Who has the best Quality Diesel Fuel in the US.

hpc

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Location
indiana
TDI
2002 NB TDI, 2013 GLK 250 BlueTec
I have noticed distinct differences in per tank
mileage (and hence, mpg) when traveling from
MS to IN and MS to NC.

Just returned from Indy where I filled with B20 from
the Co-op. Drove 500+ miles and filled up in Alabama
at the BP station. Noticed an IMMEDIATE 5-6 MPG
diff per the scanguage....hmmm....turned car off; filled
up; turned car on; drive.... 5-6 MPG drop still holding.
No mountains/big hills. Same speeds, etc.

I've seen like instances when driving to NC - would see
immediate drops in MPG after filling up at various
stations. The best per tank MPG was at the 'QT'
somewhere just across the NC/SC border.

Locally, in the Gulf Coast area of MS, I've been
using Kangaroo and Shell. Crappy mileage.
Going to try the LOVE or PILOT but they're always
stacked up at the auto-diesel pumps with the
gassers getting gasoline OR blocking the diesel pumps.
Might try the really late night fillups.
 

diesel-dave

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Location
earth
TDI
2003 wagon TDI, 2003 wagon Tdi, 2013 Q7 Tdi
I go a Shell station to fill up, but it's diesel pumps contain B10 from quarles.
clearly labeled on the pump.
 

LumberJack5500

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Location
Enfield, NH
TDI
1996 B4V
I have a hard time believing that filling up when the hose is warm will result in overall delivery of less fuel because of expansion/contraction. It just doesn't seem like it would make that big of an impact.
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
LumberJack5500 said:
I have a hard time believing that filling up when the hose is warm will result in overall delivery of less fuel because of expansion/contraction. It just doesn't seem like it would make that big of an impact.
Sure it does if you are pumping 50,000 gallons worth... {I agree with you}

Small amounts simply will not see any measurable difference. It comes back to energy density in the fuel itself and parafin content. Some fuel suppliers have better fuel in respect to actual BTU's per unit of fuel (Kg, lbs, gallons, grams etc).

I know there are a few places that I have gone and gotten better fuel economy due to higher BTU's irrespective of the temperature it was pumped at.

Also TDI's regulate the fuel temperature to around 70-80C in the fuel system so the 15-40C you had when filling was irrelevant.

DB
 

10then34

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Location
North Dakota
TDI
'06 Jetta
I use 'Flint Hills Resources' (formerly Koch) 'Gold Diesel' in the summer and 'FH Arctic' in the winter.

It is sold at our local Mills Fleet&Farm supply store. The stuff is water clear instead of the green-blue-brown-fluorescent colour of the fuel sold at all the other stations. I go through a lot of fuel (4k miles/month), since I have exclusively changed to the FH stuff, my fuel-filters come out with a light-brown colour instead of the tar-black they used to have before.

http://www.premiumdiesel.com/product/

They advertise 42-46 Cetane for their regular 'Gold' and 47-50 for their 'Gold Plus' (which I can't get it seems).

When I was still experimenting with different brands of fuel, I didn't notice any significant differences in MPG using '5 tank averages' . The car however sounds less 'diesely' and there is less soot on the trunk lid with FH fuel (it is also harder to make those nice puffy black clouds on the interstate entrance ramp....).
 

dhdenney

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Kentucky
TDI
2012 Audi A3 TDI Ibis white
LumberJack5500 said:
I have a hard time believing that filling up when the hose is warm will result in overall delivery of less fuel because of expansion/contraction. It just doesn't seem like it would make that big of an impact.
Someone correct me if I am wrong but it seems that the underground temperature where the tank lies will remain somewhat static. Above ground tanks might be a different story but those are kinda few and a thing of the past.
 

10then34

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Location
North Dakota
TDI
'06 Jetta
dhdenney said:
Someone correct me if I am wrong but it seems that the underground temperature where the tank lies will remain somewhat static. Above ground tanks might be a different story but those are kinda few and a thing of the past.
When fuel is delivered through pipelines, it is metered/corrected with a temperature factor.

There has been some drive to make fuel retailers do the same thing on their pump. If you google 'hot fuel' you will find people very passionate about that issue (the same people also try to sue their grocery store about the weight of the sheet of paper between slices of cold-cuts).

