BITurbo 1.9pd!
- Thread starter P777
- Start date
cuban11182
Veteran Member
I think you're going to have to build that setup yourself. Head to Facebook as there are more folks running compound setups. Many of them from Finland.
I read there! People from Finland put big turbines, dumb city ride! I want a powerful car and comfortable in the city!
cuban11182
Veteran Member
Look Markus L is from Finland, lol.
adamss24
Veteran Member
Then do as the rest of the herd- fit a single big turbo and be done with it...cant have it all...
I'm interested in how the exhaust manifold is implemented, do I need an external westgate ?! There may be some photos left?
diffas
Veteran Member
Small HP turbo with good internal wastegate (hard to find those) and big LP turbo without wastegate is easiest setup to go with. And with external WG plumbing gets bit more complicated. And it gets even more complicated with VNT+WG, but all are totally doable for sure. Markus has quite nice build and can open it more if wants to 
This thread might be good to check out http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=502244
This thread might be good to check out http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=502244
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Markus L
Veteran Member
My exhaust manifold was self made but I didn't take any decent pictures of it.
External wastegate is useful. I had like 1 bar drop in EMP with 3 bar boost when used it to bypass some of gas over HP turbine. 38mm is more than enough. When WG was fully open vanes needed to be quite shut to achieve 3.8 bar.
LP had an internal wastegate but eventually I didn't use it at all. You should search for largest housing possible for HX40. I think something like #20 exists.
I would like to chat with you in the messenger, how are you on facebook?
Markus L
Veteran Member
Sorry but I'm not looking for a chat friend. It's too time consuming for me to give technical advices to people in chats, PM's etc. If you have questions you can ask them in this thread so someone else might find an answer for their questions too.
tell me please how to connect the west gate? in front of a large turbine and exit to the exhaust system? or in front of a small turbine?
diffas
Veteran Member
If you use two wastegates for both turbos, first one comes in front of the HP turbine and flows into LP turbine. In LP turbo it comes before the LP turbine and flows to the exhaustpipe.
Some old picture from AAZ project
Some old picture from AAZ project
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tell me why the Westgate is going back to the exhaust manifold, not the streets! We need to lower the pressure!If you use two wastegates for both turbos, first one comes in front of the HP turbine and flows into LP turbine. In LP turbo it comes before the LP turbine and flows to the exhaustpipe.
Some old picture from AAZ project
I do not quite understand what a large turbine will be controlled? Or do you need a turbine with a built-in west gate ???Like this
You can ignore compressor bypass and EGR.
say turbines gtb2056vl and holset hx40 are suitable for my setup ??? or do i need a holset hx40w with integrated westgate?
TDIMeister
Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Combining a VNT HP stage and wastegated LP can be a little tricky to get proper boost control with an OEM computer that takes only one signal (boost pressure) as input. You cannot control a vane position actuator and a wastegate actuator from same boost pressure signal, even if you were to convert so that both actuate by pressure or vacuum because they have very different control transfer function behaviours.
I hate to say this, but for most people, they should go with WG turbos on both stages to make their lives easier. Integral wastegates are fine, or you can use an integral WG on the HP turbo and external WG on the LP. You also cannot control two wastegates with a single actuation output signal, because stages need to be actuated separately and independently. Otherwise, both wastegates will actuate simultaneously, and both turbos will act as a single unit simultaneously combining the worst of the small (restrictive) and big (slow response) turbo's attributes. There's no one way to do it - it will involve some experimentation. Some people use boost pressure to actuate the HP (smaller) turbo's WG, while the LP (larger) is actuated by exhaust manifold pressure or interstage differential pressure.
As part of my Master thesis in 2009, I developed an R2S system for gasoline engines inspired from the similar system for Diesels in the BMW 23d with Borg Warner as collaborators: https://www.gtisoft.com/wp-content/uploads/publication/FEV2009.pdf
Another alternative is to employ VNT on both HP and LP stages. This is a "latest" development published by Borg-Warner dated 2017, but I have documented done work in this forum on this dating back to at least 2009.
https://www.borgwarner.com/newsroom...rbocharging-system-with-two-vtg-turbochargers
In a "Bi-VNT" setup, the control can be the most challenging or most easy one of all, depending on your level of knowledge and comfort working with electronics and control systems. I detailed elsewhere where one could actually use a single N75 PWM signal from the OEM ECU to drive two separate electronic vane actuators. PWM signals are easy to manipulate and condition, so that you can modify the N75 signal to control the LP stage(e.g. change the frequency, introduce a lag or hysteresis, implement a switch, etc.), while keeping the original N75 signal intact to control the HP stage. Also, if you are an electronics wizard, you can add additional inputs to the ECU by adding a slave microcontroller (e.g. using a Raspberry Pi board) that takes additional engine RPM and throttle position sensor (TPS) signals to generate a map of when and how you want to the individual stages to operate. However, implementing this properly requires additional bypasses (e.g. external wastegate or butterfly valve) to deactivate the HP stage to prevent dangerous overboost.
I hate to say this, but for most people, they should go with WG turbos on both stages to make their lives easier. Integral wastegates are fine, or you can use an integral WG on the HP turbo and external WG on the LP. You also cannot control two wastegates with a single actuation output signal, because stages need to be actuated separately and independently. Otherwise, both wastegates will actuate simultaneously, and both turbos will act as a single unit simultaneously combining the worst of the small (restrictive) and big (slow response) turbo's attributes. There's no one way to do it - it will involve some experimentation. Some people use boost pressure to actuate the HP (smaller) turbo's WG, while the LP (larger) is actuated by exhaust manifold pressure or interstage differential pressure.
As part of my Master thesis in 2009, I developed an R2S system for gasoline engines inspired from the similar system for Diesels in the BMW 23d with Borg Warner as collaborators: https://www.gtisoft.com/wp-content/uploads/publication/FEV2009.pdf
Another alternative is to employ VNT on both HP and LP stages. This is a "latest" development published by Borg-Warner dated 2017, but I have documented done work in this forum on this dating back to at least 2009.
https://www.borgwarner.com/newsroom...rbocharging-system-with-two-vtg-turbochargers
In a "Bi-VNT" setup, the control can be the most challenging or most easy one of all, depending on your level of knowledge and comfort working with electronics and control systems. I detailed elsewhere where one could actually use a single N75 PWM signal from the OEM ECU to drive two separate electronic vane actuators. PWM signals are easy to manipulate and condition, so that you can modify the N75 signal to control the LP stage(e.g. change the frequency, introduce a lag or hysteresis, implement a switch, etc.), while keeping the original N75 signal intact to control the HP stage. Also, if you are an electronics wizard, you can add additional inputs to the ECU by adding a slave microcontroller (e.g. using a Raspberry Pi board) that takes additional engine RPM and throttle position sensor (TPS) signals to generate a map of when and how you want to the individual stages to operate. However, implementing this properly requires additional bypasses (e.g. external wastegate or butterfly valve) to deactivate the HP stage to prevent dangerous overboost.
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where can I read about this installation in Finland?