BHW TDI with 02m->02d syncro->0a5 4motion swap into Eurovan

vanbcguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
'93 Passat - AHU mTDI with GTB1756VK
Gotcha, the addition of EDL / ASR would start up a conversation between the engine and the ABS system.

The ABS in my Passat is a simpler one, the 4 cylinder cars got plain ABS while VR6 cars had EDL too. The EDL version of the hardware has an extra multi pin connector at the pump.

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Gotcha, the addition of EDL / ASR would start up a conversation between the engine and the ABS system.

The ABS in my Passat is a simpler one, the 4 cylinder cars got plain ABS while VR6 cars had EDL too. The EDL version of the hardware has an extra multi pin connector at the pump.

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk
Well, from a list I was able to find on passat world forums and cross referenced on oemepc.com it appears the b5.5 Passat I have was fortunate enough to have them all. Unless I've read the numbers wrong. I have a 40 ish (43?) pin connector at the abs ecu as well as a second three pin that connects around on the back. I guess we'll see :D. Either way I wanted ANS to work so it needed to be done. The other possibility is swapping in a 4motion pump for when I get the syncro installed, IF that will make a difference.
 

450

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2012
Location
Ohio
TDI
None. 01 EV
It has/had ESP and asr by default, but not EDL based on the info I could find. The Passat ABS unit has all three it seems. The biggest thing was getting the Eurovan abs pump to talk to the Passat ecu, no clue if that's possible honestly. From the mk4 abs pump swaps it appears only a small number of pumps can be coded to an ecu, no one really has a list or why it works that way. Just the way they were designed and programmed.

The 02g would be nice, but the 4cylinders won't bolt up to one. So you would need to import a 2.5L tdi. They offered syncro in the 02g though. I just didn't want a motor I couldn't easily get parts or service for. What I'm building is basically a stock van but with the BHW diesel instead of the ABL that was offered. Next gen TDI with otherwise stock van parts.

Some odds and ends parts and the starter delivered today. Exhaust was shipped. I'm hoping most of the big parts are in by next week so I can put them all on. The missus is going to be out of town for a few days which leaves me full reign in the garage. Minus a half a day for some mountain biking. The only things I'll still need to fab up are the oil pan and pickup which is at the welders currently, the passenger side mount, and the transfer case mount to the block on the passenger side. I think the rest is basically bolt/cobble together with parts I have.

Still need a coolant flow diagram of anyone has one for a 2002 EVW westfalia.
From what I understand the Bosch 5.3 has EDL based on one of the first lines which state: "ESP is an additional extension of the well-known driving safety systems ABS/EDL and ABS/EDL/ASR." plus this thread which lead me to believe that if it has ASR or ESP that EDL is an included component.

The 02G that would work with my AXK VR6 apparently doesn't support a syncro system. The 02G with syncro would require custom conversion.

I figured if I'm going custom anyway, perhaps I can just see how your 4motion project is going and go with that instead.
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Here's a question I can't seem to find the answer to... How much oil do I put in? I won't be able to rely on the dipstick since the engine is now sitting at a different angle. It looks like the older ABL TDIs in the T4 transporters used 5-5.5L of oil and they also had a steel sump. It was shaped a little differently, but similar enough. The typical BHW ran with 3.8-4L, however the pan was shaped quite differently. I'm trying to figure out how to remark the dipstick with the correct level so I know if I need to add/take out oil. I know putting too much oil in isn't good, but does anyone have some ideas about the actual level I should be shooting for? Thanks!
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
450 said:
From what I understand the Bosch 5.3 has EDL based on one of the first lines which state: "ESP is an additional extension of the well-known driving safety systems ABS/EDL and ABS/EDL/ASR." plus this thread which lead me to believe that if it has ASR or ESP that EDL is an included component.

The 02G that would work with my AXK VR6 apparently doesn't support a syncro system. The 02G with syncro would require custom conversion.

