1.8t Oil Sludge Settlement

barshnik

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2013 Passat SE w/roof, nav
I got a letter from the District Court, Massachusetts indicating that VW had settled the long-standing issue of sludge / coking related damage to the 2001 - 2004 Passats with that engine.

My 2001 Passat died at 61k miles due to oil sludge build-up, all oil changes were either done at the dealer or myself with the proper oil. The dealer wanted 5k for the repair, and both them and VW denied any financial help. I had the engine rebuilt at a local independant for about 2.2k.

A little over 2 years ago I traded the Passat for my current JSW TDi and a boatload of cash. Of course, after getting hosed by VW on the Passat I swore I'd never buy another VW but repeated the error with the TDI, although it has been OK through 40k miles.

I threw out the paperwork for the repair as well as my correspondense trying to get VW to help with the cost of the rebuilt after giving the car away to the dealer as trade in. Damn.

I'll spend a little time on the web site to see if there is any way I might be able to recoup some cost for the rebuild.

The website is:
vwoilsludgesettlement.com

if anyone is interested. Any comments or help are welcome. How did VW manage to put this settlement off so long that most all who owned this piece 'o crap have long since unloaded it?

John F
 

Powder Hound

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...How did VW manage to put this settlement off so long that most all who owned this piece 'o crap have long since unloaded it?...
Two words: Corporate Lawyers. They delay delay delay any legal proceedings. That is how corporate lawyers work. Insurance company lawyers are really good at it.

On the flip side, VW did replace a large number of those engines, but IMO it appears that the replacements weren't any better at avoiding sludge.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The Audi deal is a little different, too. I think they extended the warranty in addition to what Volkswagen got.

I think keeping the oil topped off is critical on those engines.

I have never known one that had the proper oil, kept topped up, changed at 5k mile intervals, with a good filter, to have this issue... at least not to a degree that ever hurt the engine. And I am not aware of ANY dealers that EVER used the "proper" oil. They STILL don't. Ask them what 502.00 means, and you get that blank stare...
 
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barshnik

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Las Vegas, NV
TDI
2013 Passat SE w/roof, nav
And I am not aware of ANY dealers that EVER used the "proper" oil. They STILL don't. Ask them what 502.00 means, and you get that blank stare...
I just read the lawsuit, and that is precisely the crux of the complaint - VAG never specified the proper oil to use (502.00) to either the car owners or the dealers, so the wrong oil was used almost without exception.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
Agreed, and that is why the newer cars generally just have the proper VAG spec, and nothing else. And this is all in the manuals.

But again, do the dealers know? I know my one friend has a '98 Audi A4 with the AEB 1.8t engine, it has had Mobil1 0w40 (a VAG spec 502.00 oil) with Mann filters and it is still doing perfectly fine at 260k miles. I recently had to replace its timing chain and tensioner (it was leaking) and the valve cover insides looked very clean, the breather system is still working properly. Yet other AEBs and even the newer AWWs and AWMs I get in here have coked shut breather ports in the valve cover and the breather boxes are caked full of gunk, and I have long since lost track of how many oil pans I have dropped and replaced oil pump pickups on. The B segment cars got a double-whammy though, as they hold about .75L less oil than the A cars do, and that compounded the issue. This is why VAG released the TSB about using the larger spin-on oil filters from the older diesels on those cars, something many of us in the field had already been doing for years.

There have been other engines that have had similar type issues, most notably the Toyota 1MZ-FE and 5S-FE engines, as well as the 2.7L ChryCo DOHC V6. In almost every case that I have personal experience with, there was chronic oil consumption involved. When the oil gets low, it sludges up, period. So if you have an engine that is predisposed by design to use oil, and it never gets topped up, ever, repeatedly, then it starts to coke things up. Then it becomes a snowball effect, and gets worse and worse and worse, then gunks up the breather system which usually causes even WORSE oil consumption, and before you know it, the gunk starts blocking off oil pressure spots and tooefs the engine. :(

Problem is, even some of the newer engines, specifically the VAG 2.0t EA113-based engine (BPY code, etc.) have bad oil use issues as well. I have two customers, one is a 2007 GTI the other a 2008 Passat, that easily consume 6 to 7 liters of oil in the 10k period, and they have since new.
 
