Race Chip or other piggyback tune?

saucer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Location
Fayetteville, AR
TDI
2015 Passat SE
Haven't found much regarding this, but after a couple of weeks in my '15 Passat, I'm feeling like the fix has definitely impacted performance. I'm not used to driving a car this large (and haven't touched a DSG in over ten years) but can't imagine VW releasing a car that performs like this.

Back when I was researching the purchase, I found talk of a 3-5% decrease in HP and fuel economy from the VW de-tune, but in my hilly town, even "S" mode is feeling sluggish.

I'm desperate more power and quicker response, but considering the extended warranties bestowed upon us by VW (and my dealership) I'm realllllly hesitant to buy a permanent ECU flash.

Has anyone in here tried a piggyback module? Neuspeed has pretty good reviews regarding their Power Module on other VW platforms, but doesn't seem to make one for the 2.0TDI.

I'm still waiting to hear back from Race Chip, but it looks like they should have the NMS covered (fingers crossed).

EDIT: Anyone have experience with this VCDS mod? https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8988673-Throttle-Mod-Direct-Acceleration-Tweak
 
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740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
I've done the throttle response mod on my Alltrack, and Golf MQB TDI owners have reported success and improvements, but thats MQB.

I haven't tried on our Passat, its a mix of Mk5 cluster, MK7 ECU, who knows what for the ABS.

As for a piggy back, they are more popular in UK and not really much info or first hand experience in the US. Big thing to be aware of is the UK and Euro spec cars don't get the exact same engine/ECU as we have.

The Neusped and JB1/4 units used on the Mk7 TSIs do work well but bear in mind, the number of sensors on the newer TSI engine are a pittance compared to the NA TDI. No MAF, no EGTs, they have a TMAP and that's about it. The ECU simulates tons of parameters of the engine that the TDI gets real live data from. So it takes a lot less to fake the ECU into producing more power.

I think one guy in the US did report installing one, search in the Power Enhancement folder.
 

Jetta_Pilot

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Location
West Hill, Ont.
TDI
2015 Passat Highline TDI Candy White (SEL Premium) long gone 2002 Jetta TDI
Spend the money and get a proper tune from Malone Stage 2 or from Kerma. Pay the extra and buy the Flashzilla tool that lets you remove the Stage 2 and revert back to OEM if you have to take the car to the dealer for some major work. Then after you get the car back re-install the Stage 2.


What you are talking about is a "Tuning box" and all it does is fool the ECU but it is not the same as a real tune! You can bu those on eBay for peanuts. If I remember right there was/is a way of doing it yourself by adding a resistor, that's really all a tuning box is. Don't ask me the value or where it might go.
 
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saucer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Location
Fayetteville, AR
TDI
2015 Passat SE
Spend the money and get a proper tune from Malone Stage 2 or from Kerma. Pay the extra and buy the Flashzilla tool that lets you remove the Stage 2 and revert back to OEM if you have to take the car to the dealer for some major work. Then after you get the car back re-install the Stage 2.
Awesome, I was not aware of the Flashzilla, that allows for a flash-from-home!

I'm a little confused about the stages though. There does not appear to be a Stage 1/Flashzilla combo for sale; is this why you've recommended Stage 2? I feel like that's overkill for this chassis, especially if someone like me isn't considering any hardware mods...
 

Owain@malonetuning

Associate Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Location
Vancouver
TDI
PD jetta wagon
It's designed around stock components with reliability in mind, delete files are slightly different. DSG tuning helps a bit too for bottom end spool since these files are close to the limits of stock transmission software, isn't required though. Worst case we can just dial it back a hair, all of our tunes are customizable. Agreed on not having other ea288 files listed, been too busy the last year to do much marketing or change the front end of the site around much to be honest, will get to it :)
 
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jrm

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2013
Location
Oregon
TDI
2013 Passat SE with nav (totaled)
Owain, pm me, if had it with my fixed 13's lack of response. Already been rear ended and had to pay $1200 for them not to total the car when a light turned green as we were slowing down, the car fell flat on its face and a guy in a chev truck ate my A$$ Im ready for a flashzilla and order 2 tunes, one for the stock exhaust and one deleted for after parts fall off in mexico
 
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740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Quite frankly what you described is more a DSG issue than a tune issue, (although I'm sure the tune didn't help). If your slowing down the DSG downshifts as you slow down, if you stop on it to accelerate at the green light, it's gotta spin up that lower gear then engage it, which takes time before the power can be applied.

