ULSD station locations

karlthev

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Location
Ne Pa
TDI
2009
Well, lemme fess up and state that I fibbed (just a tad!:eek: ) when I signed up here. I don't CURRENTLY own a TDI but..but I am right on the edge of plunking down $15,000 deposit on one (I DO own two gas Jettas though if that counts for anything!:D ) but I have some residual concerns about fuel availability. Two days ago I drove a gas 5 speed and a TDI manual and that pretty much cinched the deal until I drove home and stopped into four local fuel ("gas") stations and none of them carried ULSD fuel!

I travel Pennsylvania (99%) and Eastern NJ and NY (Southern Pa border) and really don't want to find myself with a great little car but no fuel to be had. I've done some preliminary searching the Web for a nice, tidy data list (IDing locations where said ULSD fuel can be had) which I can keep in my new car-to-be but I sure didn't find one yet and, I'd like a bit of assist.

Am I a lousy Web surfer, does such a list not exist or, am I overly anal (Oh Lordy, let it not be this last possibility!)?:(

Tips, assurances and condolences all accepted with appreciative comments! Thanks.


Karl
 

Nutsnbolts

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Nov 1, 2001
Location
Weare, NH
TDI
2000 Jetta, Silver Arrow
Well, if you asked specifically for ULSD, then the gas station attendant may have given you a strange look. For what it's worth, all diesel fuel now available at any service station will be ULSD (except maybe the off-road fuel). That law became effective in September of 2007.

Did you have stations with diesel pumps, or were you looking specifically for signs saying ULSD?

-Rich
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Almost every station that sells diesel will be selling ULSD unless you're in the middle of bumble-eff-nowhere and buying off-road farm diesel.

ULSD is the new diesel. :rolleyes:
 

NateinAA

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Location
Saline, MI
TDI
None (yet)
Just remember LOW Sulfur and ULTRA LOW Sulfur aren't the same thing.

Before I "read up" on diesel I noticed the pumps at my usual gas station said LOW Sulfur and had a warning against using the fuel on >2007 MY cars. Couldn't figure that out till I relized the distinction and that the new cars use ULTRA LOW. It is a station out in a rural area, so I'm sure they have old diesel to keep their farm customers happy (LOTS of oil burner F-Series pickups).

Good luck with the TDI search Karl, I'm in the same boat!

-Nate
 

paramedick

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor
Joined
Jul 29, 2001
Location
Versailles, Kentucky
TDI
2015 Audi Q5 TDI
Nutsnbolts said:
Well, if you asked specifically for ULSD, then the gas station attendant may have given you a strange look. For what it's worth, all diesel fuel now available at any service station will be ULSD (except maybe the off-road fuel). That law became effective in September of 2007.-Rich
Nope. The local station that I have been purchasing ULSD from had a new LSD sticker up last time I was there. The sticker was posted about 8 foot up on a support column for the canopy, not the pump. They must have gotten a good deal on the LSD.


Bummer, as I'd just filled the 09. Not good.
 
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karlthev

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Location
Ne Pa
TDI
2009
To tell you the truth, not being a dyed-in-the-wool diesel afficianado, I wasn't looking for any specific signs indicating ULSD fuel so, it was pretty much a random, whatever station came up first stop in for me. Understand that not having to look for anything in terms of "specialized fuel" (to me that's everything but gas after driving gas cars for the past 41+ years!) I wasn't doing any kind of in-depth search save for a "I'll try this one next" approach.

Nah, I'm not located in the middle of a cornfield either, 100 miles from asphalt but again, not ever before having to look for a "gas" station which carries diesel (ULSD) this was new to me. I realize as well that with Federal mandates for distribiution of ULSD there is a wider distribution network than what I originally realized. I just gave the diesel consideration the other day and it was the first time I drove a diesel since I had the (mis)fortune of crusin' a Rabbit diesel 20 (?) or 25 years ago. The new Jetta was somewhat of an improvement I noticed.;)

I guess I'll find the stations I need but again, as I originally stated, having a lst of specific locations would ease my mind in my business travels--I don't have the luxury of looking for stations at 5 AM nor 6 PM when i am typically on the road. :cool:

By the by---thanks for the responses, appreciated!