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jasonTDI

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6-7 liters!!!!!! Holy moly!
 

ruking

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2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
Long ago, (ok, I will cut the drama king crap out, 26 years ago, but that does approach a ...generation) I found out (the very hard way) NOT to buy an engine (of ANY oem's) that cook/cooked engine oil, aka sludge maker !!! Another to add is to get engines (like TDI's) that have an absolute minimum of 10,000 miles OCI's, sans the sludgemaking capabiity. Getting ever more daring, that same engine has the capacity to do even longer OCI's (proper oil of course) say 30,000 miles OCI's. So 9 years ago when faced with buying an 03 TDI (Jetta), research and scuttlebutt indicated the 1.8 T was a sludgemaker and the 2.0 used oil like an alcoholic in deep denial (Jetta's, Beetles etc) . I overcame the fact it was a VW and bought the 03 TDI 5 speed Jetta. I have been so far (152,000 miles) impressed. The good/bad thing is the history has been as exciting as watching paint dry.
 
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Mike in Anchorage

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2016 Touareg Lux, 2015 Golf Sportwagen SE, new 4 Sept 2017;2009 VW Jetta TDI Sportwagen (Ruby) sold to VW on 22 SEP 2017
My wife got the letter for her Audi A4 1.8T a couple of days ago. Warranty extended to 100k.
 

ARBY

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Location
Royal Oak, MI
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2011 Golf Sportwagen - really want a F-150.
I got a letter from the District Court, Massachusetts indicating that VW had settled the long-standing issue of sludge / coking related damage to the 2001 - 2004 Passats with that engine.

My 2001 Passat died at 61k miles due to oil sludge build-up, all oil changes were either done at the dealer or myself with the proper oil. The dealer wanted 5k for the repair, and both them and VW denied any financial help. I had the engine rebuilt at a local independant for about 2.2k.

A little over 2 years ago I traded the Passat for my current JSW TDi and a boatload of cash. Of course, after getting hosed by VW on the Passat I swore I'd never buy another VW but repeated the error with the TDI, although it has been OK through 40k miles.

I threw out the paperwork for the repair as well as my correspondense trying to get VW to help with the cost of the rebuilt after giving the car away to the dealer as trade in. Damn.

I'll spend a little time on the web site to see if there is any way I might be able to recoup some cost for the rebuild.

The website is:
vwoilsludgesettlement.com

if anyone is interested. Any comments or help are welcome. How did VW manage to put this settlement off so long that most all who owned this piece 'o crap have long since unloaded it?

John F
It seems like a pretty decent settlement for the class members. From what you've written above, there are a couple avenues for you to examine. First, having your documentation regarding your failed engine (forgive me for my ignorance of the exact nature of the sludge issue) and associated maintenance is, without a doubt, the optimal way to go. You'd make a claim per the procedures established after the fairness hearing and request damages as a class member as described in the Notice of Proposed Settlement (which you linked to in your original post). The only issue here is that you seem to have a unique damage scenario in that you sold the car prior to the proposed settlement, took a loss on the damaged vehicle and purchased a new car. In this instance, the type of damages being offered by the parties to the proposed class members really doesn't get to where you need to be. This brings me to your other alternative. You could, as a putative member of the class, file a formal objection to the proposed settlement, which basically states that you, as a member of the putative class object to the proposed settlement for X reasons (one of which is the very salient point that the damages for class members does not account for those class members that sold their cars and suffered the loss on the vehicle sale, rather than in costs associated with engine replacement). I don't have experience with this in MA state courts, but with some research (and help from a local attorney), you could successfully object to the proposed settlement and request to appear (either in person or via telephone) at the fairness hearing in March, 2011. In my experience, objectors to proposed class settlements with germane objections get the attention of class counsel for both parties and can garner other kinds of remedies not stated in the proposed settlement (i.e., blood money, essentially).

Hope this gives you some food for thought.
 

oilhammer

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Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
german engineering... :rolleyes:
Well, I should also add then that there are plenty of others that don't use any more than about 1-2 L in that same 10k miles, which is more along the lines of normality to me.

