Hard Start / No Start - Is your intercooler frozen? Check Here!

El Dobro

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This is what I'm talking about in my previous post. The snorkel has two openings, one at the top left of the grill and one from the engine side. instead of removing the snorkel, just block off the intake on the grill side so the air only comes from the engine side.
 

frugality

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Spring Lake, Michigan
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none, 2016 GTI
This is what I'm talking about in my previous post. The snorkel has two openings, one at the top left of the grill and one from the engine side. instead of removing the snorkel, just block off the intake on the grill side so the air only comes from the engine side.
Funny....folks in cold regions often put pipe insulation in the slats of their grille in the wintertime. We may be doing a 'snorkel mod' in the wintertime as well.
 

itchytweed

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May 24, 2009
Location
Milwaukee, WI
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2010 Jetta TDI Sportwagen
This is what I'm talking about in my previous post. The snorkel has two openings, one at the top left of the grill and one from the engine side. instead of removing the snorkel, just block off the intake on the grill side so the air only comes from the engine side.
Well, the outside louvers can be blocked with a piece of shipping tape, or use the removable window seal tape as well. IIRC, the airbox is open to the front and to the rear and acts like a foreign object separator (rain / bugs / ...). Once the engine is warm and the radiator starts putting out heat, I wonder if the reverse may happen...instead of too cold air getting to the IC, now maybe air that is too warm may get there. Even though providing warmer air increases its ability to hold moisture, if the IC is cooling down past the dewpoint, condensation still could take place, unless the IC can't cool the air down that quickly. Also, nothing is being done about the moisture supply coming from the pre-IC EGR system (and probably can't because of the Ever Present A**hats (EPA).

Just thought of a possible benefit here...would the warmer air supply help with fuel mileage or would the IC be able to cool the air down far enough to kill that off.
 

itchytweed

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2010 Jetta TDI Sportwagen
Well, Happy New Year!

Now that our nice weather from yesterday (rain / dense fog / 50's) has been exchanged for weather in the 20's and dropping to the low teens, I think that I am going to do a VCDS recording run with the external airbox grille closed up and run a log on all the intake air variables that can be recorded. Then let the car cool off and do the same thing, over the same route and compaire numbers. May not prove jack but it is more info into the problem. Besides, it gets me out of the house...
 

flylow2

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2010 White Gold JSW TDI 6M (build date 23Feb10)
Forewarned and wanting to be forearmed my question is this: If I run into this problem where there is a hydrolock or near hydrolock condition, I know to suspect intercooler hose water/ice and water ingestion into the cylinder. Does it make sense to remove the glow plugs and crank to clear the water? I sure don't want to bend a connecting rod trying to force a rough start that is likely an intercooler ice/melt situation.
 

itchytweed

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2010 Jetta TDI Sportwagen
Well, Happy New Year!

Now that our nice weather from yesterday (rain / dense fog / 50's) has been exchanged for weather in the 20's and dropping to the low teens, I think that I am going to do a VCDS recording run with the external airbox grille closed up and run a log on all the intake air variables that can be recorded. Then let the car cool off and do the same thing, over the same route and compaire numbers. May not prove jack but it is more info into the problem. Besides, it gets me out of the house...
Well, blocking the outside air made no difference in the intake air temperature, as reported by VCDS with the car working. I was comparing the MFI reported temp to the VCDS report of intake air and they were just about the same. Blocking the forward intake grille with tape should have been the same as pulling the snorkeling from the airbox, as suggested in other posts. The only time I saw the air temp go up was in the garage after the run, sitting still and idling.

While thinking about it, because of the LPEGR moisture, you would have to keep the intercooler temp above the combined dewpoint somehow. Since there is no measurement of air dewpoint, this may be a tough nut to crack so it will be interesting to see how VW solves the issue.
 

Jack Frost

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Rural Manitoba
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2009 Clean Diesel
Since there is no measurement of air dewpoint, this may be a tough nut to crack so it will be interesting to see how VW solves the issue.
I think that VW should engineer a little flapper at the bottom of the cold side of the intercooler. Every once in a while, it could open and the pressure inside the intercooler would allow whatever liquid goo that accumulates there to blow out. Call it a "hankerchief" feature.:D
 

nhdoc

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Nashua, NH
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'01 GLS NB TDI 5 Speed
I have posted this on the MKV board too but some people don't monitor more than one:

Since we had temps in the 40's this morning I decided to have a look at the intercooler hoses on my '10 Jetta. It had about 1-2 tablespoons of what I would call emulsified oil in the passenger side hose and just a film on the driver's side. No real water to speak of which was a relief. I cleaned both hoses out.

I noticed that the metal sleeve fitting which attaches the hose to the IC was loose and wobbly on the driver's side while the passenger side snapped on much more firmly and was tight on the IC's pipe.

