start with cruise... check (IIRC) block 4 or block 6 (can't remember) there should be a binary number for your cruise function, if you step on the brakes, you should have the 1's turn to 0's or vice versa (can't remember which... lol) and if you hit different cruise buttons it should change the value as well... see if the first bit changes with the clutch depressed (should be a 1 and change to a 0 IIRC)

If that works, then we've got the cruise pedal up and running.

The reverse lights are literally voltage to the switch and the switch leads to the reverse lights. inside the 175 relay that's the blue/black wire, we're looking for the wire that comes from the old TR sensor that leads to the 175 relay so we can jump between these two...
make sure you've got +12 at the switch, and if you jump the connector that the reverse lights go on... if that's the case then you've got a bad switch... if not, you've got incorrectly configured wiring... possibly turning on the brake lights?

let me know, and I'll see if I can keep an internet connection ready for later tonight.

Click to expand...

I broke these up since there are multiple issues.

Now for the cruise (which may fix itself once the constant brake light debacle clears up.)
I was able to recode the engine to 00002, but still have PRND321 on the dash.
I'm a rookie with VAG-COM, but here's what I did:
01 Engine> Advanced Blocks> checked both Cruise Control and Cruise System. Cruise Control had a binary code that changed with steering wheel inputs, and also when I plugged in/unplugged the brake switch, but no change with clutch pedal.

alphaseinor said:

break out the continuity meter...

Click to expand...

Got it.
And some light reading in the ol' Bentley.

A_Shifter said:

So...since the Yellow/Blue wire is not correct, I have these to choose from;
Grey/Black, Brown, Purple/Black, Red/Yellow. The only one of these that was found on the 175 was Brown, and it went to the upper (grey) clutch switch (which is the Starter interlock, which is working correctly.)

Click to expand...

Opened up old, cut TR switch wires (above) and ran power to each of them in hopes of seeing reverse lights, but alas, none.
Bentley schematics might as well be written in Mandarin. Anyone speak Mandarin?
Ich spreche weniger (schlechter) Deutsch, aber es hilft mich nicht.

Basic facts on Bentley schematics:
If you look at the Bentley, they have different schematics for different circuits.

if you follow a harness line, and it ends in a number, you need to look at the bottom of the bentley page for the line of numbers, go forward or backwards until you see the number and that's where that wire went.

You are looking for the cruise control pedal and brake pedal sensors (there's a few), can't remember the pedal designation right now... they start with F

oh and it's measuring block 6

Group 006 (test with ignition switch on)
Speed
Brake pedal monitor
Cruise control system
Cruise control system (indicates if activated, 0 = activated but switched off, 1 = activated, swtiched on, 255 = not activated)
Cruise control system left digit: Clutch switch closed (clutch not depressed) = 0, 1 = clutch depressed
Cruise control system middle digit: CC/DFI brake pedal switch open (brake pedal depressed) = 1, 0 = pedal not depressed
Cruise control system right digit: brake light switch depressed pedal = 1, not depressed = 0
Right cruise control system 6 digit display has a 1, left to right, when:
Clutch operated
Brake pedal operated
Resume speed operated on the switch
Acceleration operated on the switch
Cruise control and memory switched off
Cruise controll system switched on
from this page: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=26762

so, it should look something like this with clutch "in"
1000 00001

and with the clutch pedal "out"
1100 10001

with the brakes on
1011 01001

clutch out and brakes on
1111 11001

A_Shifter said:

Alpha: Just voted. Least I can do. Offer stands for lunch and cocktails if you ever get up this way.

Click to expand...

Gonna have to take you up on that offer some day...

Battery and airbox are back out, so I'm putting VAG COM and Cruise lower on the priority list unless you think I should do otherwise, Alpha...I just want to be able to drive it with legal lighting for now.

I think the problem lies with wiring, so I've retraced my steps with GdB's instructions, and thinking the color differences I mentioned near the beginning of the project are significant here (Steps 4, 6, 6a and 11). I wrote this in parallel with the steps in the instructions if you don't mind following along.

