Which engine to run bio in ... ALH vs. BEW

Brian O'Dell

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Location
Seattle
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2005 GLS Wagon 5spd
Forgive me if this is the wrong forum but I'm just getting started in the vetting process of figuring out which Jetta wagon to buy. Based on what I've looked into I'm pretty sure it's going to be a 99-05 wagon.

Some of the members in another thread had different in put on ALH vs. BEW for running bio. Is there a short answer? If not what's the long one?

My local source is selling B100, B99.9 (is there a difference?) and B20.

Also there seems to be some opinions on what oil to use if you run Bio. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks,

Brian
 

Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
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Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
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2001 Jetta TDI
In theory, the optimum engine to run Bio in would be the ALH as the PD motors can be a bit fussy, but I may be wrong. The only issue could likely be the due to the swelling of the seals on the pump and the hoses. When Bio-D is no longer run the seals sometimes--not always--shrink and cause leakage unless Viton seals and Bio-D friendly hoses are used. Other than that, if the fuel is good and dry, and cheap, go for it.
 

atc98002

Veteran Member
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Nov 24, 2006
Location
Auburn WA
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SEL Premium (sold back), 2009 Jetta (sold back), 80 Rabbit diesel (long gone)
I believe the only real difference between B100 and B99.9 is a tax loophole, with the B99.9 getting a tax break. The engine will obviously never notice 0.1% D2.
 

Brian O'Dell

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Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Location
Seattle
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2005 GLS Wagon 5spd
Thanks Nevada and ATC,

I was under the impression that both the ALH and BEW were bio ready. No need to change any hoses, seals, etc. I have a basic understanding of the solvency issue with bio as far as changing the filter.

I understand that bio will cost more. I'm interested to kind out the change in mpg on bio between the ALH and BEW. I less concerned about a drop in mpg than I am with killing an engine.

I guess I need to know more about the engines.

Brian
 

Mako

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AMFPolo 1.4 TDI 100%Biodiesel, AHF Golf TDI 100% Biodiesel, AHF Golf TDI Wagon 100% Biodiesel, VW Syncro 3CT Kombi 100% Biodiesel, Corsa 1.7D 100% Biodiesel
ALH if you're not a 'hands on 'type owner. PD's are fine on bio but they suffer from other issues which are not bio related and can be a pain to deal with over a period of time. I'm aware of the PD's don't do bio and the high pressure / high temperature warnings but my own experience has been zero bio issues with my PD. Indeed VW documentation supports bio use in PD motors. http://www.pdfdrive.com/19-ltr-tdi-engine-with-pump-injection-system-volkswagen-e8034828.html
 

scottd

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Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Location
South East, PA
TDI
2005 Jetta Sedan 5spd, Platinum Gray
I've run Bio in my PD off and on for the last 10 years (currently have 152K). BD is hard to get in my area so I fill up 3 - 5gal cans. When I'm using it I run B5 - B20. The only issue I had was the return lines off the engine were cracked and weeping. I'm assuming it was from the BD.

I don't have any BD now but will be making a call soon. The guy I get it from (not on the forums) has a PD and runs 100% in the summer and cuts it with Kerosene in the winter. The only thing he has done was change out the lines with Viton ones.
 

jef@rosstech

Associate Ross-Tech Vendor , w/Business number
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knoxville
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2004 Dog hauling, wood towing, pinball stashing Jetta wagon
Bio diesel in of itself is fine for the PD. VW released a statement many moons about about the issue with bio diesel was along the methods of filtering it. Solids could pass through the car's fuel filter, and clog up the PD injectors. Where as the older ALH engine, the ports in the injectors were larger, so solids are way more likely to pass on through without issue.

I would guess that industrial scale produced bio is filtered better than your average home brew bio.
 

scottd

Veteran Member
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Location
South East, PA
TDI
2005 Jetta Sedan 5spd, Platinum Gray
The guy I get it from brews at home but he has a good setup. He has a water heater, wash tank, and holding tank. The BD is filtered before it gets pumped into my cans. I've never had an issue with his BD.
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
Biodiesel IS NOT suitable in a PD.

The reasons are the PD "Cooks" the Biodiesel at extreme pressure and extreme temperatures inside the Unit Injectors.

Fuel in a PD is superheated in some locations of the injector to as high as 800F.

Biodiesel breaks down rapidly at anything above 240F, this causes severe deposits, acids and corrosive formations that will DESTROY the internals of the Unit injector.

The ALH is more suitable since the injectors are not recirculating the fuel and superheating it inside the injector. The fuel passing thru the ALH injector has nearly 100% of the fuel passing thru it go to the cylinder.

DO NOT use Biodiesel in a PD engine, catastrophic damage to the injection system WILL occur.

Damage will be in the form of:
-Acid formation
-Deposits
-Varnish
-Pitting
-Erosion of high pressure sliding surfaces
-Nozzle hole erosioon
-Leaking of o-rings leading to flooding of the engine block with fuel
-Damage to the Solenoid control system on each injector
-Tandem Pump damage due to varnish and abrasion of the rotors

Non-Biodiesel injector next to a failed Biodiesel injector



Internals of the Failed injector:









 
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Brian O'Dell

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Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Location
Seattle
TDI
2005 GLS Wagon 5spd
Driveby,

Thanks! Are those pics from one of your engines? Have you run BIO in your 2000? You mentioned the ALH is more suitable for BIO. Does that mean there might be one that is MOST suitable?

Thank you very much for everyone's patience. If anybody thinks of any tips for running an ALH on B100 or B99.9 that haven't already been shared please fill me in.

Thanks again.