Karl
 

Sip'n Diesel

Veteran Newbie
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Location
San Joaquin Valley, I have VCDS (KII-USB)
TDI
2003 ALH: 254,000 miles
look for these on the pump:

if local availability really is a problem, buy a used TDI (not an '09.) many pros and cons to doing that, however. I suspect availability isn't an issue in your area. it seems proper labeling isn't something gas stations take seriously, even though it's the law
 

karlthev

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Location
Ne Pa
TDI
2009
Continued thanks, most appreciated!! :D This place is a regular library of info on just what I need!



Karl
 

TopherDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Location
Stroudsburg, PA
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI
Not sure where you are at but I live in NEPA too. There are some stations, the one next to Schocks on Route 33 carries it and the price is pretty good, only thing is that it is Sunoco fuel which is rated a little low for cetane. Other than that I roll route 80 everyday through NJ, and there are plenty of stations. I use the shell station off of exit 25 (close to the Shoprite with an awesome liquor store and great beers) to get the lower price.

Also when I got my first TDI about a month ago i had the same apprehension, have realized when rolling on the highway the station sign indicate if the station has diesel, and more importantly with a 600 mile plus range you wont need to know where too many of these are!:D
 

Keith_J

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Location
West
TDI
2000 Jetta MT
The ULSD mandate in 2006 did not require 100% to be ULSD. But since most fuel is transported via pipeline to the local terminals and most terminals did NOT construct additional tankage for ULSD, there are terminals which did not convert. These are generally in areas where there are high demands for #2 fuel oil or like above, expempted equipment demands (marine, off-road, power generation).
 

PalosParked

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Location
Palos Park, IL
TDI
2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
I live in the Chicago area. There's plenty of ULSD diesel stations here. Most of the pumps are labeled with the ULSD label somewhere near or on the pump.

The bigger issue here is that many here sell only B20 which is a no-no for our '09 TDI's. I think Illinois has a road/sales tax break for anything over B10(?)

If ithe pump is not labeled and you have to ask, the station attendants don't know anything more than just "it's diesel".

I thought that my (individual) problem was solved when I found a local BP station with a diesel pump clearly labeled ULSD "diesel #2". Today I asked if the diesel was winterized in some way. The manager responded that she didn't know anything about that...It's the same diesel as it's been since August. ...And she really meant it quite literally. That's the last time she ordered a delivery of it. Only turns a tank 3 to 4 times a year. What's the shelf life on diesel? Is it time to buy some powerservice white bottle?
 

TopherDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Location
Stroudsburg, PA
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI
Appears that PA will now be requiring that Biodiesel be sold within a year, i guess mostly B2, which is great news AFAIC because that will solve the lubricity issue. Now if the cetane would get regulated.
 

karlthev

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Location
Ne Pa
TDI
2009
"The bigger issue here is that many here sell only B20 which is a no-no for our '09 TDI's. I think Illinois has a road/sales tax break for anything over B10(?)"


I told you I was new to this---no B20? Lubricity issues/problems? :confused: The begining of what I don't know I see.....:(



Karl
 

TopherDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Location
Stroudsburg, PA
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI
karlthev said:
"The bigger issue here is that many here sell only B20 which is a no-no for our '09 TDI's. I think Illinois has a road/sales tax break for anything over B10(?)"


I told you I was new to this---no B20? Lubricity issues/problems? :confused: The begining of what I don't know I see.....:(



Karl
I don't think that you are going to run into this issue in PA, Bio, although apparently produced in abundance in the state, hos not really made it to the pumps yet, and the new law that was passed was not that aggressive in terms of making stations run B20 or even B10 for that matter. What i saw seemed to imply that B2 was going to be available more so throughout the state.

Still haven't found a station in Northern JRZY that is selling bio.
 

PalosParked

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Location
Palos Park, IL
TDI
2009 JSW Black/Black, DSG, Panoramic Sunroof
VW doesn't recommend using anything over B2 (2% biodiesel) in the new TDI. (B20 for fleet use)

Around here the non name brand stations carry and probably sell the most diesel. And they are selling the B20 at $0.20 less than I paid for the #2. I thought my BP station had more volume than that. Always saw people at the pump. Turns out that the pump just pumps r-e-a-l slow and I might have just saw the same people still there from the day before..ha ha.
I found this link about the Illinois tax incentives for biodiesel. It's an old article from back in 2003. http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/pressreleases/gen/20030612_IL_legislation.pdf

By the way..I'm no expert. I too am new to the TDI. I love it and would buy it again in a heartbeat. I am merely sharing my observations as a newbie on the south side of Chicago.
 
