Radiator puking it's guts....

Yesterday I put my stage 1 BFI dogbone inserts in and had to reprime the fuel system. (Its always something with these cars) Today on the way to work it's saying it wants water. Add some distiller water and keep going. Get to work and it's puking said water all over the ground. Only in the front passenger corner though....I think it's the radiator but I am wearing expensive dress clothes and wasn't ready to get them all dirty kneeling on the ground. According to these guys http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=370985 these radiators are especially prone to failure when the car is vibrating a lot (and boy is she vibrating! Waiting for the new inserts to break in)

My question is this what radiator should I buy to avoid this in the future? Or does it not matter with a new radiator? Mine is 277k miles old....if so what companies should I avoid and which ones have you guys had good luck with?

If there is already a thread on this please direct me towards it

I have never seen a mkiv radiator fail myself, have 525,000 kms on my car.. 500,000 on my wifes. They seem solid in the mk4's. I wouldn't over think it, just get a new OEM quality, 277 k miles is a lot of mileage on something that is under constant pressure all the time, susceptible to all the elements, and with road debris flinging at it all the time.

that other thread is about mk6's, they are questionable pieces of machinery ;-)

Mostly I agree with the above. I would just add that when you do get in a convenient situation (got the grubbies on, ready to deal with the problem) that you look over the plumbing. Maybe there's a radiator crack somewhere, and maybe it is a hose failure or a connection failure. They happen. On the up side, a thermostat housing is a lot cheaper than a radiator, and light years easier to replace. So maybe it isn't the radiator.

Good luck,

PH

steve6 said:

I have never seen a mkiv radiator fail myself, have 525,000 kms on my car.. 500,000 on my wifes. They seem solid in the mk4's. I wouldn't over think it, just get a new OEM quality, 277 k miles is a lot of mileage on something that is under constant pressure all the time, susceptible to all the elements, and with road debris flinging at it all the time.

that other thread is about mk6's, they are questionable pieces of machinery ;-)

Click to expand...

Mine failed from rust, started to leak at the bottom when the the metal crimp rotted away.

Powder Hound said:

Mostly I agree with the above. I would just add that when you do get in a convenient situation (got the grubbies on, ready to deal with the problem) that you look over the plumbing. Maybe there's a radiator crack somewhere, and maybe it is a hose failure or a connection failure. They happen. On the up side, a thermostat housing is a lot cheaper than a radiator, and light years easier to replace. So maybe it isn't the radiator.
Good luck,
PH

Click to expand...

Funny you should mention that. After some investigation I found that due to the horrible fan design where the outside circle of the fan also spins, I found that a outside of the fan had wore into a hose. It is the hose that runs from the coolant bottle down to the bottom of the compartment and then up to the front of the engine. If you look at the second post on this form http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=260911 its hose number 34. I'm hoping someone can help me identify this hose. I tried searching google but too many search results. Hoping someone here can help or at least point me in the correct direction so I can avoid going to the dealer

Mk4 radiators fail just as much as any other car, I've replaced mine and replaced a friends one as well today. They corrode at the edges or the plastic gets fatigued and it can leak around the fan switch.

Crusty whitish pink crud is usually a tell tale sign where it's coming from.

As for vibrations I doubt that very much. I mean really the rad is connected to the chassis so to speak as in it gets the same bumps etc as the rest of car and is designed for that, it has rubber mounts too.

Wear and tear most likely.

Couple of comments.

1. I find it hard to believe that new inserts (I'm assuming rod and/or main bearings) would cause the engine to vibrate.

2. Hose #34, per the link you provided, is the return hose from the bottom of the round coolant expansion tank. When the engine is running, coolant is always flowing through the hose from the expansion tank to the engine. It flows to a metal pipe at a T that goes into the water pump housing cast in the block up stream from the T-stat. That metal pipe also carries return coolant from the heater core, the oil filter housing (oil cooler/warmer) and the EGR heat exchanger.

Other than corrosion, I agree, those Rads are fairly robust!

EDIT: One more comment..... there's always the possibility that the impeller on the Water Pump shaft is slipping.......... if so, it will do it more as the engine gets up to operating temp.... generally a slipping impeller is plastic... Just a thought ! I've seen gassers (VWs) puke out the cap on the expansion tank and the culprit was the water pump impeller! ..... new water pump, no more puke!

AndyBees said:

Couple of comments.

