Jacking points

jasong70

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2010 Golf TDI
Hey Guys,

If you're not using the factory jack, what jacking points do you use? I resorted to using a hockey puck on the pinchweld where they recomend the factory jack, but wondering if there is a better spot. On my Volvo, I place the jack under the control arm, mostly due to it's height. Stumped on the VW...
 

fleuger99

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2012 Touareg TDI
jasong70 said:
Hey Guys,

If you're not using the factory jack, what jacking points do you use? I resorted to using a hockey puck on the pinchweld where they recomend the factory jack, but wondering if there is a better spot. On my Volvo, I place the jack under the control arm, mostly due to it's height. Stumped on the VW...
If you go to ECS and look up Jack Pad. It is like a hockey puck but made for your car.
 

20IndigoBlue02

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jasong70 said:
Hey Guys,

If you're not using the factory jack, what jacking points do you use? I resorted to using a hockey puck on the pinchweld where they recomend the factory jack, but wondering if there is a better spot. On my Volvo, I place the jack under the control arm, mostly due to it's height. Stumped on the VW...
jacking it up is one thing... putting it on jackstands is another issue.

For the front, I put the jack stand under the rear bushing for the control arm.

I haven't quite decided where to put the rear jackstand though...

P.S. Jack pads... remember, at dealerships, etc, where they use lifts, the weight of the car would distributed across 4 points. For home servicing, unless you have a lift in your garage (I know some people who do), you'll be severely stressing the floor pan because the weight is bearing on a single location when you jack up the car, unless you're using 4 hydraulic jacks, and slowly lift the car up using each jack incrementally.
 
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AlcoC420

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Great questions here. I was wondering the same thing for tire rotations and oil changes. Any new thoughts anyone?

I guess then that the (aluminum??) circular casting that holds the front control arm rear bushing is strong enough to put a jackstand under?

I'm uncertain about the rear too.

The factory jack that comes with the car has a curved profile to fit in the outer frame rail. It take it that the rail won't crush if lifted by a soft hockey puck insert in a floor jack? My floor jack is old-school with a 5-1/2" wide dish and no puck. Maybe I can find something that will fit inside it.
 

Ol'Rattler

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If I'm jacking just one corner, I put a piece of old carpet on my floor jack to protect the paint and use the pinch weld at the tire changing jack locations.

If I need to put the car on jack stands, the process I use is kind of involved.

I got the Audi jack pads from one of our vendors. What I do to put the car on stands is to use my floor jack to jack up one corner at the front and then I use an old bottle jack I have to support the car at the Audi jack point so I can get the floor jack out of the way to set a jack stand at the pinch weld.

I then go to the other side at the front and do the same process.

As a safety check, I will go back to the first side and lift that corner with the bottle jack to make sure the car is not putting a side load on that jack stand.

To set the rear jack stands, I use the floor jack at the hitch I installed to lift both sides of the rear at once.
 
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bgs02

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Richmond VA
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2011 JSW TDI Manual
I plan to pain my calipers soon. My thinking is to jack the car from the rear bushing for the control arm and then use the jack stand at the pinch weld. Then I'll use the factory jack to lift the rear wheel off the ground if it isn't already.
 

m_skena

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Not Any More!
A friend of mine was pulled by his neighbor out from under his car last spring. He was trapped by the frame, arms above his head. He lived, but it was a long road he was on. Since then, nothing but ramps for me. I know this is only good for a few things and you can't do much while on ramps, but I'd rather pay somebody for that stuff anyway.

A tip from a mechanic who I told the whole story to was to place a tire under the frame if you must jack the car.
 

specsalot

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Florida
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Great question. When I had to do the clutch on my 944, I bought 4 jacks that are basically bottle jack powered jack stands manufactured by Alltrade (link below)

http://www.alltradetools.com/catalog/560-640912-3-ton-all-in-one-bottle-jack-jack-stand.html

These units allowed me to lift the car enough to clear the transaxle out from under the car on a low profile tranny jack. A poor man's hoist for sure. Very Beefy. Paid ~ $35 / unit. You do have to work slowly and carefully to be sure you lift things evenly.
 
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Jack Frost

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Instead of using cardboard between the jacks and the pinch weld, I use cork. I don''t think that cardboard will protect the finish much. It is basically coarse brown paper and disintegrates easily under pressure.
 

amstel78

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In this image, the jack is under the rear subframe assembly. I assume Mk6 Golfs have this as well?



I plan on rotating my tires soon, and have thought about how to do this with only one floor jack and 2 jack stands. I figured I'd lift the rear and put the stands under the factory jack points. I'd then use the floor jack for each tire on the front; lift one front side enough to get the wheel/tire off and rotate the tires that way.

Any thoughts on my process or is there a better way of doing this?
 

sgoldste01

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Amstel,

Hmmm, intuitively to me, this jacking process you just described sounds dangerous. As you describe it, only one car tire (one of the front tires) would be on the ground at a time. Maybe I'm wrong, but this sounds dangerous, and also like it might put unusual twisting stress on the car's structure.