I figured if I'm going custom anyway, perhaps I can just see how your 4motion project is going and go with that instead.
True, but some cars came with only ASR, some with ASR/EDL, some with all three. EDS is German for EDL if you see that at all. I don't think the eurovan had EDL based on what I could find in the manual and cross referencing the numbers of the pump online. Either way, the passat ABS will work with itself, and I wasn't sure if the EV ABS unit would be accepted by the BHW ECU. There were a few cases of folks not being able to code new/swapped/upgraded ABS units to their ECU. Something about them being a one time code, or the actual car's program won't accept but one or two different variants. Not sure about this completely, and it may have worked, but it's already wired in and the lines swapped over. Just have to bleed the brakes and the pump with VCDS.

The typical T4 uses syncro and viscous coupler vs. the 4 motion using a haldex controller at the rear. I have some thoughts about converting a VC setup to Haldex and running a standalone controller, but that is in the future and I'm just looking to get it running first. There are some MK2 forums where they have a mount to swap in a Haldex in place of their syncro rear end, so I'll have to look more into that when the time comes. The biggest hurdle with just using the T5 gearbox was the output of the transfer case was completely in the wrong spot for the T4 and the steering rack. If you could figure out a way to get around that and wanted to make the custom axles you could do it easy peasy.

So far the only thing custom is going to be the oil sump modifications, the passenger side transfer case bracket and the pass side motor mount. Everything else is stock and bolts up like it should. This project has become much easier, and the monumental task of the wiring becomes the hardest part. I *Think* I'm done with the wiring, we'll hopefully see this week! New axles are sitting in boxes too to be bolted up as the VR6 came with 112mm CVs the others had 108mm.
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Awesome thread. You need to post pictures!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Working on it. I had quite a few pictures that have since been erased thanks to photobucket. I'll have to repost them eventually.

Progress being made. Got the passenger side motor mount welded up and put in. It's finally hanging on its own and not with an engine hoist or jack. Quite a glorious sight for sure. I've gotten the rear torque mount made and need to get it fitted up for the block to the passenger side of the transfer box. I've got most of the wiring hooked back up to the motor.

Done since the last post:

Passenger side motor mount welded up
Motor bolted up to the transmission
Clutch installed
Slave cylinder installed
Clutch pedal/master cylinder installed
Wiring finalized (I think...?)
Clutch safety switch installed
Cruise control wired into vans switch. I hope it will work. May still need some tweaking.
Shift box/linkage bolted up
Starter bolted up
Oil pan welded up, POR15'd, repainted and installed with gasket maker on both sides of the steel oil pan gasket.


Things I still need to do:

- get the AC and alternator mounted up. I may need to space these guys out just a little or get a 5 rib belt instead of the 6. Not sure how I want to play it yet. I had a tubing bender I was using to tweak the AC lines and ended up popping the line so ...
- get the AC recharged and a new hose made for the compressor. Which also means I'll need a new dryer too. Grrrr.
- PS pump. I ended up getting one for a Mini Cooper that is electrohydraulic because the pump was hanging way too low with the motor tipped forward. I had a new hose made up and I have the bracket and fan plus all the wiring for it. Should be a fairly straight forward hookup. But as with all things on this van, nothing has been straightforward haha.
- Coolant lines, I've found flow diagrams for both motors, and the guys over on the cavevan.com forums have posted a way to simplify the coolant hoses in the eurovan and get rid of some of the clutter in the engine bay.
- I've got a front mounted transmission cooler I'm going to use as a fuel cooler, should actually be straightforward. (see above)
- Accesory belt, gotta wait on the AC and alternator to be mounted so I can measure.
- Wire in the reverse switch. Still have to salvage a plug from the wiring harness.
- Bolt the axles up. I've got the correct bolts/flanges and the axles should just bolt up. This may be the only straightforward things about this.
- IC hoses, I've got multiple elbows, 45s and silicone pieces. If I have to cut any on the high pressure side I'll have to get them reswaged so keep them from blowing off under boost. I'm guessing exhaust shop? Any tips on this will be appreciated.
- Exhaust is half finished. I'm going to be welding the downpipe flange on tomorrow to the flex pipe. I have a piece that I'll have to cut a little shorter and I'm going to use one of the flexy pipes in between until I can get an actual downpipe made between the turbo and catalytic converter. Will I need to get a diesel specific converter? Can I use the one from the Passat? I'm just not sure if there is enough room with the shift linkage and the sway bar plus the steering rack. I'm going to go lay under the van again tonight and try to figure that out.
- ECU recoding, still planning to do this so the hanging when shifting gets taken care of. I haven't decided if I want to do a stage 1 tune as well, I'm just nervous about the box holding up. I did get the USRT pinion shaft brace so theoretically I'll be ok, but still. Not too worried about the HP, just the torque of the diesel. Clutch should hold about 325 ft-lbs, so I don't think I'll get too crazy on this.
- Bleed the brakes/clutch, run the ABS pump and bleed it again. I got a motive brake bleeder, so it should be pretty easy. Ha. Should be.
- EGT probe should bolt up to the fitting I made.
- O2 sensor still needs to be installed into the downpipe. AEM makes a bolt up clamp/wrap that might work. Easiest would be to toss it into the O2 sensor bung post cat for the van, but I don't know if being that far downstream will cause problems with the readings. Any input here? If I put it in the bung I'll have to extend the wiring back to the plug. Which is childsplay at this time after all the wiring I've done, I just don't know if I want to do that yet.