I have an 80,000 mile MR2 here getting an overhaul that was eating a quart every 200 miles... :eek: Far more 1ZZ-FEs come in here with massive oil use than anything VAG ever built. How's that Japanese engineering again? :p
 

vwmk4

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Location
ROCKPILE IL. USA
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None at this time, Looking for a nice one though.
My wife got the letter for her Audi A4 1.8T a couple of days ago. Warranty extended to 100k.
Got this also for my Audi A4 1.8T. That I sold 4 years ago. Now all I need to worry about is the MK4 GTI 1.8T. It's an AWP, and will be using the larger Diesel filter :cool:.
 

ruking

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Joined
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Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
Well, I should also add then that there are plenty of others that don't use any more than about 1-2 L in that same 10k miles, which is more along the lines of normality to me.

I have an 80,000 mile MR2 here getting an overhaul that was eating a quart every 200 miles... :eek: Far more 1ZZ-FEs come in here with massive oil use than anything VAG ever built. How's that Japanese engineering again? :p
Yes if I can add to that from the 03 TDI (aka GERMAN) experience. This engine uses app 1/4 (8 oz) to 1/2 qt of oil per 20,000 to 25,000 miles OCI. When I changed @ 30,700 miles, I was in a catch 22 situation. That number BALLONED up to a FULL 1/2 qt (16 oz). So now, it is/was a question of ADD or just change it !! @ 30,700 miles I .... just changed it.
 

barshnik

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
2013 Passat SE w/roof, nav
It seems like a pretty decent settlement for the class members. From what you've written above, there are a couple avenues for you to examine. First, having your documentation regarding your failed engine (forgive me for my ignorance of the exact nature of the sludge issue) and associated maintenance is, without a doubt, the optimal way to go. You'd make a claim per the procedures established after the fairness hearing and request damages as a class member as described in the Notice of Proposed Settlement (which you linked to in your original post). The only issue here is that you seem to have a unique damage scenario in that you sold the car prior to the proposed settlement, took a loss on the damaged vehicle and purchased a new car. In this instance, the type of damages being offered by the parties to the proposed class members really doesn't get to where you need to be. This brings me to your other alternative. You could, as a putative member of the class, file a formal objection to the proposed settlement, which basically states that you, as a member of the putative class object to the proposed settlement for X reasons (one of which is the very salient point that the damages for class members does not account for those class members that sold their cars and suffered the loss on the vehicle sale, rather than in costs associated with engine replacement). I don't have experience with this in MA state courts, but with some research (and help from a local attorney), you could successfully object to the proposed settlement and request to appear (either in person or via telephone) at the fairness hearing in March, 2011. In my experience, objectors to proposed class settlements with germane objections get the attention of class counsel for both parties and can garner other kinds of remedies not stated in the proposed settlement (i.e., blood money, essentially).

Hope this gives you some food for thought.
Yes, it does. I tried calling the contact today, but no luck, will try again next week to see if something like this might fly. Thanks,
 

Stealth TDI

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Feb 13, 1998
Location
Newport News, VA
TDI
2017 GTI APR Stage 3 (395 hp/376 lb-ft)
Hello,

I was on the verge of trying to decide between trading my Passat w/1.8T in on a new Jetta TDI or perhaps keeping it as a third car. Average trade for a car in its condition is about $3000-$3500. For the money, so long as the engine's in decent shape, I might be better off just keeping it. But now the wife (her car) has decided she wants to put what could be a new car payment into something for the house while waiting to see what bugs may pop up on the A6 Jetta (smart OL!).

I've been preimtively running a batch of AutoRX through the car for the past 3000 miles (car is at 81k). I'm about do an oil change for the "rinse cycle." I also need to replace the valve cover gasket. Who knew oil leaks into the spark plug wells when the gaskets begin to fail? :rolleyes: News to me! :eek: I'll look for signs of sludging when I pull the valve cover. I'll feel fortunate if everything up top looks clean. If it's NOT clean, then I guess I'll run a second AutoRX treatment and then consider a trade-in before it's time to dump money into a new timing belt/water pump. :( Would a clean head be a fair sign that the bottom of the engine is clean, too?