If I recall the discussion correctly, service stations in Hawaii have that temperature correction (go figure, the state with the least variation in temperature throughout the seasons).
 

dhdenney

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Kentucky
TDI
2012 Audi A3 TDI Ibis white
10then34 said:
When fuel is delivered through pipelines, it is metered/corrected with a temperature factor.

There has been some drive to make fuel retailers do the same thing on their pump. If you google 'hot fuel' you will find people very passionate about that issue (the same people also try to sue their grocery store about the weight of the sheet of paper between slices of cold-cuts).

If I recall the discussion correctly, service stations in Hawaii have that temperature correction (go figure, the state with the least variation in temperature throughout the seasons).
Yeah I see it on the news every now and then but I think it's minuscule at best. :)
 

Kier

Veteran Member
Joined
May 14, 2004
Location
Trenton NJ
TDI
2006.5 Jetta Limited Diesel Edition, DSG, Reflex Silver/Anthracite
How does Exxon stack up? Twin Exxon stations in Hanover MD are now selling Diesel for $4.49 per gallon. This is almost 50 cents cheaper than the more expensive stations in the area. These Exxon stations are new with the typical mini mart attachment along with car washes.
 

mrGutWrench

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 29, 2002
Location
Carrboro, NC
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon, 5-speed, 563K Miles (July '23)
Kier said:
How does Exxon stack up? (snip)
__. You never know. Unless you're very near competing pipelines (or import terminals) or you have a very unusual like 10then34 noted above, it's all the same old rotgut sold around anyway. Unless it has different additives in it or it isn't the same old rotgut.

__. What it comes down to is that you never know. If it will save you ~$7.50 a fillup, I'd at least try it.
 

ChiTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2002
Location
Chicago IL
TDI
'02 Jetta
Koch and Shell

10then34 said:
I use 'Flint Hills Resources' (formerly Koch) 'Gold Diesel' in the summer and 'FH Arctic' in the winter.

It is sold at our local Mills Fleet&Farm supply store. The stuff is water clear instead of the green-blue-brown-fluorescent colour of the fuel sold at all the other stations. I go through a lot of fuel (4k miles/month), since I have exclusively changed to the FH stuff, my fuel-filters come out with a light-brown colour instead of the tar-black they used to have before.

http://www.premiumdiesel.com/product/

They advertise 42-46 Cetane for their regular 'Gold' and 47-50 for their 'Gold Plus' (which I can't get it seems).

When I was still experimenting with different brands of fuel, I didn't notice any significant differences in MPG using '5 tank averages' . The car however sounds less 'diesely' and there is less soot on the trunk lid with FH fuel (it is also harder to make those nice puffy black clouds on the interstate entrance ramp....).
Best mileage ever for me in 150k is Koch Gold Plus. Consistently better.

Original poster asked about Shell. Good or bad.
I got great mileage from the Canadian Shell but certainly not from the US stuff. Coincidence? Dunno.
 

10then34

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Location
North Dakota
TDI
'06 Jetta
ChiTDI said:
I got great mileage from the Canadian Shell but certainly not from the US stuff. Coincidence? Dunno.
As pointed out, with few exceptions (e.g. the Koch stuff), diesel fuel for the most part is whatever the local pipeline terminal has in their tank. It turns into 'shell' 'exxon' or 'superfragilicious' after someone dumps a jug of that particular marketers additive package into the tanker.
 

Steve-o

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 1999
Location
Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon
ChiTDI said:
Best mileage ever for me in 150k is Koch Gold Plus. Consistently better.
+1. Koch Gold is the stuff! Can't really comment on Shell since the number of Shell stations around here can be counted on about one hand...
 

no-blue-screen

TDI Nut
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Location
Maryland
TDI
TDI
I usually fuel at BP, but the local BP station where I used to get power-blend changed their pumps and now they just say 'diesel' instead of power-blend premium diesel. Their prices have come down a bit too....maybe they changed due to the high fuel prices. I filled up at a Sunoco in Brandywine for $4.49 per gallon and I am seeing some of my best mileage yet on the trip computer...which in my jeep is very accurate. My BP was giving me a consistant 25mpg average...my average is now showing over 26mpg with the Sunoco stuff. There is a shell right around the corner from my house that is down to $4.55 a gallon so I may give them a try too. Most stations around my house are more expensive then the stuff in Southern part of MD.