Brian
 

secklor

Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Location
Haverhill, Iowa
TDI
2004 VW Jetta TDI
I run bio in PD and I make my own biodiesel and have no issues. I know exactly how my fuel is made, the quality is excellant every time. The thing that kills the engines are glycerol, soap and water. If you keep your fuel free of all of that you will be fine every time. I've made thousands of gallons and driven thousands of miles and no issues.
 

Brian O'Dell

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Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Location
Seattle
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2005 GLS Wagon 5spd
Secklor,

Any advice for verification on absence of impurities in B100? I'm not going to be making my own, I'm buying it from a few local places. What kind of mileage have you been getting on your BEW using Bio? Thanks
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
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Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
I run bio in PD and I make my own biodiesel and have no issues. I know exactly how my fuel is made, the quality is excellant every time. The thing that kills the engines are glycerol, soap and water. If you keep your fuel free of all of that you will be fine every time. I've made thousands of gallons and driven thousands of miles and no issues.
Its not impurities but the FUEL BREAKING DOWN UNDER HEAT.

Biodiesel CANNOT be heated beyond 240F without breaking down into some really caustic residues that destroy the engine from the inside out.

This has nothing to do with how you prep the fuel, and EVERYTHING to do with the fuel NOT BEING COMPATIBLE with the engines characteristics.

Is that clear enough?

If not, heat your best batch of Biodiesel in a pan to 600F, and report back with whats left in the pan after the stuff cooks off... After you see that, you won't ever run that crap in your engine again.
 

vanbcguy

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Feb 22, 2013
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
'93 Passat - AHU mTDI with GTB1756VK
You mentioned the ALH is more suitable for BIO. Does that mean there might be one that is MOST suitable?
If you want to run bio in a VW diesel your best bet is an IDI like a 1.6TD or an AAZ. The prechamber design is a lot more suited to alternative fuels. Nozzles are comparatively cheap too.

Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk
 

Drivbiwire

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Joined
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Location
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TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
Driveby,

Thanks! Are those pics from one of your engines? Have you run BIO in your 2000? You mentioned the ALH is more suitable for BIO. Does that mean there might be one that is MOST suitable?

Thank you very much for everyone's patience. If anybody thinks of any tips for running an ALH on B100 or B99.9 that haven't already been shared please fill me in.

Thanks again.

Brian
B100 tears up the ALH injectors, the reason is the in the very tip of the nozzle and the heat generated there destroys the sealing face of the internal needle.

ALH nozzles (note the blueing, that temperature to cause that is 4 times the maximum limit for Biodiesel to NOT break down...)


Varnish forms and this ruins the sealing characteristic that is required to sequence the injector.

By the time you notice the smoking from the tailpipe, damage is already done.

I've recently updated our nozzle designed to incorporate a DLC coating at the contact face to improve the durability on sub-standard and un-approved fuels.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
Been running bio (99.9 is readily available locally) since 2001. The past two years in a PD 1.9 Jetta, prior to that in a 2.0 PD Passat, plus a list of others (1Z, ALH, AHU). Total bio miles is in the hundreds of thousands.

all without the need of a certified injector rebuilder (see above).
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
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Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
the injector pictures posted above are the worst application FUD to prove a point and are far from typical of bio use and may be damage from some other contaminants entirely.... (no one but the poster knows and keeps reposting the same images year after year after year....)
 

Mako

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Don't ignore what DBW writes as he really is a diesel injection specialist, however my own experience on PD motors is the opposite of what he states so I have no reservations about bio in a PD. Where DBW had me totally convinced is the case for not running 100% bio in CR motors. I know some run 100% in CR motors and also blends with no apparent problems.
Poor quality bio (poor conversion, water) are killers in any diesel system especially in PD and CR motors and I think this is the source of his bad PD injector reports.
 
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jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
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spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
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Don't ignore what DBW writes as he really is a diesel injection specialist, however my own experience on PD motors is the opposite of what he states so I have no reservations about bio in a PD. Where DBW had me totally convinced is the case for not running 100% bio in CR motors. I know some run 100% in CR motors and also blends with no apparent problems.
Poor quality bio (poor conversion, water) are killers in any diesel system especially in PD and CR motors and I think this is the source of his bad PD injector reports.
no one is ignoring what DBW says and i respect his knowledge and skill when it comes to rebuilding and calibrating injectors, however his unnatural bent against bio has him using the most fubarred examples to get his point across often citing examples that have nothing to do with the subject ... a particular broken airplane crankshaft comes to mind
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
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Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
oh, and the airfilter... once you break that seal on an mk4 air filter... you are doomed... hahhaha ;)

(especially if you put it in wrong)
 

secklor

Member
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Jun 22, 2013
Location
Haverhill, Iowa
TDI
2004 VW Jetta TDI
My mileage has dropped 10 to 15 percent compared to ULSD, but when I make it for about $.60 to $.70 a gallon I don't really care about that much of a difference and I pocket that money for my next batch which will be another 250 gallon batch so it pays for itself in the long run. My fuel bill for this past winter for my VW and my 6.5l diesel was about $600 dallors and that's over 500 gallons of fuel. I blended winter diesel with my biodesel for the winter how was everone else fuel bill. That's about about 700 miles a week for 12 weeks 40 to 44 mpg on the VW and 14 on the 6.5l. I try to take care of everything my self on the vehicles I can. My car has 182,000 miles on it and I had to replace the injectors in it before I started running biodiesel in it the were shot when I got the vehicle, relpaced the cam and my vehicle actually run better on biodiesel. I still have to change the fuel filters becuase I still cleaning the crude out of the fuel system from the petroleum fuel and I change it twice in the last five thousand miles since mixing the fuels for winter. Biodiesel is a solvent and a lubricator and know that winter is over and I'm running full biodiesel I'm cleaning my fuel system my fuel filter is needing changing so soon. I will answer any questions I can. I also had to change the filters in my 6.5l too.
 
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