If the car was in manual mode this would have prob been a moot point
 

Jetta_Pilot

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Location
West Hill, Ont.
TDI
2015 Passat Highline TDI Candy White (SEL Premium) long gone 2002 Jetta TDI
There does not appear to be a Stage 1/Flashzilla combo for sale; .

There is NO combo for sale. Stage 2 is the most popular. You buy each separately, the Tune and the Flashzilla !!!
 

Swinging Steel

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Location
Newtown, CT
TDI
'13 Sportwagen 6M, '15 Passat 6M
I have a few questions...

Is it possible to tune 2 different cars with one flashzilla? We have a fixed 2013 sportwagen tdi and a fixed 2015 Passat tdi.. both manual transmissions. I'm really interested in storing the stock tunes for when they both go in for warranty service, but I'm not crazy about buying 2 flashzilla devices.

Is it possible/recommended to retain all stock exhaust components with this tuning? Ideally I would like not to spend time and money taking out a dpf if it's not necessary.... Especially with warranty issues that are almost sure to happen.

How do these tunes affect the way (in the case of the Passat) DEF is used?
What about dpf and egr functionality? Has anyone running these tunes run into issues with any after treatment components? Does tuning compromise service life of these components at all?
 

Jetta_Pilot

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Location
West Hill, Ont.
TDI
2015 Passat Highline TDI Candy White (SEL Premium) long gone 2002 Jetta TDI
Swinging Steel
To the best of my knowledge the Flashzilla (Consumer version) only stores one file, i.e you remove the OEM and install the tuned file.


With a Stage 2 tune you do not have to change any other components on the car.
In my opinion, anyone who goes for a Stage 1 or 1.5 sooner or later will want the Stage 2, so do it right off the bat. Look at it this way, unless you are a total idiot who has a real bad lead foot you will or can damage components of the car. You will have better pickup and passing power and uphill power/torque which should mean the tranny shifts to a lower gear later.


You can do the DSG tune for improvements such as NO LAG from a dead stop ! Malone Tuning says the DSG tune is not necessary but it adds nice improvements. But the lag is something which affects any car which uses a DSG type transmission. Other manufacturers may have a different name but the tranny works the same way.
Here is a link to explain how a DSG tranny works:
 

Swinging Steel

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Location
Newtown, CT
TDI
'13 Sportwagen 6M, '15 Passat 6M
Swinging Steel
With a Stage 2 tune you do not have to change any other components on the car.
In my opinion, anyone who goes for a Stage 1 or 1.5 sooner or later will want the Stage 2, so do it right off the bat. Look at it this way, unless you are a total idiot who has a real bad lead foot you will or can damage components of the car. You will have better pickup and passing power and uphill power/torque which should mean the tranny shifts to a lower gear later.
You can do the DSG tune for improvements such as NO LAG from a dead stop ! Malone Tuning says the DSG tune is not necessary but it adds nice improvements. But the lag is something which affects any car which uses a DSG type transmission. Other manufacturers may have a different name but the tranny works the same way.
Here is a link to explain how a DSG tranny works:
Why would I elect for a DSG tune if there is no DSG on either car? :confused:
Also, I'm aware of the potential for the egt to skyrocket. There was another thread I was reading about tuners not properly setting egt warning limits, and some ppl who have the aforementioned "real bad lead foot" were having problems. Wife and I are not the type of highway track drivers that would make this a concern....but I am wondering what others have experienced as far as dpf/egr/adblue longevity/functionality (good/bad or indifferent) after driving a tune for X miles.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong... to tune both of these rides I'll need to buy 2 flashzillas? Too bad. I really liked the idea of tuning both cars.
 

Swinging Steel

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Location
Newtown, CT
TDI
'13 Sportwagen 6M, '15 Passat 6M
....would a VCDS cable help with my situation? Any way it could negate a flashzilla all together?
 

