Starting a TDI in Extremely Cold Weather

PlaneCrazy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
Although VW has made great strides in making the TDI suitable for very cold climates, the nature of a diesel is such that it will still need more cranking power to fire. Moreover, on the newer version of the TDI engine appearing in the '99 and later cars, there's no provision for an engine block heater. An oil pan heater has been available. However, experience shows that a TDI can be successfully started at temperatures at least as low as -35C without preheat, if some simple common-sense precautions are taken.

The key to a successful deep-cold start is to unload the engine of anything that could theoretically cause a reduction in available cranking power, be it electrical or mechanical. All electrical power should be dedicated to pre-heating with the glow plugs, and cranking the engine.

Those with an aviation background will understand the concept of using a checklist at startup, a common practice for starting up finicky aircraft engines.

Here is the recommended checklist for a TDI shutdown if a deep cold start is anticipated at next startup, followed by a checklist for startup:

Interior lights...........OFF
Radio.....................OFF
Heater/Fan/AC.............OFF
Heated seat controls......OFF
Handbrake.................ON
Headlight switch..........OFF
Engine....................SHUT DOWN

(pulling the handbrake ON ensures that the Daytime Running Lights remain off during the startup, this is VERY important)

Prior to starting, run through this checklist:

Interior lights............OFF
Radio......................OFF
Heater/fan/AC..............OFF
Heated seat controls.......OFF
Handbrake..................ON
Headlight switch...........OFF
Ignition key...............ON (do not attempt start yet)
Ignition key...............Cycle to OFF when when glow plug light extinguishes, then to ON again immediately
Ignition key...............count 5 seconds after glow plug light extinguishes then START until engine achieves sustained start
Engine.....................IDLE until even firing is achieved.

Once a smooth idle is achieved, you can drive off SLOWLY, driving very gently until the engine temperature gauge starts to rise.

These simple precautions should achieve a successful start after prolonged exposure at temeperatures down to about -40C, and should help protect the engine from abuse after a successful start. In addition, in areas where fuel quality is suspect, an anti-gelling additive in the fuel tank will help ensure successful cold weather operation.

[ April 04, 2001: Message edited by: PlaneCrazy ]

[ April 04, 2001: Message edited by: PlaneCrazy ]
 

think diesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2000
Location
Northern Virginia
Excellent advice. I agree that anyone who anticipates starting in cold weather should read this carefully and make certain they are following PlaneCrazy's advice to the letter before they report that they are having trouble starting the car.

I also might add that the majority of TDI drivers out there could benefit from the regular use of one of the popular fuel additives like Standadyne, Power Service or AMSoil's products. It doesn't take much extra effort to add these products periodically when you fill up and they can help keep fuel from gelling and prolong the life of the fuel system.
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
The other thing I've found that makes a very big difference is a plug-in battery warmer. It's a blanket that wraps around the battery with a small 60-watt heating element. Even at -20 C, with this installed my car cranks over as vigorously as it does above freezing.

C$25 at Canadian Tire, do-it-yourself installation is very easy.

Brian
 

MacGyver

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2000
Location
SW Ont, Canada
TDI
1997 Jetta, black
Run appropriate oil too. Like the Petro Canada 0W30 stuff. You don't wanna be trying to pump 15W40 dino around at -30*C in these engines...
 

fincoop

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2001
Location
Burlington, Ontario, Canada
The owner's manual says that conventional diesel fuel will work in the car down to -35C. A friend was saying that in Canada, additives are added to the fuel which reduces the mileage by 2-300 km per tank. These additives extend the gel factor to a lower temp. Can someone verify this?
 

PlaneCrazy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
I've operated my car down to -37C.

Yes in Canada fuel additives/cutting with no. 1 diesel are used to prevent gelling and yes, there's a mileage penalty.

My winter mileage is typically about 200 km less per tank than summer. However not all of that can be attributed to fuel. All cars lose mileage somewhat in winter due to winter tires, drag of driving on snow, cold weater, etc.
 