I'm no mechanic, and I'm no engineer, so I might be way off base. It just makes me nervous.
 

amstel78

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Amstel,

Hmmm, intuitively to me, this jacking process you just described sounds dangerous. As you describe it, only one car tire (one of the front tires) would be on the ground at a time. Maybe I'm wrong, but this sounds dangerous, and also like it might put unusual twisting stress on the car's structure.

I'm no mechanic, and I'm no engineer, so I might be way off base. It just makes me nervous.
Makes me nervous too, hence my question. :D

FWIW, the vehicle would only be lifted high enough to get the tires off. Only thing I'm worried about is if the rear is already on stands, and I start to lift one side of the front, that the weight transfer would cause the vehicle to come off or tip the jack stands. But then again, each front side would only come up maybe 2-3" at most?

EDIT: Nevermind... think I got something worked out. Here's what I'm going to do:

1. Lift rear and swap both rear tires side to side.
2. Drop rear
3. Lift each side and swap front tire with newly swapped rear tire.

That gives me a forward-cross rotation and doesn't need 4 jack stands.
 
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sgoldste01

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Just get two more jack stands, if you can afford it. It would make it a lot easier.
Be careful with this advice.

I just purchased two jack stands in preparation for the Panzer skid plate installation I did. So I just read the documentation for using the jack stands.

It clearly states that you should only use no more than two jack stands at a time, and it further states that you should only use the jack stands to lift the same axle (that is, both sides of the front of the car, or both sides of the rear of the car). The instructions warn against using the jack stands to, for example, lift both the front and rear of the passenger side of the car.

For what it's worth.

Steve
 

mojo

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1. Lift rear and swap both rear tires side to side.
Aren't these tires supposed to be rotated just front-to-back, not side-to-side?

I've heard do's and don'ts that say both but I think the Golf manual indicates front-to-back only.
 

sgoldste01

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You are correct in terms of what the manual says. But since the OEM Contis are non-directional tires, I ignore that advice and cross the rears when bringing them forward so that each tire can spend some time at each corner of the car.

My General Altimax Arctic winter tires are directional, so they stay on the same side of the car as described in the manual.

I wonder if the manual is written as it is so as to avoid this directional vs. non-directional tire issue. It's easier for VW to simply recommend keeping the tires on the same side of the car to avoid customer confusion and mistakes.
 

amstel78

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Aren't these tires supposed to be rotated just front-to-back, not side-to-side?

I've heard do's and don'ts that say both but I think the Golf manual indicates front-to-back only.
It's hard to describe without an image, but once the rears have been swapped side to side, the next step would be to swap the sides; front to back. This will result in a forward-cross rotation which is just fine for FWD vehicles.

I'm only doing it that way because I don't have 4 jack stands. You wouldn't have to swap the rears first if the whole car is up on stands.

Ultimately, image 'C' would be the end result:
 

whiplash willy

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Be careful with this advice.

I just purchased two jack stands in preparation for the Panzer skid plate installation I did. So I just read the documentation for using the jack stands.

It clearly states that you should only use no more than two jack stands at a time, and it further states that you should only use the jack stands to lift the same axle (that is, both sides of the front of the car, or both sides of the rear of the car). The instructions warn against using the jack stands to, for example, lift both the front and rear of the passenger side of the car.

For what it's worth.

Steve
If this is the case, how is it possible to get on 4 jackstands, or rotate the tires front to rear for that matter?
 

sgoldste01

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If this is the case, how is it possible to get on 4 jackstands, or rotate the tires front to rear for that matter?
Excellent question. The process of getting the car up concerns me. I mean, let's say you have the front of the car on two stands. So the car is level from left to right.

Next you start jacking up the passenger-side rear. So now the car is high in front, and high on the passenger-side rear. This bothers me. Since the frame of the car is rigid, is the car starting to tilt off one of the front jacks? If so, will the car settle back onto that front jack correctly when you start jacking up driver's side rear of the car?

It seems to me that the only safe way to get the car onto 4 jack stands is to jack up the front of the car as usual, and then jack up the rear of the car from the middle (as shown in one of my previous links), rather than jacking up one side and then the other. You could then put two jack stands under the rear of the car. To me, you would want to keep the rear of the car level (from left to right) as you raise it to avoid twisting stresses.
 

whiplash willy

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Yea, Jacking up the front, putting it on stands, then jacking up the rear, and putting it on stands is how I have always done it, the problem is our cars have a solid rear suspension, which is the only thing I can think of that you could use to jack up the rear, however it is a bad thing to jack on suspension pieces.....

In my quest of figuring out how to put a MK6 on Jack Stands, I came across this thread. Yes it is a Golf on a MK5 platform, but it offers a detailed process, that I wounder if it would work for our cars. The only problem is that it has you jack one side, put it on stands, then do the other:

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showpost.php?p=259147&postcount=12

What do you guys think? Why has nobody figured out how to put the MK6s safely on 4 jackstands? I have never had this much problem getting a car on stands...
 

sgoldste01

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In one of my posts earlier in this thread, I provided a link to another thread where the author showed that for the Golf MK5 or MK6 (and maybe earlier models, if they also had independent rear suspensions; I'm not familiar with them), he jacks up the rear from center of the subframe, which looks like a big, thick tube.