1. Pulled 175 relay
2. Pulled the socket
CRUISE CONTROL HOOKUP
3. Cut the GREEN/BLACK wire from pin #5 and connected it to the lower (BLACK) clutch switch.
4. There was no YELLOW/GREEN wire at pin #9, or anywhere else on the socket, but there WAS a YELLOW/BLUE wire at pin #9, so I treated it like it was the YELLOW/GREEN wire and connected it to the clutch switch. I now think this was a mistake.
5. Removed TCU & disconnected plug
6. Found (continuity check...) and CUT the same YELLOW/BLUE wire at the TCU connector.
6a. Found a YELLOW/RED wire on the TCU which had continuity with pin #19's YELLOW/RED wire. I cut it at the TCU side and connected it to the YELLOW/BLUE wire (which was supposed to be YELLOW/GREEN).
7. Removed ECU pin #19 and pin #66 and put pin #19 with the YELLOW/RED wire attached into the empty hole #66.
REVERSE LIGHTS
8. Cut the BLACK/BLUE wire (too damn close) at pin #4. (Repair described in post 1055)
9. Cut the GREY/RED wire from pin #3
10. Connected to the BLACK/BLUE wire.
11. Looked for but could not find the GREY/RED wire at the #8 pin on the TR plug. But I did find the YELLOW/BLUE wire which had continuity to both the 175 socket and the one at the TCU. I also found a picture of EXACTLY the same color wires from another successful swapper... so I connected the YELLOW/BLUE wire to > next step
12. The GREEN/BLACK wire which I then connected to the reverse switch which has since been tested and is deemed in working order.
STARTER INTERLOCK
13. Cut the BROWN wire from pin#7 at the 175 socket and connected it to the upper (GREY) clutch switch.
14. Connected the BLACK/BLUE wire at pin #4 on the 175 socket to the upper (GREY) clutch switch.
FINISH
15. Then I replaced the 175 relay with a 53 relay.
16. Then I recoded the ECU with VAG COM - replaced the 1 with a 2.

The YELLOW/BLUE has power when the key is on. So does the GREEN/BLACK wire, so that makes two wires with power going to the two pole reverse light switch. That's why I think there's a problem with the YELLOW/BLUE wire.

So here's what I'm left with on the 53 relay
Pin #87 has a heavy RED wire
Pin #86 has a BLACK/BLUE wire (that goes to the upper (GREY) clutch switch)
Pin #85 has two RED/BLACK wires
Pin #30 has a single RED wire

The specific VAG-COM info is appreciated and it will come in handy once I get the other stuff taken care of.

I'm sure I've posted this somewhere before... but I'll see if I can do this from memory...

Reverse switch
+12V --> switch --> 175 socket --> black blue wire --> lights

So on this we need to find a wire that goes to the 175 socket that has continuity to the old TR switch...


here's the most recent version of the wiring...
Connect Reverse lights
Cut the transmission range connector off of the wiring harness.
Use the Black/Green wire to one side of the reverse switch
Continuity check the Yellow/Blue or Grey/Red wire to the matching color on the Transmission range switch wiring.
Cut this wire at the 175 socket
Cut the Black/Blue wire with enough wire to spare a butt connection later for the clutch cancel switch and connect this wire to the yellow/blue or the grey/red wire in the previous steps
Connect the transmission range side of the Yellow/Blue or Grey/Red to the other side of the reverse switch.


Connect Clutch Cancel Switch

Cut the brown wire at the 175 relay and connect it to the Grey or White clutch pedal switch (on the top bracket)
Connect the other wire from the switch to the Black/Blue wire you cut for the reverse lights.