ZigZag

New member
Joined
Apr 7, 2001
Location
Vancouver
Nice work on the checklist ...

Too bad they never made a TDI Champ... or a TDI Cub perhaps.



[ April 07, 2001: Message edited by: ZigZag ]
 

ihatehybrids

Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Location
Spokane, WA
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI
he's got a good checklist

jus followed that procedure in -10 deg F a couple days ago (check the weather in spokane dam it was cold), and it worked excellent. Engine was, of course, rough from starting till 30 secs afterwards, but it smoothed out real nice after a minute for light driving. I always wait for the glow plug to go out, then i turn it over, but i tried the going to off then starting and maybe it was jus placebo, but it seemed to come to a smoother idle than my previous method.
 

jayb79

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 20, 2000
Location
Exeter,NH
Another thing to be thinking about when it is cranking over, do NOT stop cranking at the first sign of life, keep the starter motor engaged until the rpms are above 850 or so.
 

Jack Frost

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Location
Rural Manitoba
TDI
2009 Clean Diesel
As a cold weather driver (with some aviation experience) I can vouch for this checklist with the following comments:


  • The energy consuming settings should be turned off at shutdown as a shutdown procedure - not at start up. That makes the checklist a true checklist rather than a procedure that has to be carried out. After all, when it is cold and dark, it is too easy to skip the checklist and just start the car without turning off all those doo-dads.
  • Technically these days, having the radio turned off is not a big deal. It was in the old days when car radios had tubes but the energy that modern radios consume is miniscule. However, having the radio turned off as part of the checklist is important because it the principle counts. Also starting up a car and backing it out is very much an important safety related exercise and requires a little bit of concentration. It is simply not a good time to have the radio going even with a warm engine.
 

ss~zoso~ss

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Location
DE
TDI
2010-Jetta-TDI-DSG-Salsa Red
once the engine is running, would it be ok to start turning on some accessories? such as the heated seat and radio?
 

fossill

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Location
Canada
TDI
Golf
I've run mine routinely in termps of -47C with no problems running an additive. I also plug in using a frost heater. Lowest startup with a cold soaked engine was -35C without being plugged in. Lots of protest from the engine though.
 

scooperhsd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
Kansas City KS
TDI
NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
once the engine is running, would it be ok to start turning on some accessories? such as the heated seat and radio?
Not only ok - but it is a good idea to start loading the engine down so it will make heat faster.

Cold weather like that is actually one plus for the automatics over the manuals - the transmission contributes it's heat to the coolant as well.

Also have the correct oil in your car - no 15w40 Dino oil , you want that 0wX / 5wX synthetic oil.

One other thing - operation of heat / defrost - I almost never put my fan speed higher than 3 in the winter - and I use the recirc setting on the heater to keep the cold air out. In a Beetle - wait on the heat until the blue light goes out, I've heard on the Golfs / Jettas that you should wait until the guage is on the 3rd mark.
 

Jack Frost

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Location
Rural Manitoba
TDI
2009 Clean Diesel
One other thing - operation of heat / defrost - I almost never put my fan speed higher than 3 in the winter - and I use the recirc setting on the heater to keep the cold air out.
In a cold climate, this would cause the windows to fog. I leave my recirc off and the defroster on the windshield on the lowest setting. This circulates cold dry air from the outside up against your window so it doesn't fog up from your breath and the cup of coffee steaming away beside you. One can have it running on higher setting but this causes noise and blows cold air around the interior. I find the lowest setting is sufficient.

I also turn the cabin heat off entirely :eek: as this allows the engine to warm up faster (thank heavens for heated seats) :eek:

I sure wish that VW would offer heated steering wheels. I also find the heated seats dial difficult to operate with gloves on. If you are wearning mitts, forget it. :(
 

Buffy

Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Location
Vermont
TDI
VW Beetle
Great advice PlaneCrazy!! Thank you! I followed your check list and my car started.... I'm one happy camper!!!
 

supton

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 25, 2004
Location
Central NH (USA)
TDI
'04 Jetta Wagon GLS
My car was starting slow and hard lately. Decided to turn off seat heater while cranking--and was surprised that it did indeed help. I always assumed that they would turn off during cranking.