Thanks,

Scott
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I would NOT be using any "flushes" in those engines, that just finishes them off for good. Even if it has a little bit of gunk, it'll just bust it all loose and clog up the oil pickup for sure. The oil pickup on VAG engines is TINY. The opening is about the size of a nickel, and the screen inside is barely 2 inches across and is pretty fine. Couple that with the secondary screen that the cam phaser has that can also get clogged up (and cause the intake cam phaser to stick....and BOOM, bent intake valves!).

You cannot really tell how good or bad the engine is under the valve cover. But if you have properly cared for it since new, as I outlined above, I'd not worry too much about it.

Oh, and oil leaks into spark plug tubes are commonplace on DOHC engines... been that way for as long as there have been such animals. :)
 

barshnik

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Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
2013 Passat SE w/roof, nav
The oil pickup was completely clogged on my '01 Passat 1.8t when it required rebuilding at a hair under 60k miles. It threw a code for oil pressure, had it rebuilt right after that. With the engine rebuild, window motors all around, cheap vacuum lines cracking, O2 sensor problems, crank position sensor problems, and worn links, it was a very expensive car to own. I just missed recalls for everything thanks to VW's creative method of determining which VIN's were covered.

All that said, I really liked the Passat and would buy a used one if I could be certain the problem areas would be covered.
 

jasonTDI

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20' RAM 3500 CCLB dually HO/Aisan. 2019 Cherokee 2.0T
Hello,

I've been preemptively running a batch of AutoRX through the car for the past 3000 miles (car is at 81k). I'm about do an oil change for the "rinse cycle." I also need to replace the valve cover gasket. Who knew oil leaks into the spark plug wells when the gaskets begin to fail? :rolleyes: News to me! :eek: I'll look for signs of sludging when I pull the valve cover. I'll feel fortunate if everything up top looks clean. If it's NOT clean, then I guess I'll run a second AutoRX treatment and then consider a trade-in before it's time to dump money into a new timing belt/water pump. :( Would a clean head be a fair sign that the bottom of the engine is clean, too?

Thanks,

Scott
Scott, it will be. The auto RX will continue to strip for about 10K. You'll see it in the color of the oil. Sort of a reddish color and the oil will be dark like diesel oil. I did our 03' 325ixt right after I bought it due to unknown OCI. Also did the VC/Spark P gaskets. They were brittle and leaking.

You need to look at your EGR tubing under the intake manifold and around the back of the head. They crack and can cause all sorts of havoc and poor running. If they draw enough air, the system will fail and then other stuff will go. Eventually taking down the car to the point it won't run. Seen it.
 

jasonTDI

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O.H. The Auto RX is a reaaaaallllly slow cleaner. Not at all like the 10 minute flushes. I've used the product for 15 years and had really good luck with it.

It is a VERY good idea to change the oil filter at 1000 miles and again in 1500 miles just to be safe. I've only seen one REALLY bad Toyota almost plug a filter. But the VC looked like a wax mold. LOL! That car took about 20K to clean out and the owner did the filter every 500-1000 miles for 10K. That car now looks like a lightly used car inside. The first owner did OCI at 12-15K on dino 5/30 for 100K. It now has 325K on it.
 

oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
We use BG here, but I still don't recommend it on the 1.8t engines. Oh, and the 1.8t engine does not have an EGR valve. :p
 

Stealth TDI

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Whew!

Oh, and the 1.8t engine does not have an EGR valve. :p
THAT'S a relief. When I read his comment about the EGR, I thought "WHAT? I thought I only had ONE car with a self-destructing intake!" ;) Glad to hear I don't need to worry about it with the 1.8T.

Scott
 

oilhammer

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Location
outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
Whew!



THAT'S a relief. When I read his comment about the EGR, I thought "WHAT? I thought I only had ONE car with a self-destructing intake!" ;) Glad to hear I don't need to worry about it with the 1.8T.

Scott

Nope, you just have to worry about secondary air pumps, combi valves, about 15 one-way check valves, breather boxes, divertor valves, cam phasers, two chains, rando-fail ignition coils, and what I feel is a horse's ass arrangement for the timing belt tensioner. In addition to the oil problems, should they arise. :eek:
 

oilhammer

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Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Set for stun?
Hehe, once you see the price, yep! Actually, the 1.8t engines are not as bad, as they only have one. Now tell a Passat W8 owner he needs cam phasers and chains, and watch him hit the floor. :eek: Ever wonder why used W8 B5s can be had so cheap?
 