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karlthev

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Location
Ne Pa
TDI
2009
This a great forum! I feel fortunate that I have been able to find it! Just as a side topic--maybe it should be a new thread consdiering all the probably opinions this one will generate but....I'm "going" with the manual tranny for my new TDI. Learned on a manual and still prefer them. My one buddy in California wouldn't think of the manual though and bought the auto. Anyone know the % differences in sales betweeen the two setups?
I'm apprehensive to ask for preferences and won't though they may come up here.....

Karl
 
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NEPA_TDI

New member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Location
Northeast PA
TDI
2009 TDI DSG
Karl, best of luck whichever route you take. However, I'm also in NE PA and have several K on my 2009. The car has been flawless, but I would probably not buy it again and have seriously considered jumping out.

The fuel has been a major hassle, even with only a few fill-ups. Three of the five stations in my town sell diesel, but only one has ULSD and they have only one nozzle. It's an antique pump which means going inside to pay, and it's also uncovered so you pump in the rain / snow. I knew that much before I bought the car, but waiting in line while someone fills their F350 is a pain. Also, the pump is very slow; a gas pump usually is < 10 sec / gal; this thing is about half-speed.

I travel PA / NJ / NY quite a bit and have had to drive from station to station to find ULSD, at least in PA. Once a coworker was with me and he said - For this you pay $.80 / gal MORE? Hard to argue... Worse, a big station / mini-mart has, say, 10 or 12 total nozzles and maybe two of them are ULSD. They're usually blocked by other cars filling with gas so you have to sit and wait until they open up. Other drivers will look at you like you're crazy and try to wave you to open gas pumps because they don't get what you're doing. This got very old immediately.

I got fuel in Harrisburg this week and there were several ULSD nozzles; the one I got was extremely fast, but overall it's a major downer even given that the law will require ULSD everywhere before long.

I recently stopped for fuel at the station where my VW dealer fuels all its new cars, including mine - I had watched them drive it up the road to fuel it. Anyway, a salesman was there fueling a new TDI for delivery and asked how I was liking mine. Great, I said, and he drove off as I was putting in the nozzle. It was then I noticed the pumps were LSD, not ULSD. I hadn't even looked, just took it for granted since the dealer goes there. Yes, the DEALER has been fueling all its TDIs with the wrong fuel. I called my salesman to tell him what I'd seen. Gee, we never noticed, he said. I'll have to let the sales manager know, he said. Uh-huh. Meanwhile I found ULSD at another station about 1/4 mile further from the dealer, which was fortunate 'cuz I was on fumes.

I've had sticks in my GTI and WRX and would have gone that route with the TDI, but lately I spend a lot of time in NY / NJ on business and the DSG makes the traffic a lot easier to take. No regrets on that front; the DSG is very slick.

I left the car outside recently on a subzero overnight; it started and ran just fine. I can run it in my garage - legal disclaimer: do NOT try this at home... cold or hot and have not even a hint of diesel exhaust - very impressive technology. Still, I drove a 2.0TSI gasser before buying and if I had to do it over again would likely go that route. Faster, funner, and no hassles (not even a timing belt) yet still not awful on gas.

Regards,
Jeff
 
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karlthev

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Location
Ne Pa
TDI
2009
My immediate post was sarcastically reactive. Now I see a most alarming picture. While I generally don't need my nerves frayed any more than they are generally, I might be able to wait in line for fuel....occasionally, but on a regular basis the answer would be a deciding no. What I find most disturbing however is the dealer fueling up new vehicles with LSD vs the required ULSD!!! Presuming validity of this information (and I don't have any reason not to presume this!) I believe this action may represent some rather gross negligence on the part of the dealer. Any others as disturbed about this as I am?:( :confused:


Karl
 

TopherDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Location
Stroudsburg, PA
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI
If you would like volumunous reading, search the word dealership or stealership. Should only take you maybe 3-6 months to read through the threads proclaiming their incompetence.
 

karlthev

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Location
Ne Pa
TDI
2009
You're probably right 'though I'd sure like to know which one this might be....