Owain@malonetuning

Associate Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Location
Vancouver
TDI
PD jetta wagon
....would a VCDS cable help with my situation? Any way it could negate a flashzilla all together?
VCDS is a diagnostic tool and can't write full tunes/module updates. Since you own two VWs, it would be well worth buying. Even if your cars are dealer maintained, intend to be left stock, and are under warranty. We've been spoiled with a great resource for our cars, understanding how to use this tool is more valuable than knowing how to change a tire and will save you from potential headaches and expenses in the long run.

The handheld tuners do not allow you to flash the pre-fix software onto the vehicle. VW has moved around several maps, and since the ECU software is different, the device does not recognize the ECU as the same. All files are made up specific to the ECU software currently on the ECU, if the base software on the ECU changes, then the modified files won't work and the tool will have to be erased and a new read made. They only work on one vehicle at a time.

All of our tunes automatically account for altitude and stock limiters like oil, coolant, and EGT limiters, are kept intact, most of the main diesel tuners are the same. We do have a full dyno, smoke opacity machine etc. The main killer of DPFs seems to be short city driving and excessive light use, diesels need to be driven hard every now and again to help keep things clean, having a tune seems to help if anything. Under normal driving conditions tuned cars should behave like oem if not better.

Feel free to contact us directly if you have any questions

Cheers,
Owain
 
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Swinging Steel

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Location
Newtown, CT
TDI
'13 Sportwagen 6M, '15 Passat 6M
Right. I saw the value of VCDS back in '09 while I had my one ALH. What I meant to ask was 'is there anything a vcds cable can do that a flashzilla or qloader can't do?'
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Right. I saw the value of VCDS back in '09 while I had my one ALH. What I meant to ask was 'is there anything a vcds cable can do that a flashzilla or qloader can't do?'

Program the windows to roll down with the key fob!!!!

If you are hard up on spending the money on the flashzilla, look at Local Malone dealers, they should offer flashing at their sites, they also may charge you a dealer fee for their time though.
 

Jetta_Pilot

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Location
West Hill, Ont.
TDI
2015 Passat Highline TDI Candy White (SEL Premium) long gone 2002 Jetta TDI
If you are hard up on spending the money on the flashzilla, look at Local Malone dealers, they should offer flashing at their sites, they also may charge you a dealer fee for their time though.

Considering that even a small shop now charges a small fortune for their hourly charge, the FlashZilla pays for itself.

When I took my car in for the Phase 2 to VW, I uninstalled my Stage 2 tune. VW had to redo the ECU to accomodate the new emission sensor. Then when I got the car back, Malone had to re-tweak the Stage 2 file I so I could re-install it. So I figure that those 2 instances made up for the cost of the FlashZilla tool.
 

BroncoAZ

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
TDI
2015 Touareg Lux, 2015 Passat 6MT, 2009 Jetta (long gone), 2011 Touareg (bought back 02/18)
I asked a VW master tech about options for improving my 2015 Passat post fix. He told me there isn’t anything worth doing that VW can’t see and black flag the warranty for. He said that each time the vehicle is serviced at VW they plug it in to connect to VW, VW can compare the number of times the ECU has been flashed according to their system to the number of times the car ECM reports it has been flashed. If the numbers don’t match it’s goodbye warranty. If this information isn’t accurate I wouldn’t know, I have a work relationship to the dealer and that was the answer I received when asked.

It seems like the workaround would be to get a second ECM to tune and swap them before service, I’m not sure if this would cause other issues.
 
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Owain@malonetuning

Associate Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Location
Vancouver
TDI
PD jetta wagon
That's correct, their automated guided fault finding system can flag things and send it back to VWoA, it's all cloud based at this point I believe and individual dealerships have no control over it since they are supposed to do these scans as part of their procedure to get paid for warranty work. We've had customers not get detected that have good working relationships with the dealer, the fault counter should update when port flashing however so it should be detectable unless changing that data on the bench.

https://erwin.vw.com/erwin/showHome.do has some info and what methods techs are expected to take to inform customers their vehicles are modified and what steps to take to detect it (including inspecting the ecu physically to see if it's been opened). It's vw's main tech site and has basically all info for the last 20 years, worth hopping on and downloading a bunch of files for repairs etc ($35/day)

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7492 covers it fairly well too.
 
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