In the future:

- Get a downpipe made. I have a stainless turbo flange from Darkside Developments to start it off.
- 5th gear upgrade, still not sure how low I want to go.


I feel like I'm not making progress, but then again, I'm bolting things up slowly and getting closer to starting it. I think. I'm going to wait to finish up covering all of the wiring until I know it starts/runs to prevent having to undo it all again.
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Progress since last post has been positive.

Most importantly.... It turns over!!! That was one of my biggest concerns that I'd managed to flub up the starting/clutch interlock circuits. Just have to finish the few bits below and I'll be trying to start it up.

- Finished the intake piping. It's now hooked up to the airbox.
- I think I have all the coolant hoses figured out.
- Welded in the o2/lambda sensor bung, installed sensor
- Put the EGT sensor back in
- EGR cooler is bolted back on and plumbed.
- Vacuum bulb and lines hooked up. I still need to figure out a barb for the airbox so it gets clean air in.
- Intercooler is mocked up and hanging
- Radiator, AC condensor and PS cooler lines hooked back up.
- Fuel cooler installed in front left radiator
- PS pump installed and hooked up. Still not completely happy with the reservoir location, but I'll deal with it later.
-Checked bolt torque for engine mounts, engine to transmission bolts and other random bits.

Still need to do:
- Finish intercooler plumbing
- Prime fuel pump/filter
- Refill coolant
- Bleed brakes/clutch
- Install axles
- Put the interior back together

Slowly but surely whittling things down. Getting close. Another day or two should do it I hope.
 

archemitis

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Location
minnesota
TDI
200 Golf, 1974 Westfalia TDI
Did you ever figure out what to do for the oil level? I think you should start from scratch to make sure you get it right. Mark the stick on your own and be conservative with the high low points. I just had to do that with my ALH in the T4, I went to where the pickup mushrooms out just before the tube for the low point, and up to the bottom of the windage tray for the high point.

Cool project!
I have all my photos on photobucket, and they still work. Im getting nervous about everything Ive read though.
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Did you ever figure out what to do for the oil level? I think you should start from scratch to make sure you get it right. Mark the stick on your own and be conservative with the high low points. I just had to do that with my ALH in the T4, I went to where the pickup mushrooms out just before the tube for the low point, and up to the bottom of the windage tray for the high point.

Cool project!
I have all my photos on photobucket, and they still work. Im getting nervous about everything Ive read though.
Archemitis, from my measuring I put a mark that is near the level of the windage tray and another on the stick towards the block/pan interface. I ended up putting about 4.7L in, I may have to adjust things around a little as I go along. I'm not as worried about being low as I am being high. I may still have to add some once the oil is circulated into the oil filter, and the rest of the housings and oilways in the block.