Won't say it fires right up but it does seem to crank faster and start easier.
 

Dave_D

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2003
Location
Gaithersburg, MD, USA
TDI
2015 Passat Titanium Beige six speed manual & Jetta, 1999.5, Tornado Red
I've gotten into the habit of turning my heater fan and radio off and waiting for the click when the glowplug relay cuts out before cranking in really cold weather. This leaves all of the battery amperage for the starter and avoids the chance of blowing the fuse in the back of the radio if your battery and starter are old.

Dave
 

belome

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Location
Mid MI
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS TDI 5-speed
Resurfacing a 14 year old thread, love this place.

The best thing is just to have a damned good battery.
 

Cogen Man

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Location
Kingston, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2011 Golf TDI DSG.
Great advise PlaneCrazy. An addition to your OP when first driving slowly till temp gauge starts rising. On my ScanGauge that usually happens at 125*F showing on the SGII. And all good threads are timeless.
 

meerschm

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Fairfax county VA
TDI
2009 Jetta wagon DSG 08/08 205k buyback 1/8/18; replaced with 2017 Golf Wagon 4mo 1.8l CXBB
Not sure there is a need to double-cycle the glow plug for common rail engines.

from the 2008 self study guide for the 2.0 L common rail TDI:

For quick start with an ambient temperature of less
than 64°F (18°C), a maximum voltage of 11.5 volts is
present during preheating. This ensures that the glow
plug heats up as quickly as possible (maximum two
seconds) to over 1832°F (1000°C), thus reducing the
preheating time of the engine.
 

Erics4er

New member
Joined
Feb 15, 2015
Location
Germany
TDI
2002 VW Golf TDI
Good advice, I was experimenting with turning the igition switch on twice like you mentioned. Have not tried waiting five seconds after the second time the glow plug light goes out, I'll try that tomorrow.
 

fruitcakesa

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Location
Vermont
TDI
04 jetta 5 spd wagon
I always count to five after the GP light goes out and it works as good or better than a double glow cycle.
 

lilkake2002

New member
Joined
Aug 10, 2013
Location
Lafayette, Tennessee
TDI
2000 Beetle 1.9L ALH (Auto..unfortunately)
Any help would be appreciated. I'm not very good at figuring out this site so maybe I can post what's happening and someone will be kind enough to help . Had the 2000 Beetle Gel twice on me so far. Once on Dec 23rd and then about two weeks ago. Temp was about 7 degrees F. Both times.
First time just diesel- no additive. Got about 35 miles then it died going down the road. Second time Power Service treatment (plenty strong) got about 40 miles and that was it. Car started coughing and cutting in and out- eventually stalled completely and both times resulted in a tow. Took days for the car to thaw with PS 911 in it. Sputter sputter and to the side of the highway. I need my car to be reliable and get me to work. My car has a block heater. Like I said, plenty of PS (white bottle) poured in it the second time and it still froze up and stalled. Really tired of calling a tow truck.
 
Last edited:

fruitcakesa

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Location
Vermont
TDI
04 jetta 5 spd wagon
Any help would be appreciated. I'm not very good at figuring out this site so maybe I can post what's happening and someone will be kind enough to help . Had the 2000 Beetle Gel twice on me so far. Once on Dec 23rd and then about two weeks ago. Temp was about 7 degrees F. Both times.
First time just diesel- no additive. Got about 35 miles then it died going down the road. Second time Power Service treatment (plenty strong) got about 40 miles and that was it. Car started coughing and cutting in and out- eventually stalled completely and both times resulted in a tow. Took days for the car to thaw with PS 911 in it. Sputter sputter and to the side of the highway. I need my car to be reliable and get me to work. My car has a block heater. Like I said, plenty of PS (white bottle) poured in it the second time and it still froze up and stalled. Really tired of calling a tow truck.
The in-tank fuel sending unit on early Mk4's have a check valve that will clog with ice and other crap.
The fix is to remove the unit and drill out the valve.
There is a how to somewhere on the site.
 

