Rough running 03 ALH and takes forever to start.

1gcrazy

Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Location
Colorado
TDI
TDI
Hey guys, I'm new to the TDI World but I actually build 2.7t's and DSM's for a living.
I picked up this rough running TDI and have done a lot of reading so far and I'm not sure where to start.
Here's what I have so far.

I have a Vagcom and here are the codes:
2 Faults Found:
17656 - Start of Injection Timing Regulation
P1248 - 35-10 - Control Deviation - Intermittent
17964 - Charge Pressure Control
P1556 - 35-10 - Negative Deviation - Intermittent
Readiness: 1 2 0 0

I just checked timing and it's saying, "timing is to far advanced to be graphed".

There is also a lot of air bubbles coming to the injection pump.

There is lots of white smoke on deceleration while in gear as well as when you start the car.
 
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jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Air leak indicated by the air bubbles going to the IP can make for long cranking poor starts when the car has been sitting for any length of time.
Get the timing dialed in and probably seriously consider doing the TB service. If you don't have ironclad documentation it was done at the proper interval and properly it needs to be replaced ASAP. Take no chances with it.
The other codes seem to indicate there may be some issue(s) with boost control. Sort out the other things first and clear the codes to see what comes back.
 
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1gcrazy

Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Location
Colorado
TDI
TDI
When I pulled timing with vcds, as soon as I clicked go with 000, it sputtered badly. Idle was hunting from 800-1000 and white smoke was coming out pretty good. It looked like I was seafoaming a gas engine. Not sure if yall sea foam the tdi's... Anywho, the change in the motor kind of freaked me out. Wasn't sure if I could do any damage or not by letting it idle while I fumbled aroubd with Vagcom so I rushed through it.
I did click the model with the ALH but not sure if I clicked the correct one since I saw two. Like I said, was in a hurry but I figured since the engine code was the same it wouldn't matter too much. I did try both and got the same result. Maybe I'll retry later tonight.
 

terrydtdi

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2006
Location
Charleston S.C.
TDI
2000 MK4 TDI Jetta 5spd
When I pulled timing with vcds, as soon as I clicked go with 000, it sputtered badly. Idle was hunting from 800-1000 and white smoke was coming out pretty good. It looked like I was seafoaming a gas engine. Not sure if yall sea foam the tdi's... Anywho, the change in the motor kind of freaked me out. Wasn't sure if I could do any damage or not by letting it idle while I fumbled aroubd with Vagcom so I rushed through it.
I did click the model with the ALH but not sure if I clicked the correct one since I saw two. Like I said, was in a hurry but I figured since the engine code was the same it wouldn't matter too much. I did try both and got the same result. Maybe I'll retry later tonight.
I believe you will want to select the second ALH option down. Since the timing is so far off and while your at it, do a good inspection on the TB components that you can see. One thing of importance is, there is a small metal tab on the back side of the tensioner, you might need a mirror, but check to make sure the tab on the back side of the tensioner is in the slot behind the tensioner. The belt should be very snug.
 

Alchemist

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Location
Lethbridge, Alberta
TDI
'04 ALH Golf
When you put the engine into basic settings, it chugged and sputtered because the computer was no longer trying to compensate for poor mechanical adjustment.

Check the timing with the lock down tools to be sure the mechanical part is right, then fine tune it using VCDS.

As soon as you get it running properly, change the timing belt system! Neglect here will bite hard and hurt a lot.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Yep. Get the timing sorted then look into the boost control deviation. Check that the turbo actuator moves freely when vacuum is applied. It should start moving at about 3-4 inches vacuum and hit the stop at 18 inches then hold there.
 

Curious Chris

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 11, 2001
Location
Pineview GA
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 RIP Rockford IL
And when the engine almost stalls when you go to Basic settings that is always a bad sign.

X2 on do not drive change timing belt.
 

UhOh

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Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
And when the engine almost stalls when you go to Basic settings that is always a bad sign.

X2 on do not drive change timing belt.
Can you elaborate on what is happening in this circumstance? I'm not familiar with VCDS (still waiting on funds to purchase).
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
When the engine is running, the computer has control over the timing. When you put it in Basic Settings, you take computer control away from the timing and it runs on mechanical timing. When the mechanical timing is set right, when you put it in Basic Settings, you don't hear the engine change because the timing is where it should be.
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
When the engine is running, the computer has control over the timing. When you put it in Basic Settings, you take computer control away from the timing and it runs on mechanical timing. When the mechanical timing is set right, when you put it in Basic Settings, you don't hear the engine change because the timing is where it should be.
And the reason the engine needs the mechanical (static) injection timing set correctly, even though it is computer controlled when running, is that during the starting process it relies on the mechanical timing up until it is running enough for the ECU to take over that duty. So it has to be set very closely to spec.
 
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