Since the last post things that have been finished:
- Intercooler plumbing is tidied up and I think I'm happy with it. I ended up getting a slightly smaller Mishimoto universal intercooler as it is slightly less tall and I think it will fit behind the bumper a little better.
- I have redone the coolant hoses a little and I think they will be fit better and will be under less stress. Hopefully they don't just blow apart once it builds up heat once we're running.

I think I've managed to short my stock ECU out, as I just can't manage to get the glow plug light to come on and I am having trouble connecting to some of the modules via VCDS. So I went to the part yard and picked up a 2nd BHW ECU and I can get all of the lights to come on and function on the dash, with a few issues.
1. Obviously the immobilizer. The easy thing is to just have this tuned out, and I may end up this way, but I've got the dash, the key/chip, the induction ring around the ignition switch and the stock ECU. I think I'll be able to get the ECU immobilizer info transferred over with VAG-TACHO that I have rented, we shall see. The reason I'm going through all of this is because I want to try and keep the van from getting stolen. I know the Vanagons are much more coveted, but they are stolen here in the PNW not infrequently. It may be false security on my part, but I'll still sleep better at night.
2. the new ECU is in crash shutdown mode, how do I turn this off and reset it?
3. I have a flashing glow plug light. In the BHW ECUs this is typically because of relay 219 or a brake light issue. All of the brake lights are working. I've replaced relay 219 and can feel/hear it clicking and working. Any thoughts?
4. The biggest and most frustrating issue is I'm having a back feed of a few volts, about 2.5V from the ECU to the fuel pump relay and that ends up going back to the relay 219 and prevents it from shutting off when the key is turned off. I have to either pull the battery or the relay 219 out to get it to shut back off. I've traced all the grounds I can see on the ECU wiring diagram, and they all seem to be functioning appropriately. I've traced the wires of the 219 circuit from the battery, to the relay 219, to the ECU and the fuel pump relay, to the fuel pump and the ECU again. There are no extra wires, no faulty grounds, the only thing I can come up with is that the ECU is putting out voltage on the T94/52 pin that I think should be grounded to make the fuel pump come on. Is it not grounding all the way? Does this sound like a ground problem? It has been infuriating and I'm not sure where else to check. I started a post in the TDI 101 forum, I probably should have listed it here or in the passat specific forums. HERE is a link to it with pictures of the wiring diagrams. Is this a problem with the reverse switch like the last poster mentions? Which wires do I need to bridge to get this working?

Anyways, here is the latest scans with the new immobilized ECU. Keep in mind the airbags and steering wheel are not connected. The first one is a passat scan, the second is the transporter/eurovan scan. Any tips are GREATLY appreciated. Thanks.

Wednesday,18,October,2017,22:30:43:56604
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows XP x86
VCDS Version: 17.8.0.1
Data version: 20170721 DS276.2
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVWVE63B94E285247 License Plate:


Chassis Type: 3B (3B - VW Passat B5 (1997 > 2005))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 35 36 37 46 47 55 56 57 58 75 76 77


VIN: WVWVE63B94E285247 Mileage: 323190km-200820miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-016-BHW.lbl
Part No SW: 038 997 016 N HW: 028 101 198 2
Component: R4 2,0L EDC G000AG 1388
Revision: 12345678 Serial number: VWZ7Z0D9744501
Coding: 0150034
Shop #: WSC 23337 444 66590
VCID: 2959BEB583243E0EFD-5140

8 Faults Found:
18017 - Crash Shut-Down Activated
P1609 - 000 - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1050 /min
Torque: 44.0 Nm
Speed: 39.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 14.14 V
Bin. Bits: 00001011
Torque: 166.0 Nm
Torque: 0.0 Nm

16791 - EGR Sensor 2
P0407 - 000 - Signal too Low
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 202.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Lambda: -1.3 %
Mass Air / Rev.: 725.0 mg/str
Mass Air / Rev.: 0.0 mg/str
Bin. Bits: 00000000