Karl
 

NEPA_TDI

New member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Location
Northeast PA
TDI
2009 TDI DSG
I'm not seeking to jam the dealer, as they've been very good to me through five cars. I thought it was important, though, as it shows the potential fueling pitfalls. At least we know one tank of LSD won't kill the emissions system - er, umm, I hope.

I had anticipated some of these issues and never thought it would be a big deal, especially at 500 - 600+ miles per tank, but I've found it very annoying.

Now I'm starting to see signs advertising biodiesel (York PA, just passing by) and wonder how long it will be before more stations are off-limits. I think my manual says the 2009s are good through B5, though, no?
 

karlthev

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Location
Ne Pa
TDI
2009
Understood on the dealer. Well, I went to the gas/fuel prices link but unfortunately, much of the information was incorrect.:( Without my dealer giving me at least a dozen reasonably close stations which carry ULSD I won't even consider this car. It doesn't matter how good the vehicle, without fuel it's a planter.


Karl
 

Sip'n Diesel

Veteran Newbie
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Location
San Joaquin Valley, I have VCDS (KII-USB)
TDI
2003 ALH: 254,000 miles

Souzafone

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2004
Location
Freetown,Ma.
TDI
'99 Jetta A4, Whitish
You're making a mountain out of a molehill, just look for any station that caters to trucks. You can go 700 miles on a tank, I'm pretty sure by the time you're through your first tank you'll make mental notes on which stations have diesel, which have the best price, and which have the most traffic. You would have to look very hard to find any diesel fuel that is not ulsd, and don't worry about bio, lubricity, and cetane until you've had time to learn. If it gets very cold buy an anti gelling additive and follow the directions, this isn't rocket science, and unless you have an '09 you don't have to worry about the differences between lsd and ulsd. Once you understand it, it's very easy, there's an amazing amount of mis-info out there. And don't rely on a dealer for anything to do with the diesel aspects of your car, they are the library of congress of mis-information.
 

karlthev

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Location
Ne Pa
TDI
2009
Well, no, I really don't believe I'm not making a "mountain out of a molehill" although maybe I've given the wrong impression. :confused: I do believe that is POSSIBLE I may have a mental note of all the stations which carry ULSD at the end of a 700 mile tankful but PROBABLY not unfortunately. My travel (at least at this time of the year) is mainly in the dark to work very early in the morning and from work to home late at night. I may have been spoiled by 40+ years of driving gas and not having to look for fuel stations but I usually have other things on my mind when enroute and I don't even turn my radio on to avoid distraction. Trying to spot ULSD-carrying stations along the route may happen but, it'll be most difficult. Maybe when we have the change of seasons and it's light out when I'm on the road but until then, I'm somewhat limited to websites telling me which stations have or don't have ULSD for this car. To date, the info has been very spotty in accuracy I'm sorry to say. In time though, with a few miles on the road, I'm hoping I'll be proven wrong and you right.

"You'll have to look hard to find any diesel fuel which is not ULSD...."---not true so far---although I do wish you were correct since if you were, I wouldn't have started this thread. MOST of the stations I've been at so far (only 10 or 12 admittedly) have had pumps labeled LSD or with no labeling at all--despite what Federal regulations may require. When questioned attendants give a blank stare. I'm not adverse to a bit of seek and find if I don't have to use a tank of gas and countless hours in transit seeking the right stuff however the idea here behind this car is a bit of DEcreased fuel expenditure, not more.

Now, I don't live on the tundra 100 miles from civilization and I don't live in downtown L.A. so maybe middle America (if that's what you call my location) just has to wait a bit more for the fuel to get to us at a few more stations. It may well be I'm selectively missing them---"can't see the forest for the trees"! :eek: That could be!

I'm no scientist but I do have a number of physics, biology, chemistry and math courses under my belt (along with a few beers as well:p ). I'm not exactly "worried" about bio, lubricity or cetane and I do understand the rudimentary concepts of the terms. I did post earlier that I might be worried though, and sent the wrong message--my bad. Should my interest in diesel go further than just wanting an efficent vehicle, I'll just have to study a bit.

I am (hopefully!) getting an '09 diesel though and the ULSD is the concern which I hope I'll soon overcome--with info on "local" stations! Thanks!


Karl
 
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