ugenetoo

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Location
north maine
TDI
Two 03 wagons one 03 sedan All manual TDIs
You need to get a better mix of fuel for cold weather.
Develop a relationship with your fuel stop, if possible, or find one you can trust when asking about their winter mix.
If that's not possible, find a source for on road kerosene and make sure to have at least a 25K/75D mix from 32 down to 10 degrees F.
Higher K mix as it gets colder.
Don't try to depend on additives.
Many are snake oil.
A very small amount of methanol (1 oz.) added every so often will keep any water in the tank in a fluid condition so it won't clog the lines or filter where it collects.
Change that filter more frequently in the winter also.

Any help would be appreciated. I'm not very good at figuring out this site so maybe I can post what's happening and someone will be kind enough to help . Had the 2000 Beetle Gel twice on me so far. Once on Dec 23rd and then about two weeks ago. Temp was about 7 degrees F. Both times.
First time just diesel- no additive. Got about 35 miles then it died going down the road. Second time Power Service treatment (plenty strong) got about 40 miles and that was it. Car started coughing and cutting in and out- eventually stalled completely and both times resulted in a tow. Took days for the car to thaw with PS 911 in it. Sputter sputter and to the side of the highway. I need my car to be reliable and get me to work. My car has a block heater. Like I said, plenty of PS (white bottle) poured in it the second time and it still froze up and stalled. Really tired of calling a tow truck.
 

scooperhsd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
Kansas City KS
TDI
NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
The usual -
#1 - find a station with lots of diesel traffic, and use it regularly during late fall - early spring. A station with lots of turnover will have better treated fuel, with less water likely.

#2 - Find a good additive - I like PS white when I decide that I need some, but anything that lowers the gell point is a good thing

#3 - I'll bet your problems are more of ICING rather than gelling. The common points to look for this are the fuel sending unit in the tank and your fuel filter. If you dig into the old posts, there are 2 solutions for the fuel sender - #1 is to drill out , #2 is to replace it with the "H" model that comes pre-drilled out. The answer on the fuel filter is to replace it in the fall and drain the water out of the system. You may even want to drain the fuel filter during the winter a couple of times (and if you're finding significant water - its past time to find a better source of fuel).
 

n1das

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
Location
Nashua, NH, USA
TDI
2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
I always count to five after the GP light goes out and it works as good or better than a double glow cycle.
Regarding cycling the key to get another glow cycle, there's no need to do this on 2002 and newer TDIs. Your 5-count method is much better. IIRC, TDIs prior to 2002 (not sure about 2001) had a mechanical relay for the GPs and you could hear it click when the GPs turn on or off. The GPs would turn off the instant the GP light goes out. These cars had a 2-wire GP harness. In these cars you were better off to hit the starter the instant the GP light goes out or do a double glow cycle.

2002 and newer TDIs have a 4-wire GP harness and use a solid state relay. IIRC, this was a mid-year 2001 change for 2002 going forward. With a solid state relay you won't hear any click since there are no moving parts. The GP relay is located under the cowling below the windshield instead of under the dash, so you wouldn't hear it even if it did click. IIRC, in TDIs having the 4-wire GP harness and solid state GP relay, the ECU keeps GPs on for several seconds after the GP light goes off, so no need to cycle the key to get longer glow time. This is where your 5-count method works better than a double glow cycle.