PlaneCrazy

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Province of Quebec, Canada
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Gone...
Problem is, even some of the newer engines, specifically the VAG 2.0t EA113-based engine (BPY code, etc.) have bad oil use issues as well. I have two customers, one is a 2007 GTI the other a 2008 Passat, that easily consume 6 to 7 liters of oil in the 10k period, and they have since new.
It's an undocumented feature, the new VW self-changing oil system. :rolleyes:

My BPY in my 2.0T consumes about 2 liters in 8000 km, I have to add about 1 liter mid-way between 8000 km oil changes. I'm actually starting to question why I do 8000 km oil changes (manual calls for 16k in "normal" conditions and 8k in "severe" service), as a considerable volume of the car's oil gets refreshed. I guess that works out to 4 liters in 10,000 miles, probably 2/3 of its oil. It's done so since new, no other issues with the engine. I have 140k km on the car now (87,000 miles). Still has lots of punch, never left me stranded (touch wood!).

Any advice Oilhammer, if I can extend my drains to 16k or should I stick with 8k?
 

oilhammer

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Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Seeings how you know how to use a dipstick, I'm wondering why you hadn't done 16k km intervals from the beginning? :p

How is the body of that car holding up? To me, they seem a little "crunchy" over bumps, especially in the cold. I am always somewhat ashamed of being a VW fan when I drive the B6 Passats, as they always feel so 'Nissan-y' to me. :(

I like the looks, and they have some nice features, I am just not sure they are constructed as sturdy as the B5s. The interior bits in particular.
 

jasonTDI

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The 2.8L V6 B5.5 uses a fair bit too. And no, it's not leaking from the VVT seal. About a QT every 2-2.5K.
 

PlaneCrazy

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Gone...
Seeings how you know how to use a dipstick, I'm wondering why you hadn't done 16k km intervals from the beginning? :p

How is the body of that car holding up? To me, they seem a little "crunchy" over bumps, especially in the cold. I am always somewhat ashamed of being a VW fan when I drive the B6 Passats, as they always feel so 'Nissan-y' to me. :(

I like the looks, and they have some nice features, I am just not sure they are constructed as sturdy as the B5s. The interior bits in particular.
Well according to the owner's manual, I constitute "severe service": I live on a dirt road and any trip requires driving 2 miles over a dusty road; and we get temperature extremes from -40 to +40C (well, not in the same day! :D). On the other hand I rarely do short trips; I'd say 90% of my driving is highway, and over 10 km. And usually when it is shorter than that (i.e. doing errands), the car is already in town, fully warmed up and with 10 km at least, behind it.

As far as the car goes, so far in 87k miles nothing has fallen off ;)

I agree the B5.5 seems sturdier and more substantial, but it also appears more costly to maintain especially the suspension. Moreover the B6 is far more agile, although I suspect the curb weights are fairly similar. The B6's electric steering counts for much of that. You can see areas in which they cheapened the B6; the interior plastics, the tailgate sill, the lower body cladding, loss of the cool small sun visor behind the rear view mirror (now replaced with more opaque shading on the glass), no fog lights on the base model (I added in OEM Euro fog lights and rear fog light myself), little things like that.

On the plus side, the MFD is dead-on accurate for fuel consumption and easier to read, the car is literally configurable with VCDS, handing is great for such a large car, cargo room is exceptional, ride is smooth and interior noises are no worse than in our B5.5, and the fuel economy difference between our B5.5 and B6 is almost trivial: on the highway, at 100 km/h, the B6 consumes 6.5 L/100 km and the B5.5, around 5.7 in summer; the gap widens a bit in winter. In summer, at current prices, the difference in fuel costs is less than a penny per km. Too bad the B5.5 didn't come with a manual, I'm sure it would do better against my manual B6 if it did.

Overall I prefer our B6 as a drive. Although today as my wife is away for the week, I'm using the B5.5; a change is as good as a new car!
 
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