Connect Cruise

Cut the Green/Black wire from the backside of the 175 socket (should be pin 5, or the one directly in the middle of the socket) and connect it to the blue or black clutch pedal switch (the bottom one)
Cut the Grey/Red (yellow/green on 2000+ vehicles, Pin 9)
Check for continuity on the Grey/Red or Yellow/Green wires in the TCU connector to the grey/red or yellow/green on the 175 socket
Connect the Grey/Red or Yellow/Green wire on the 175 socket to the other side of the blue or black clutch pedal switch
Remove the TCU from the car
Pull apart the TCU connector
Disconnect the ECU harness and pull apart the large connector
There will be a yellow/red wire that has continuity with pin 19 in the ECU large connector. Cut this wire at the TCU
Connect the Yellow/Red wire in the TCU to the Grey/Red or Yellow/Green wire in the TCU.
Move the wire from ECU pin 19 to pin 66 (98 and 99 beetles and 99.5 jettas and golfs are pin 44 to pin 46 so verify the connector pin in your bentley before doing this).

alphaseinor said:

Reverse switch
+12V --> switch --> 175 socket --> black blue wire --> lights

Click to expand...

Did you mean black/green? Black/blue is under dash only on my car.
I have +12V going to both sides (black/green & yellow/blue) of my reverse switch. That can't be right.

alphaseinor said:

So on this we need to find a wire that goes to the 175 socket that has continuity to the old TR switch...

Click to expand...

That would be the Yellow/Blue wire.

alphaseinor said:

Connect Reverse lights
Cut the transmission range connector off of the wiring harness.
Use the Black/Green wire to one side of the reverse switch

Click to expand...

Done.

alphaseinor said:

Continuity check the Yellow/Blue or Grey/Red wire to the matching color on the Transmission range switch wiring.

Click to expand...

Yellow/Blue wire has continuity to 175 socket.
Note: Yellow/Blue is supposed to only be on early models- 99.5 & up is supposed to be Grey/Red. My car is an '02, so it should be Grey/Red, but it doesn't exist on the TR harness.

alphaseinor said:

Cut this wire at the 175 socket

Click to expand...

Done, but under the dash, recall that what was supposed to have been a Yellow/Green wire at pin #9 was this same Yellow/Blue wire at pin #9, so according to the under dash instructions, I connected it to the (Black) Lower clutch switch.

alphaseinor said:

Cut the Black/Blue wire with enough wire to spare a butt connection later for the clutch cancel switch and connect this wire to the yellow/blue or the grey/red wire in the previous steps

Click to expand...

Now at the 175 socket, there is a Grey/Red wire (at pin #3 where it is supposed to be), and that's the one I connected to the Black/Blue wire. Question though: Do I connect the Black/Blue wire to the Grey/Red running to the socket, or to the now free-standing Grey/Red wire coming from under the dash?

alphaseinor said:

Connect the transmission range side of the Yellow/Blue or Grey/Red to the other side of the reverse switch.

Click to expand...

So on my car, wiring under the dash meets the description of post 99.5 models, with the exception of the color of the insulation on the Yellow/Green wire at pin#9 (which, in my case, is Yellow/Blue). But under the hood, it seems to meet 99.5 model description.
Does your head hurt too?

alphaseinor said:

Connect Clutch Cancel Switch
Cut the brown wire at the 175 relay and connect it to the Grey or White clutch pedal switch (on the top bracket)
Connect the other wire from the switch to the Black/Blue wire you cut for the reverse lights.

Click to expand...

Done.

alphaseinor said:

Connect Cruise
Cut the Green/Black wire from the backside of the 175 socket (should be pin 5, or the one directly in the middle of the socket) and connect it to the blue or black clutch pedal switch (the bottom one)

Click to expand...

Done.

alphaseinor said:

Cut the Grey/Red (yellow/green on 2000+ vehicles, Pin 9)

Click to expand...

Again: pin #9's wire is Yellow/Blue. I figured they ran out of Yellow/Green insulated wire, so no big. Wrong, I think.

alphaseinor said:

Check for continuity on the Grey/Red or Yellow/Green wires in the TCU connector to the grey/red or yellow/green on the 175 socket

Click to expand...

Yellow/Blue has continuity between TCU and 175 socket.

alphaseinor said:

Connect the Grey/Red or Yellow/Green wire on the 175 socket to the other side of the blue or black clutch pedal switch

Click to expand...