One trick I found worked well in my 02 Golf TDI years ago was to keep the interior lights ON and watch them dim slightly during the preglow time and then watch for the lights to brighten up again when the GPs finally turn off. This persists for several seconds (~ 5-10 seconds) after the GP light goes off. I hit the starter the instant I see the interior lights brighten up, knowing the GPs just turned off and are still fully hot. This reduces the load on the battery during cranking since the GPs are OFF. If you crank it the instant the GP light turns off instead of waiting longer, you have the starter load PLUS the GP load on the battery and it won't crank as well. In extreme cold I found it was better to watch and wait for the GPs to finally turn OFF before hitting the starter. Watching the interior lights dim slightly and then brighten up afterwards was an easy way to tell. I never had any cold start issues with my 02 Golf but I found it cranked better in extreme cold by paying attention and waiting for the GPs to finally turn off.

I thought about installing a "real" GP light wired to the GP circuit to visually know for sure when the GPs are actually on or not. The "real" GP light would also be useful for seeing when any afterglow happens to help with warmup following a cold start in extreme cold. I thought about doing the mod but never bothered. Watching the interior lights dim and then brighten up afterwards worked well.

In my BMW diesels, I only have a START button and the ECU handles the rest. When the ECU determines some pre-glow is needed, it pauses up to about 2 seconds before cranking the engine. I've only had them do this when temps are around 0F or colder. When the ECU wants preglow, the instrument cluster displays a GP symbol (coil) and a message "Preheating, please wait..." and then it cranks and starts right up. It's a little different than my TDIs years ago but it works well.

Good luck.
 
Last edited:

Dimitri16V

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Location
DE
TDI
01 Golf, 04 Golf
For the record , the cut off relay will shut off any accessories when cranking
 

brentfett32

New member
Joined
Jul 30, 2016
Location
Iowa
TDI
2005.5 Jetta 1.9L
Although VW has made great strides in making the TDI suitable for very cold climates, the nature of a diesel is such that it will still need more cranking power to fire. Moreover, on the newer version of the TDI engine appearing in the '99 and later cars, there's no provision for an engine block heater. An oil pan heater has been available. However, experience shows that a TDI can be successfully started at temperatures at least as low as -35C without preheat, if some simple common-sense precautions are taken.

The key to a successful deep-cold start is to unload the engine of anything that could theoretically cause a reduction in available cranking power, be it electrical or mechanical. All electrical power should be dedicated to pre-heating with the glow plugs, and cranking the engine.

Those with an aviation background will understand the concept of using a checklist at startup, a common practice for starting up finicky aircraft engines.

Here is the recommended checklist for a TDI shutdown if a deep cold start is anticipated at next startup, followed by a checklist for startup:

Interior lights...........OFF
Radio.....................OFF
Heater/Fan/AC.............OFF
Heated seat controls......OFF
Handbrake.................ON
Headlight switch..........OFF
Engine....................SHUT DOWN

(pulling the handbrake ON ensures that the Daytime Running Lights remain off during the startup, this is VERY important)

Prior to starting, run through this checklist:

Interior lights............OFF
Radio......................OFF
Heater/fan/AC..............OFF
Heated seat controls.......OFF
Handbrake..................ON
Headlight switch...........OFF
Ignition key...............ON (do not attempt start yet)
Ignition key...............Cycle to OFF when when glow plug light extinguishes, then to ON again immediately
Ignition key...............count 5 seconds after glow plug light extinguishes then START until engine achieves sustained start
Engine.....................IDLE until even firing is achieved.

Once a smooth idle is achieved, you can drive off SLOWLY, driving very gently until the engine temperature gauge starts to rise.

These simple precautions should achieve a successful start after prolonged exposure at temeperatures down to about -40C, and should help protect the engine from abuse after a successful start. In addition, in areas where fuel quality is suspect, an anti-gelling additive in the fuel tank will help ensure successful cold weather operation.

[ April 04, 2001: Message edited by: PlaneCrazy ]

[ April 04, 2001: Message edited by: PlaneCrazy ]
Hi, very informative post. Would you recommend using a jumper pack when starting as an extra precaution for getting your TDI started? Or wait until you would need the extra boost from jumper pack?
Thanks
 
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