As most have said....it's the same fuel at all the stations....it's just a different additive package depending on where you go.
 

Zambee500

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
2005 Passat TDI GLS, 2014 NMS Passat TDI SEL Premium
I posted this in another thread about "cheap" prices for diesel fuel. Anybody looked into fuel quality at QuikTrip stations? They're pretty much limited to locations in the Midwest, Phoenix, Dallas, and Atlanta. They advertise heavily here in Atlanta and seem to pride themselves on their fuel quality for gasoline, but I have no idea about their diesel fuel. Their "Travel Centers" (i.e., truck stops) seem to be the only locations with diesel pumps (although both truck and regular pumps), and the location 10 miles south of town has been 30-50 cents per gallon cheaper than the competition the past several weeks. So I've been filling up there the past 4 or 5 tanks. Car has seemingly run really well too, and the last tank got a 1-2 mpg boost over our average. I did switch from Stanadyne Performance Formula to the gray Power Service Diesel Kleen on the last fill-up, so it could be that, or just an anamoly in Atlanta rush-hour traffic (summer vacationers typically lighten the travel volume for rush hour during summer months).

Anyway, we've pretty much stuck exclusively with BP and Shell, with the occasional Sam's Club fill-up, since we bought our TDI 14 months ago. But I think I can get used to QuikTrip at these prices with no apparent adverse effects. Filled up tonight for $4.11/gallon while the Shell station a mile from the house is still at $4.79/gallon. It seems worth the extra half-hour and burned fuel getting there to save $10 on a fill-up, and the spotless pumps and clean stores with friendly/literate staff certainly don't hurt either. :D
 
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JosephH1

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Location
Lewiston, NY
TDI
2010 Silver 2dr
10then34 said:
As pointed out, with few exceptions (e.g. the Koch stuff), diesel fuel for the most part is whatever the local pipeline terminal has in their tank. It turns into 'shell' 'exxon' or 'superfragilicious' after someone dumps a jug of that particular marketers additive package into the tanker.
+1. In this part of the world, I have observed the same fuel truck visit several different branded stations for delivery in the same day.
 

pneuma

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
TDI
2006 Jetta
My best tank was from Chevron.

Phillips brands have been hit an miss for me, Exxon as well. I've had bad tanks with some local Shell B2, but honestly, the biggest effect on my MPG is how much time I drive in town, and if it's raining. If I'm in town a lot, or if it's raining a lot, I lose 2-3 mpg off a tank.

P.
 

den9

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Location
doylestown pa
TDI
04 Jetta
hess is actually pretty crappy, and usually 20 cents cheaper. i go for sunoco, shell, bp. i think the best fuel is from a pump that is constantly being used so you know the fuel isnt old.
 

Paul7878

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Location
Bismarck, ND
TDI
2003 VW Jetta TDI
From one of my posts in another thread:

Well I got a response back from Cenex Fuels or CHS as they are formally known and this is what they said about their Roadmaster Premium diesel. I was pleasantly surpised by the lubricity standards:

Hello Paul,

Thank you for your questions regarding Cenex Roadmaster XL.

Our specs are a minimum 45 cetane but it is typically 47 or better and 440-460 HFRR (High Frequency Reciprocating Rig which is a fuel lubricity test) meets OEM recommendations. Cenex Roadmaster XL on it's own doesn't have cold flow improvers to reduce CFPP.

A typical #2 fuel may have a cetane as low as 40 and HFRR at 520. The HFRR test the lower the number the better.

Our Wintermaster product is a combination of #1 and #2 fuel with our Cenex Roadmaster XL additive and a cold flow improver and is good to -30F. The cold flow improver has Wax anti-settling agents and deicers within the cold flow package to help extend operabilty.

Please let me know if you have any more questions!

I found a good article regarding this HFRR test by ASTM:
Found Here

Also, nice thing to know is, this stuff meets the Euro EN590 maximum wear spec of 460.
 

wny_pat

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Western New York State
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
lkchris said:
Well, when I started hauling fuel many years ago when ARCO was still on the east coast, their standard was to shut down the pumps while I was dropping the load and for at least a half hour after I left the station. Then they hired some beancounters and things changed.