18080 - Coolant Fan Control 1
P1672 - 000 - Open or Short to Ground
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 202.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 11.93 V
Bin. Bits: 00001000
Temperature: 14.4°C
Duty Cycle: 0.0 %

18034 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1626 - 000 - Missing Message from TCU
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 202.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 11.93 V
Bin. Bits: 00001000
Bin. Bits: 00000000
Bin. Bits: 10000100

18057 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1649 - 000 - Missing Message from ABS Controller
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 202.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 11.93 V
Bin. Bits: 00001000
Torque: 140.0 Nm
Bin. Bits: 00000000

18044 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1636 - 000 - Missing Message from Airbag Controller
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 202.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 11.93 V
Bin. Bits: 00001000
Torque: 140.0 Nm
Torque: 108.0 Nm

17949 - Fuel Pump Relay (J17)
P1541 - 000 - Open Circuit
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 202.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 12.01 V
Bin. Bits: 00001000
Bin. Bits: 0
(no units): 0.0

17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
P1570 - 000 - - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 202.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 12.01 V
Bin. Bits: 00001000
Bin. Bits: 00000000
(no units): 0.0

Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 1J0-909-60x-VW3.lbl
Part No: 1J0 909 603 CK
Component: AIRBAG VW3 - V04
Coding: 17227
Shop #: WSC 02743
VCID: 74E79FC1446633E69E-4B00

3 Faults Found:
00588 - Airbag Igniter; Driver Side (N95)
32-00 - Resistance Too High
00589 - Airbag Igniter 1; Passenger Side (N131)
32-00 - Resistance Too High
00532 - Supply Voltage B+
07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3B0-920-xx5-17.lbl
Part No: 3B0 920 929 C
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V04
Coding: 15235
Shop #: WSC 23345
VCID: 275DB88DC530087EEB-5106
WVWVE63B94E285247 VWZ7Z0D9238547

6 Faults Found:
00771 - Fuel Level Sensor (G)
30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
01177 - Engine Control Unit
65-10 - Unauthorized - Intermittent
01316 - ABS Control Module
49-00 - No Communications
01321 - Control Module for Airbags (J234)
49-00 - No Communications
01315 - Transmission Control Module
49-00 - No Communications
01336 - Company Data Bus for Comfort System
49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 0001
Coding: 00006
Shop #: WSC 05311
VCID: 70EF93D1307E0FC67A-5106

4 Faults Found:
01316 - ABS Control Module
49-00 - No Communications
01321 - Control Module for Airbags (J234)
49-00 - No Communications
01315 - Transmission Control Module
49-00 - No Communications
01336 - Company Data Bus for Comfort System
49-00 - No Communications

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 05:31)--------------------------



Wednesday,18,October,2017,22:53:22:56604
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows XP x86
VCDS Version: 17.8.0.1
Data version: 20170721 DS276.2
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVWVE63B94E285247 License Plate:


Chassis Type: 3B (7D - VW Transporter/Multivan (1996 > 2004))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 18 19 22 25 35 37 56

VIN: WVWVE63B94E285247 Mileage: 323190km-200820miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-016-BHW.lbl
Part No SW: 038 997 016 N HW: 028 101 198 2
Component: R4 2,0L EDC G000AG 1388
Revision: 12345678 Serial number: VWZ7Z0D9744501
Coding: 0150034
Shop #: WSC 23337 444 66590
VCID: 2959BEB583243E0EFD-5140

8 Faults Found:
18017 - Crash Shut-Down Activated
P1609 - 000 - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1050 /min
Torque: 44.0 Nm
Speed: 39.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 14.14 V
Bin. Bits: 00001011
Torque: 166.0 Nm
Torque: 0.0 Nm

16791 - EGR Sensor 2
P0407 - 000 - Signal too Low
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 202.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Lambda: -1.3 %
Mass Air / Rev.: 725.0 mg/str
Mass Air / Rev.: 0.0 mg/str
Bin. Bits: 00000000