Yellow/Blue to Black clutch switch. Done.

alphaseinor said:

Remove the TCU from the car

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Is that critical? Wonder if this might be my problem? I plugged it back in to eliminate exposed wiring.

alphaseinor said:

Pull apart the TCU connector
Disconnect the ECU harness and pull apart the large connector
There will be a yellow/red wire that has continuity with pin 19 in the ECU large connector. Cut this wire at the TCU
Connect the Yellow/Red wire in the TCU to the Grey/Red or Yellow/Green wire in the TCU.

Click to expand...

Done. But again, Yellow/Blue in this case.

alphaseinor said:

Move the wire from ECU pin 19 to pin 66 (98 and 99 beetles and 99.5 jettas and golfs are pin 44 to pin 46 so verify the connector pin in your bentley before doing this).

Click to expand...

Done.
Back out to the car.

If you've got +12 going to both sides of the reverse switch, then you've got something wrong in the wiring. You need to get continuity with the 175 socket and a wire in the TR switch; This wire (regardeless of color) needs to connect to the black/blue wire you cut, not to the relay, but to the wire going into the rainbow spaghetti (harness).

The green/black line under the hood is a fused +12v, the other should lead directly to the reverse lights.

So, either you connected a +12v lead under the dash to the other side of the reverse switch wire, or the wire you connected is another fused +12v lead.

I'm imagining you've got a different color wire for the reverse lights for whatever reason, so right now the colors need to be abandoned with continuity only.

To check the reverse continuity, you will need to remove the bulbs for the reverse lights, or disconnect the connector to the bulb holder. there should be a blue black wire, this should have continuity to the blue black wire that was cut earlier. This wire under the dash needs to be connected to one side of the reverse switch... so we need to find a wire that was in the TR switch harness that goes to the 175 relay. then you connect that wire to the reverse switch and to the wire that has continuity to the reverse lights.

plug in the reverse lights again, and plug in the switch, attatch the battery, put the car in reverse key on and check.

I imagine this is where the main problem is, voltage going somewhere it shouldn't.

can you take a picture of your wiring so far? one of the reverse switch wiring, the wires that came off of the TR switch, the 175 relay and all of the other connections?

IIRC, there is a yellow/green and a yellow/blue wire at the TR switch or the 175, but only one of them is the correct one.

at this time ignore the brown wire, that's ground (and the other half of the clutch cancel switch).

alphaseinor said:

If you've got +12 going to both sides of the reverse switch, then you've got something wrong in the wiring.

Click to expand...

Yup.

alphaseinor said:

You need to get continuity with the 175 socket and a wire in the TR switch; This wire (regardeless of color) needs to connect to the black/blue wire you cut, not to the relay, but to the wire going into the rainbow spaghetti (harness).

Click to expand...

I'm going to go check again, but positive the Yellow/Blue (with +12V) was the only one at the TR that had continuity to the 175 socket. I'll get back to ya because one of those others HAS to, huh?

alphaseinor said:

The green/black line under the hood is a fused +12v, the other should lead directly to the reverse lights.

Click to expand...

Gotcha.

alphaseinor said:

So, either you connected a +12v lead under the dash to the other side of the reverse switch wire, or the wire you connected is another fused +12v lead.

Click to expand...

Yep: the Yellow/Blue one from pin #9 at the 175 socket.

alphaseinor said:

I'm imagining you've got a different color wire for the reverse lights for whatever reason, so right now the colors need to be abandoned with continuity only.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

alphaseinor said:

To check the reverse continuity, you will need to remove the bulbs for the reverse lights, or disconnect the connector to the bulb holder. there should be a blue black wire, this should have continuity to the blue black wire that was cut earlier. This wire under the dash needs to be connected to one side of the reverse switch... so we need to find a wire that was in the TR switch harness that goes to the 175 relay. then you connect that wire to the reverse switch and to the wire that has continuity to the reverse lights.
plug in the reverse lights again, and plug in the switch, attatch the battery, put the car in reverse key on and check.