Both sides had the rubber seal seated in the ridge but I can't imagine the driver's side was making an air-tight pressure seal. In fact the driver's side had evidence of seepage of the oily residue at the outside on the bottom of the sleeve before I removed it while the passenger side was clean. Has anyone else observed a problem with the seal on that side of the IC or is mine special?
 
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El Dobro

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The seal on the driver's side of the IC is the same with mine. There's been less leakage since I removed and cleaned the seal before reinstalling everything.
 

nhdoc

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'01 GLS NB TDI 5 Speed
The seal on the driver's side of the IC is the same with mine. There's been less leakage since I removed and cleaned the seal before reinstalling everything.
Thanks. I also was more careful about aligning the hose so that it lined up as well as possible with the IC and therefore was less off-center which helped a little but it definitely has a different feel than on the passenger side.
 

itchytweed

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May 24, 2009
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Milwaukee, WI
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2010 Jetta TDI Sportwagen
I think that VW should engineer a little flapper at the bottom of the cold side of the intercooler. Every once in a while, it could open and the pressure inside the intercooler would allow whatever liquid goo that accumulates there to blow out. Call it a "hankerchief" feature.:D
I can see it now...

I get out of the car in the garage..."Gretchen, you have that odor about you again." (From the DPF doing its job...same odor as my self-cleaning oven makes during one of its cleaning cycles). Now, it can be "Gretchen, you left a pile for me. How quaint." Another scene that came to mind is when Col. Potter was given a horse in his office and he slid on a "road apple" and went down and me repeating the same. ;)
 

bustNfuel

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Sold: 13 Passat SEL TDI
I noticed that the metal sleeve fitting which attaches each hose to the IC was loose and wobbly on the driver's side while the passenger side snapped on much more firmly and was tight on the IC's pipe.

Both sides had the rubber seal seated in the ridge but I can't imagine the driver's side was making an air-tight pressure seal. In fact the driver's side had evidence of seepage of the oily residue at the outside on the bottom of the sleeve before I removed it while the passenger side was clean. Has anyone else observed a problem with the seal on that side of the IC or is mine special?
nhdoc, see my post, number 188, in this thread. I too found my driver's side clamp, the one with the wire snap ring, to be quite loose. And some oily residue leaking from the connection.
 

nhdoc

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'01 GLS NB TDI 5 Speed
nhdoc, see my post, number 188, in this thread. I too found my driver's side clamp, the one with the wire snap ring, to be quite loose. And some oily residue leaking from the connection.
Seems to be "typical" of our engines to have that particular connection be loose like that. I will probably try to make it better next time I have a reason to drop the belly pan. I had considered adding an o-ring around the IC tube where it tapers to meet the metal sleeve which would probably fix it and provide an air-tight seal.
 

GraniteRooster

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Upper Valley NH
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'12 JSW 6MT
Happy New Year

Well, blocking the outside air made no difference in the intake air temperature, as reported by VCDS with the car working. I was comparing the MFI reported temp to the VCDS report of intake air and they were just about the same. Blocking the forward intake grille with tape should have been the same as pulling the snorkeling from the airbox, as suggested in other posts. The only time I saw the air temp go up was in the garage after the run, sitting still and idling.

While thinking about it, because of the LPEGR moisture, you would have to keep the intercooler temp above the combined dewpoint somehow. Since there is no measurement of air dewpoint, this may be a tough nut to crack so it will be interesting to see how VW solves the issue.
Itchy - thanks for the report!! That is interesting info to have - I may just need to look into a VCDS for my shop.

And - Happy New Year to All - I am glad we are all making good sport of reverse engineering VW's car for them this New Year's morning :). Thanks for all the useful discussion.
 

El Dobro

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Seems to be "typical" of our engines to have that particular connection be loose like that. I will probably try to make it better next time I have a reason to drop the belly pan. I had considered adding an o-ring around the IC tube where it tapers to meet the metal sleeve which would probably fix it and provide an air-tight seal.
I've wondered if that's part of the seal design, where it closes when pressurized, then relaxes when the engines off to allow the oil mist to seep out. I would imagined the seal would have been spring loaded if that's not the case. The passenger side doesn't do that though, so maybe not. You just never know with VW.
 

nhdoc

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I've wondered if that's part of the seal design, where it closes when pressurized, then relaxes when the engines off to allow the oil mist to seep out. I would imagined the seal would have been spring loaded if that's not the case. The passenger side doesn't do that though, so maybe not. You just never know with VW.
You're giving them too much credit, IMHO. If they wanted to design a joint to seep oil it should be the other one, where the oil is always more plentiful.

Nope, I think they just maybe molded the IC pipe at the driver's side slightly smaller than the design spec. My gut tells me both sides were supposed to fit the same way, tight, like the passenger side. Next time I can throw a vernier caliper on them both to compare them.
 

tcp_ip_dude

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Cape Fear area, NC
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2010 Jetta TDI Sedan
I've wondered if that's part of the seal design, where it closes when pressurized, then relaxes when the engines off to allow the oil mist to seep out. I would imagined the seal would have been spring loaded if that's not the case. The passenger side doesn't do that though, so maybe not. You just never know with VW.
I kinda wondered the same thing. But it's sloppy and not very 'German engineering' like.
 