18080 - Coolant Fan Control 1
P1672 - 000 - Open or Short to Ground
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 202.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 11.93 V
Bin. Bits: 00001000
Temperature: 14.4°C
Duty Cycle: 0.0 %

18034 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1626 - 000 - Missing Message from TCU
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 202.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 11.93 V
Bin. Bits: 00001000
Bin. Bits: 00000000
Bin. Bits: 10000100

18057 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1649 - 000 - Missing Message from ABS Controller
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 202.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 11.93 V
Bin. Bits: 00001000
Torque: 140.0 Nm
Bin. Bits: 00000000

18044 - Powertrain Data Bus
P1636 - 000 - Missing Message from Airbag Controller
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 202.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 11.93 V
Bin. Bits: 00001000
Torque: 140.0 Nm
Torque: 108.0 Nm

17949 - Fuel Pump Relay (J17)
P1541 - 000 - Open Circuit
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 202.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 12.01 V
Bin. Bits: 00001000
Bin. Bits: 0
(no units): 0.0

17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
P1570 - 000 - - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 202.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 12.01 V
Bin. Bits: 00001000
Bin. Bits: 00000000
(no units): 0.0

Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 1J0-909-60x-VW3.lbl
Part No: 1J0 909 603 CK
Component: AIRBAG VW3 - V04
Coding: 17227
Shop #: WSC 02743
VCID: 74E79FC1446633E69E-4B00

3 Faults Found:
00588 - Airbag Igniter; Driver Side (N95)
32-00 - Resistance Too High
00589 - Airbag Igniter 1; Passenger Side (N131)
32-00 - Resistance Too High
00532 - Supply Voltage B+
07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3B0-920-xx5-17.lbl
Part No: 3B0 920 929 C
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V04
Coding: 15235
Shop #: WSC 23345
VCID: 275DB88DC530087EEB-5124
WVWVE63B94E285247 VWZ7Z0D9238547

6 Faults Found:
00771 - Fuel Level Sensor (G)
30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
01177 - Engine Control Unit
65-10 - Unauthorized - Intermittent
01316 - ABS Control Module
49-00 - No Communications
01321 - Control Module for Airbags (J234)
49-00 - No Communications
01315 - Transmission Control Module
49-00 - No Communications
01336 - Company Data Bus for Comfort System
49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 0001
Coding: 00006
Shop #: WSC 05311
VCID: 70EF93D1307E0FC67A-5124

4 Faults Found:
01316 - ABS Control Module
49-00 - No Communications
01321 - Control Module for Airbags (J234)
49-00 - No Communications
01315 - Transmission Control Module
49-00 - No Communications
01336 - Company Data Bus for Comfort System
49-00 - No Communications

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 03:20)--------------------------
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
I managed to find the issue with the wiring. When I was hooking up the brake light switch and cruise control wiring I somehow managed to splice a wire that was always hot with 12V into the switch at wire 3 for the vacuum vent switch for the cruise control. I had thought it was needed to make the brake lights work, but, I didn't. So I snipped that from the splice, removed the other end from the fuse box and it fixed the problem!

It LIVES! (Click the picture to watch the video)



But there's an issue with the stock ECU. When I first hooked everything up and turned the key, the van will only crank and crank and the relay 219 clicks on and off rapidly. But no start. When I moved the towel that was under the ECU and put it on the radiator support it starts up immediately and works perfectly. Odd. It's like it needs to be grounded. The used parts yard ECU will start the van whether it's on the towel or not and then is promptly shut down by the immobilizer, as expected.

Is there an issue with my ECU? Can I just mount it so that it's not isolated from its bracket and is grounded to the body? Or should I just have the tuner swap the immo info over to the used ECU and use it since it doesn't seem to be shorted out to anything?

I was able to pull the SKC from my original ECU/cluster, but I can't get the vagtacho to connect to the used ECU since I don't have the cluster it was paired with. If I use it while it's hooked up to the van it just gives me the same SKC, VIN and IMMO ID from the cluster.