Click to expand...

I'll get right on that.

alphaseinor said:

IIRC, there is a yellow/green and a yellow/blue wire at the TR switch or the 175, but only one of them is the correct one.

Click to expand...

Nope: On my car only a Yellow/Blue wire and it lived on pin #9.

alphaseinor said:

at this time ignore the brown wire, that's ground (and the other half of the clutch cancel switch).

Click to expand...

And luckily that's the one that works.
Pics coming soon.

Alpha, thanks a million for your time.

Can't wait for the update... hopefully we'll get this going this weekend (or tonight!)

A_Shifter said:

I'm going to go check again, but positive the Yellow/Blue (with +12V) was the only one at the TR that had continuity to the 175 socket. I'll get back to ya because one of those others HAS to, huh?

Click to expand...

ahem...I seem to have been mistaken....
The RED/YELLOW wire that lived on pin #1 of the 175 turned out to be my reverse light wire. So I'm a step closer because my reverse light work. Camera battery was dead and still charging, so I'll get you under dash pics, but I already buttoned up under the hood.

Brake lights still on at all times. Going back out with the tester.

what color is your brake switch?

alphaseinor said:

what color is your brake switch?

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It's a black vacuum vent switch with 4 pins.
Best I can tell there is always continuity between both end pins. The red wires that live on those pins have power at all times...dunno if they're supposed to but I'll bet only one of them is.
Downloading some pics of it within the hour. I'll have more info about continuity and wire combos within the hour.

I'm willing to bet you need the green switch... the one you have is a recall item.

alphaseinor said:

I'm willing to bet you need the green switch... the one you have is a recall item.

Click to expand...

Just call me Dips#!t. "Y'mean the brake switch recall I've been putting off for months?"
Yep. That problem's solved too.
Nice. So now just need to figure out the cruise control. Gonna review the wiring and hope it's all VAG-COM from there.

A_Shifter said:

...Camera battery was dead and still charging, so I'll get you under dash pics, but I already buttoned up under the hood.

Click to expand...

So here's what's going on at the back of the 175 socket.

Pins go like this:
321
654
987 - so you can see that pin 9 had the YELLOW/BLUE wire (stupid YELLOW/BLUE wire)
Next is the RED/GREY wire which lived on the #3 pin. As you can see, it is now an orphan, dangling in space. Is that OK?

Here is the correction to the reverse light wiring *on my car* - it was the RED/YELLOW wire that lived on pin #1 that needed to be spliced to the BLACK/BLUE wire.

And finally, here is the pic of the TCU connection: Notice the YELLOW/BLUE wire (that went to pin #9 on the 175 socket) connected to the YELLOW/RED that had continuity to pin #19 on the ECU.

I plan to rewrite the procedure *as it applied to my car* this weekend...After I fix the cruise and break in that clutch
Alpha, you're a saint.

CoolAirVw said:

Kennard bought the "bora" conversion kit. This was in the box.

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How's that going CoolAir?

Have you moved the pin on the ECU yet?

fold all orphans over 180* and heat shrink.

One tip on your camera, is to use the macro lens mode (some cameras it's a flower icon, some it's a M)

Alpha I voted for you!

I'm thinking of updating the electrical instructions word doc unless someone already did. I'm not sure.

I would add the vag-com Group 006test info. That's a real handy way to test if the wiring is good.

Any thoughts on improving the simple wiring instructions, for example wire colors?

Thanks for the vote on my instructables page!

Check out my google sites page, and the instructable, the instructions for wiring seem to be working quite well... the instructable has instructions from an '02 beetle, they use some different wire colors as well... so I'd put in something about continuity checking before crimping...

The 99.5 golf jetta and 98,99 beetles have a pin that needs to be moved from 44 to 46 on the ecu

The 3m butt connects are working great... they sell them at VW, but wal-mart has been the cheapest so far...

http://sites.google.com/site/tdiinnovations/Home/howtos/automatic-to-5-speed-swap