And it is okay if the particles of dirt and sludge (and water) were to stay on top of the fuel, but it doesn't. It gets stirred up and is mixed with the fuel. The pump intake pipe in the tank is about 7 or 8 inches up from the bottom of the tank. Once all the stuff has settled to the bottom of the tank it is safe to pump again. About 30 minutes after the fuel transport leaves. That gives a actual settle time of at least 50 minutes to a hour, considering unhooking time and paperwork.

As to the snopes viewpoint, I have pumped out tanks and seen what is on the bottom of them. The filters they talk about are not any larger than a engine motor oil filter. And they don't change them as often as they should. And they by-pass. After hauling fuel to stations, trucking companies, bus companies, and air ports for over 20 years, I will wait until the transport is long gone no matter what Snopes says !!! Both diesel or gas.

And I have still gotten bad fuel. But then I have unknowingly hauled bad fuel that we had to haul back to the refinery. It happens, and it does not matter what the name of the fuel is!!! The best of them have their problems.
 
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RalphVa

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Location
Virginia
TDI
Jetta
I'll bet with ULSD being required as of December 1st in ALL stations, that the quality won't vary much. I once fueled up at a station near New Orleans and bought their diesel completely water white. Think it was the station brand bought by BP. Not sure there are many additives in diesel. Oil companies getting very paraffinic crudes could be getting diesel with a higher cetane index, but I'll bet it'll vary greatly depending on the region of the country you're in and time of year, etc.

I've driven diesels for 31 years. 'twere Mercedes up until this new TDI. I gave up on MB ever giving me another stick shift diesel. Our diesels burn almost exclusively (except for those rare cases like that station in NO) Exxon because I get 10% off the non-taxed price.
 

RalphVa

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Location
Virginia
TDI
Jetta
In 31 years of driving a diesel, I've only had the fuel filter plug ONCE and actually NO water problems. The lone fuel filter plug was likely caused by my starting to use B5. The bio in B5 likely cleaned out the tank and caused that cleaned out stuff to plug the filter after the 3rd tank. This occurred to a friend of mine who drives a TDI after she switched to using bio, too. She doesn't remember how many tankfuls it took.

I have an auxiliary filter that includes a water drain on the shelf in my garage. Think I bought it in 1984 when we bought the year old 240D to replace our 220D. I couldn't figure out how to put the auxiliary in there and look nice. On the TDI, it really has little space to add such a thing.

Also, I have to caution against adding auxilliary filters and such that end up very far from the engine because Mercedes' design of placing their fuel filters right up against the engine helped us get through a bit of gelling of the fuel on a -22 F morning. It was on the old 220D. I'd added a rad hose heater on it that I plugged in that morning. After heating for 30 minutes or so and glowing for about a minute, the engine fired immediately to life. About 2 or 3 miles down the road, it quit. Let it sit for 2 or 3 minutes. Fired right up. Drove another 2 or 3 miles before it quit again. Let it sit 2 or 3 minutes. Then it fired right up and kept going. With a filter out in the cold, I'd probably have been stuck that morning. I learned about adding some kerosene for the winter in Vermont after that.

Still, I'm getting a spare fuel filter to carry in the trunk of the TDI and have that torx screwdriver to remove the screws on the top of the filter housing. When I change filters out, I just use that one and get a new one to store away.
 

d2305

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2004
Location
Pensacola FL
TDI
14 Ram EcoDiesel
Those of you who think that brands are different, try following the tanker truck from the station back to the fuel farm. Most parts of the country only have one choice. I don't know what the add to the fuel once it's in the tanker, however.
 

Ton

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Location
Free Union,VA
TDI
early 2001 jetta
dhdenney said:
Someone correct me if I am wrong but it seems that the underground temperature where the tank lies will remain somewhat static. Above ground tanks might be a different story but those are kinda few and a thing of the past.
I have been at a Sunoco in Alma ,VA to hang out not to fill up. This station has an above ground diesel tank. It has the best diesel price in the area.
 

Cool Breeze

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Location
US
TDI
BMW 335D
Just want to throw out that for the U.S. BMW recommends BP/Amoco diesel (probably due to higher Cetane of the premium diesel). BMW recommends Cetane of 50 or higher. Per BP website: "Amoco Premier Diesel meets a minimum 47 cetane rating. "
 
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