1. I find it hard to believe that new inserts (I'm assuming rod and/or main bearings) would cause the engine to vibrate.

2. Hose #34, per the link you provided, is the return hose from the bottom of the round coolant expansion tank. When the engine is running, coolant is always flowing through the hose from the expansion tank to the engine. It flows to a metal pipe at a T that goes into the water pump housing cast in the block up stream from the T-stat. That metal pipe also carries return coolant from the heater core, the oil filter housing (oil cooler/warmer) and the EGR heat exchanger.

Other than corrosion, I agree, those Rads are fairly robust!

EDIT: One more comment..... there's always the possibility that the impeller on the Water Pump shaft is slipping.......... if so, it will do it more as the engine gets up to operating temp.... generally a slipping impeller is plastic... Just a thought ! I've seen gassers (VWs) puke out the cap on the expansion tank and the culprit was the water pump impeller! ..... new water pump, no more puke!

Click to expand...

Lemme put it this way I have a 2000 Ford F-250 7.3 Diesel stick shift that has had a LOT of work done to it (it actually makes my Jetta look slow) that we call "Rattletrap" and that truck shakes less and has less vibration noise than the Jetta with these BFI dogbone inserts haha Its supposed to get better after a week or two of driving just haven't been able to drive it due to this issue.

Apparently I was not clear in earlier posts. I have now determined that it is NOT the radiator that is leaking. The electric fan wore itself through a radiator hose.

Andy...are you sure the hose that goes on the bottom of the bottle is the return? Logically if I was going to design a system I would design the return on top and the feed on the bottom. That way it doesn't have to be 100% full to be able to feed. Also it is easier to dump fluid into a container rather than push it in...

I put one of these engines in my '84 Vanagon ...... there ain't much I don't know about the coolant circulation. ....... and, I used the round expansion tank in my set-up. In fact, my ALH engine is out of an '02 Jetta. Trust, me, it is a return as I described. See my signature about the ALH engine in my '84 Vanagon....

Yeah, I misinterpreted what you were saying about the inserts .... my bad!

This is the metal pipe I am talking about...

The end you are looking at in the foreground goes into the back of the Water Pump housing which is "cast" and milled into the block. The T off to the right is the "return" from the bottom of the round expansion tank.

The far end of the pipe has been modified for my Vanagon set-up.

I have a pressure gauge set-up on my tank. When I rev the engine at idle, suction by the Water Pump will cause the pressure to drop for a second or two........ very obvious how efficient the WP is.



Edit: Here is another view...



In the pic below, you can see the hose on the left coming out of the oil cooler. It is a "return" going to the metal pipe shown above. If you look close in those two pics of the metal pipe, you can see where the rubber return hose connects.



In the pic below, to the left of the yellow dip-stick tube, you can see the black metal piping pointing down... that is where the rubber "return" hose from the bottom of the expansion tank connects.



In the pic below, you can see the smaller hose at the top of the round expansion tank. Coolant flows "into" the tank there. This is in my Vanagon. You can barely see the return hose there below the larger rad hose.

AndyBees said:

This is the metal pipe I am talking about...

The end you are looking at in the foreground goes into the back of the Water Pump housing which is "cast" and milled into the block. The T off to the right is the "return" from the bottom of the round expansion tank.

The far end of the pipe has been modified for my Vanagon set-up.

I have a pressure gauge set-up on my tank. When I rev the engine at idle, suction by the Water Pump will cause the pressure to drop for a second or two........ very obvious how efficient the WP is.

Edit: Here is another view...

In the pic below, you can see the hose on the left coming out of the oil cooler. It is a "return" going to the metal pipe shown above. If you look close in those two pics of the metal pipe, you can see where the rubber return hose connects.

In the pic below, to the left of the yellow dip-stick tube, you can see the black metal piping pointing down... that is where the rubber "return" hose from the bottom of the expansion tank connects.

Click to expand...

That metal piece is in perfect shape for me. I need the rubber piece that goes from it to the coolant bottle....

Junk yard, dealer, or on-line

Go to this web site and look ... for this part #
1J0121109C

http://www.autohausaz.com

EDIT: Or try here www.partsgeek.com and search for this part number W0133-1736228 Then click on pic to enlarge ... that's the hose!

The missus needed the car tomorrow and not having time to wait I had to MacGyver something up. If anyone stumbles across this and needs help, the coolant hose that runs from the coolant reserve to the top of the radiator on a 1988 Jeep Comanche 4.0L is the correct size and length.

Eventually I'll probably end up buying the correct hose, but for now SHE LIVES! Thanks guys for helping me nail down that part #.

This is exactly what happened to me, but this thread is the only place I've seen in this forum about it happening. Are the two hoses that run right in front of the radiator fan usually tied back somehow?