GraniteRooster

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Dec 15, 2010
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Upper Valley NH
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'12 JSW 6MT
Snot Rockets For The Win

I think that VW should engineer a little flapper at the bottom of the cold side of the intercooler. Every once in a while, it could open and the pressure inside the intercooler would allow whatever liquid goo that accumulates there to blow out. Call it a "hankerchief" feature.:D
Now, it can be "Gretchen, you left a pile for me. How quaint." Another scene that came to mind is when Col. Potter was given a horse in his office and he slid on a "road apple" and went down and me repeating the same. ;)
The flapper would do the trick, although you'd have to cycle it before cranking the engine to prevent hydrolocking from ice-melt water. So now we've got our cars periodically blowing "Snot Rockets" - a neat Mario Kart like entertainment feature that may cause you to lose the rear end next time you are throttled up in the twisties :D
 

UberVW_TDI

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Austin, TX
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2010 Golf Variant TDI
From my understaing, the new LP-EGR design is one of VW's methods of helping reduce NOx levels under certain load conditions.
BUT, if this ends up being the cause of the excessive water vapor which then freezes inside the intercooler in specific cold high humity conditions....I wonder how VW will fix this?
It probably won't be as simple as re-programing the ECU to keep the LP-EGR cooler valve shut in cold condtions, as that might allow NOx levels to be too high for 50 state Tier2Bin5 emissions. BUT an aftermarket tuner might provide this "mod"?? For off-road use only of course.
Hopefully VW will engineer a true fix for this.

 
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vw_leadfoot

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Apr 8, 2010
Location
GTA, Ontario
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2010 Golf TDI Wagen
Had the intercooler lines checked today...clean and dry.

This site is making too many people paranoid. Me included!

An aside, my Indy mechanic that only services VW and Audi has never seen a HPFP failure....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Fixmy59bug

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Las Vegas, NV
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2015 Passat TDI SE
If Vw were to purposely design the intercooler or one of the boost hoses to seep oil, there would be such a sh*tstorm that they would never get out of.

I am sure CARB would kick them out of California. I doubt the EPA would even certify the vehicles as fit for use in the US.

Purposely leaking oil onto the ground and into the water table?

Come on. Think about it.

(If you were joking or being sarcastic, You got me. My Sarcasmometer hasn't come back from the holiday shock it suffered)
 

TwoTone

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DMV
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Had the intercooler lines checked today...clean and dry.

This site is making too many people paranoid. Me included!

An aside, my Indy mechanic that only services VW and Audi has never seen a HPFP failure....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
People with cars under warranty don't get them towed to an indie shop. Think about it. Ask him again in a few years.
 

nhdoc

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'01 GLS NB TDI 5 Speed
Getting back to why the driver's side intercooler hose connection is looser than the passenger side - I have developed a theory. The driver's side is the inlet, or "hot side" of the IC. If you designed the inlet to be tight and raised the temperature of it 100 or more degrees it might expand too much and damage the metal sleeve so they probably designed it to be a little loose at ambient temps but when running it expands some to fit snugly. It's the only logical explanation as to why the hot side is looser than the cool side.
 

Lightflyer1

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Kind of like the SR-71 fuel tanks which leaked until they did a high speed run to raise the skin temperature of the fuel tanks, which then sealed themselves due to expansion.
 

ChuChu

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Mar 12, 2008
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Boston Area
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2010 Jetta Sedan
Kind of like the SR-71 fuel tanks which leaked until they did a high speed run to raise the skin temperature of the fuel tanks, which then sealed themselves due to expansion.
So all we have to do is drive mach 2 and we'll be all set.
 

Elfnmagik

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Sherman's Ashtray
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Currently De-Dub'd
Cleaned both side of mine yesterday. Driver side had a little oil and Passenger side had a bit about 1/8 cup green sludge.
 

bsalbrig

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Siler City, NC; Woodbridge, VA
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Was it green from algae?

I had my inter-cooler freeze up this weekend in NC....so it isn't just limited to the New-Englanders. What came out of mine was a light tan (like the color of oil and water mixed)
 

n1das

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2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
Was it green from algae?

I had my inter-cooler freeze up this weekend in NC....so it isn't just limited to the New-Englanders. What came out of mine was a light tan (like the color of oil and water mixed)
:eek::eek::eek:

Now you've got me paranoid with my 2010 JSW TDI. I was driving it like I stole it and haulin' arse up I-95 thru NC over the weekend from Cocoa Beach FL to home in NH. I didn't have any problems. Outside temps stayed above freezing until I got up into the New England states.

I think I may go to Home Depot tonight and get some foam pipe insulation to block off the IC.
 
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