I was working on my MK6 last weekend and determined that what I think will be the best way to get all four wheels off the ground will be to end up with the car supported in **3** places, as follows:


  1. Jack up one side of the rear of the car until the rear subframe is high enough to get a support under it. Position the rear support (something bigger than a jack stand, to distribute the weight more) under the rear subframe, and then lower the car onto it. At this point, the rear wheels are off the ground, and the front wheels are both on the ground.
  2. Jack up one side of the front, and then position a jack stand under the front as shown in your linked procedure, using the half-round aluminum suspension point on that side. Lower the car onto the stand on that side.
  3. Repeat step 2 on the other side of the front.
At this point, the car is supported at three points, all of which are solid. I prefer these support points over the pinch welds.

To lower the car, reverse the above steps.

I might be trying this process this or next weekend, and will try to photograph the steps.
 

> Luke <

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Whiplash Willy: thank you for the photo insertions >

And Snobrdrdan:
Your photos and commentary are
invaluably appreciated. Truly--Thank YOU.
 

amstel78

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sgoldste01

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OK, here's my process for getting all four tires off the ground at the same time, which is useful for tire rotations, brake work, and so on:

  1. Chock the front tires.
  2. With all four tires still on the ground, loosen the lug nuts slightly.
  3. Jack up one side of the car using the rear pinch weld on that side. It doesn't matter which side you raise.
  4. Position a support under the rear sub-frame tube, being careful to position it in a way that the support won't hit the exhaust pipe or fuel tank when the car is lowered onto the support. I use a 6"x8" timber, that is 13" tall, because it's strong, and it distributes the weight of car across a large area. If I was acquiring a new timber, I'd probably make it 14" tall because my timber only barely gets the rear tires off the ground.


  5. With the rear of the car lowered onto the post, jack up one side of the front of the car, using the pinch weld. Raise the car high enough so that the front tire is a few inches off the ground.
  6. Position a jack stand beneath the aluminum sub-frame support, as shown. At this point, both tires on one side of the car should be in the air.


  7. Jack up and use a jack stand to support the other side of the front of the car. At this point, all four tires are in the air, and you can remove the wheels to do your tire rotation, brake work, or whatever.


When you're done with your job, lower the car in the reverse order by lowering the front of the car first, and then the rear of the car last.

What I like about this process is that the car is supported without using any of the pinch welds, which I think is a more solid way of supporting the car.

Opinions of this process?
 

TonyJetta

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Opinions of this process?
My concern is about the block of wood that supports the read subframe.

My process, when servicing the DSG:

  1. Using ramps, to support the rear, back the rear tires up the ramps
  2. Jack the front and support with jack stands in a similar fashion.
  3. Complete DSG service
  4. Lower front
  5. Drive off rear ramps.
That's a little over simplified.


My issue is that I haven't had too much need to raise the rear of my A5, so I haven't worked out all the details. I don't like raising the car by the rear lower control arms.


Tony
 

whitedog

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I'm sure you just posed that picture with the torque wrench used to loosen the bolts since torque wrenches should only be used to tighten.
 

sgoldste01

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TonyJetta, my objective was to document a process that would put all four tires in the air at the same time, which is useful when rotating tires, bleeding brake lines, other brake service, and probably other procedures I'm not thinking of. So the use of ramps wouldn't have accomplished my goal, although it would be fine if you're just trying to raise the back end without floating the rear tires in the air. I agree that supporting the weight of the car on the lower control arms is a bad idea, which is why I like my use of the subframe instead.

Whitedog, I do use my torque wrench to both remove and install my wheel lugs. I didn't know you're not supposed to loosen with a torque wrench. If that's true, I wonder why my torque wrench provides a loosen setting, as you would find on any socket wrench? Hmmm, I'll have to re-read the documentation that came with the wrench. Thanks for the heads-up.
 

whitedog

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Most torque wrenches use a stock ratchet head. it's a bit cheaper that way, I guess. My 1/2 inch Torque wrench is a one way ratchet.

I found this:

A Torque Wrench Should Never be Used to Loosen Fasteners
This one is the truth. You might argue that if a torque wrench can handle tightening bolts to 250 ft-lbs, it should be able to reliably handle loosening that same bolt. And this is true, but when it comes to loosening a fastener you don’t always know what’s going to be required to get it loose.

After several heat cycles and the accumulation of dirt and grime that can coat everything in a race car, a bolt can gall against the threads and require a lot more torque to remove than was required to originally install. Most of us don’t watch the torque when loosening bolts, so it’s quite possible to exceed the maximum torque loading of a wrench when breaking bolts loose. The wrench will still function in terms of tightening or loosening bolts, but by exceeding its maximum torque limit loosening that tight bolt may have thrown off the calibration.
 
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