Third Gear on Six Speed Always Stumbles

ricks

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Location
False City, WA.
TDI
'10 Jetta Sportwagen
Even after the fix, when in third gear the car jerks a bit. It’s not major but annoying. Anyone experienced this and or have a fix? No other gears do this. Doesn’t matter if the car is hot or cold.
 
Last edited:

ksing44

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Location
Southeast PA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
My car stumbles with light throttle when there are changes in load, e.g., cresting a hill or going down hill. It does it in other gears but it's most obvious in 3rd gear. It's also a common complaint and it's been attributed to fueling changes by the ECM and determined to be normal operation for the car.

My car does not stumble under full/heavy load in 3rd gear. In fact, 3rd gear is amazingly strong and lots of fun. Bottom line, I'd say if your car only stumbles with a light load, then you're car is fine. If it stumbles during harder and steady acceleration, then you could have an issue.
 

ricks

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Location
False City, WA.
TDI
'10 Jetta Sportwagen
Light load only. If I really get on the throttle it goes away. A very bizarre normal indeed.
 

ksing44

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Location
Southeast PA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
It's my understanding that it has something to do with saving fuel. For example, the way coasting in gear uses less fuel than coasting in neutral. It seems the ECM shuts down the flow of fuel in some situations and it can result in a stumble.

My car does it at the same places on my normal drives everyday. It's very predictable and clearly related to changes in load, e.g., cresting a small rise in one case and after a turn where I then go down a small grade and only lightly use the throttle in another case. If I go blasting down the hill or blast over and down the crest of the hill, then there is no stumble. The problem then is I'll be doubling the speed limit or more. Yahoo!

I guess smooth would be nicer, but it doesn't really bother me anymore because I know my car is fine and doing what it's designed to do. I was just afraid something was wrong with my car when the car was new, but then I read about it and found out it was a normal thing. Some people say it doesn't happen in their cars, but I think maybe they just don't encounter the circumstances when it's most noticeable.

Good luck with your car!
 

piotrsko

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Location
Reno Nv
TDI
2013 Golf, 2000 F-250 (7.3)
if you are coasting in gear or decelerating, then there is no fuel applied as it is unnecessary. coasting in neutral means the fuel is required to keep the engine idling.

mine only stumbles when it is in regen and when i bring the clutch up too fast and rpm goes below 800 where it promptly dies. usually only does that when i'm in rush hour on a hill.
 

ttcheung

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Location
Sudbury, MA
TDI
2011 TDI Sportwagen 6MT
I am very glad I came across this post, as I thought it was an isolated issue. I have a KERMA TDI tune in my 2011 JSW 6MT, and the tuner and I have been going through iterations on the so-called stumble I experience during light load, most noticeably in third gear, at around 1400, 1700, and 2000rpm. At first, the symptoms were shuttering in acceleration, then his subsequent tunes have quelled the shudder to more of a quivering, similar to the effects of braking on warped rotors. I decided to go back to my original tune in the meantime, and one time noticed a SLIGHT quivering at 6th gear, 1400rpm, light load, up a hill. Kerma has briefly suggested a throttle motor that's going out, but again, i only felt this symptom once.

my $0.02
 

ksing44

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Location
Southeast PA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
I think I should add something I said in a different post that was related to changes after the fix (see quote below). In summary, fuel injections for emission control can also cause weird running behavior. You can see it if you monitor EGT, but won't know otherwise.

I think most of the reports about shudder and jerking have to do with more frequent fuel injection episodes to keep the car running cleaner. I can see it monitoring the EGT. When I feel a jerk or shudder, I glance over at the EGT, and sure enough there is a spike in temperature. Those spikes are clearly related to fuel being injected into the system. That behavior also explains why the mpg should be down compared to before the fix.
 

Zabel51

Active member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Location
Mississauga, Ont, Canada
TDI
2014 white GSW
I have a 2014 JSW that was fixed by VW and a week later I got a Malone Stage 2 tune. Initially I had a similar stumble in third gear, light throttle opening 1400 to 1800 rpm. I contacted Malone about the issue, but got no explanation. Nice to see I'm not the only crazy one. The good news is that 3,000 to 4,000 km later the effect has gone away. The tune on the other hand is very satisfying. :)
 

Thunder Chicken

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Location
Sioux Lookout, Ontario
TDI
2012 Golf Wagon
Wow I’m glad I found this thread! I started this one https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=485115
Maybe I used a poor choice in words but what everyone here is describing is exactly what I’m noticing as well. The stumbling makes a funny knocking noise to me at least. It is/ was very consearning to me, but I guess I’ll keep the power up and drive on!
Funny that it didn’t do it before the retune at all, only after....
 

Thunder Chicken

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Location
Sioux Lookout, Ontario
TDI
2012 Golf Wagon
I hate to be one of 'those guys' posting in numerous spots but.....
VCDS shows a jump in BTDC timing whenever i get the 'stumble'
Heres a snapshot from the log.
Time-RPM-BTDC
326.2 2139 -1.9
326.61 2139 0
327 2139 -0.6
327.4 2139 -0.9
327.77 2162 -1.9
328.16 2162 -1.6
328.81 2208 15.8
329.2 2231 1.2
329.6 2254 16.1
329.99 2300 5.3
330.38 2323 16.1
330.77 2346 9.9
331.17 2346 16.1
331.56 2369 16.4
331.94 2369 15.8
332.33 2346 16.4
332.72 2346 16.1
333.11 2346 16.1
333.5 2300 16.1
333.89 2277 16.1
334.29 2208 15.5
334.68 2185 14.6
335.05 2139 15.2
335.44 2093 15.2
335.83 2047 14.9
336.22 2024 14.9
336.6 1978 15.2
337 1955 15.2
337.39 1955 15.5
337.79 1955 8.7
338.17 1978 3.1
338.58 2001 2.2
338.97 2024 -1.6
I logged group 13, 23, and 01 if any of that data would be helpful to see whats going on.
Anyone else do and VCDS logs to compare?
 

KERMA

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 23, 2001
Location
here
TDI
99 beetle and 04 jetta
FYI this stumble is one of the things we fix with a tune
 
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