Things left to do before going for a ride:
- recode ECU/immo swap
- install axles
- bleed brakes/ABS pump
- bleed clutch
- wheels and tires
- reinstall interior
- wire PS pump
- AC wiring
- radiator fan circuit
- install shocks (I got the Fox shocks from GoWesty)

Not too bad in the grand scheme of this swap. It will probably take me a day or three of futzing around to put it back together, which it's going to take for the ECU to be sent off and mailed back. Speaking of which, what am I going to have to do about the airbag controller? I have the module from the Passat still, am I going to be able to get the Eurovan controller to speak to/work with the Passat ECU? Or will I have to swap the plug on the Eurovan and put the Passat airbag controller in its place? Can this just be tuned out of the Passat ECU and the Eurovan controller will work and do its thing?

Here is the list of near updates that I want to do once we're on the road and the CELs are dealt with.
- replace brake pads/rotors. Fluid is getting flushed with the brake bleeding above.
- CaveVan rear spacers
- Crank up the torsion bars to level it out
- Poptop canvas tent replacement
- install multirail for Stitches and Steel awning. I'm super pumped about this guy, it looks VERY well made.
- install syncro rear bits to finish the syncro install
- swap the cheapo axles I have with either raxles or with the stock VR6 axles rebuilt with smaller inner joints. I found some from GNK/Loebro on FCPeuro auto parts, so this may be on the short list to do ASAP.
- rubber floor mat for the rear to cover the carpet.
- solar charging system for off grid camping
- bike rack for the rear
- spare tire needs to be changed to match the other four
- get a spare set of steel rims and off road tires.


And future mods:
- Better lighting on both front and rear
- Interior lighting
- Stainless exhaust
- Some sort of raised snorkel like intake that's not in the front fender
- fab a low profile aluminum front bumper with a winch mount and recovery points
- build a rear bumper with a spare tire carrier since the syncro differential will be in the way. I'll probably get a jerry can holder and some sort of bike rack mixed in there as well. Some recovery points in there as well. This may also require some of the LWB transporter truck springs that are heavier.
- 1-2" subframe spacers from HDPE so that the axles aren't at such extreme angles and it will match the CaveVan spacers. I know it doesn't change the travel or the articulation, but it will put the suspension back at its design height and the van should ride and drive better. I'll probably have to space the motor and transmission mounts out as well, but that won't be too bad after this build. The coolant lines and possibly the brake lines will need to be lengthened/adjusted too.


If you're still following along, any input is appreciated!
 
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archemitis

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Location
minnesota
TDI
200 Golf, 1974 Westfalia TDI
Lowering the front subframe is as an awesome idea! I lifted an early 80s Subaru that way. Works great for bigger tires, and keep all your geometry the same. Pretty sure you'll need to extend your steering shaft, and everything else would fit with a 1 inch! Maybe even a 2! WOW my mind is blown. I sure wish I would have lifted my t4 an inch or two when I just did the motor swap. New plan!
Ive never had any ALH ECU grounded and they always work fine. Now... once I touched the ecu case to the positive of the battery cable... That doesnt work at all, let all the yellow smoke out immediately.
Your van is going to be awesome!
 

Josh_WA

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Mountlake Terrace WA
TDI
2014 Jetta TDI, 1993 Eurovan Weekender TDI(AHU) converted 2/2016, 93 Eurovan MV TDI(1z)(sold!)
Please please detail spacing the front subframe. With the later model you may be creating a spacer for the front mounts, but for a 93 or 95, you can now use the hydraulic mounts as opposed to the rubber by doing that. Never thought of that!
 
Last edited:

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Lowering the front subframe is as an awesome idea! I lifted an early 80s Subaru that way. Works great for bigger tires, and keep all your geometry the same. Pretty sure you'll need to extend your steering shaft, and everything else would fit with a 1 inch! Maybe even a 2! WOW my mind is blown. I sure wish I would have lifted my t4 an inch or two when I just did the motor swap. New plan!
Ive never had any ALH ECU grounded and they always work fine. Now... once I touched the ecu case to the positive of the battery cable... That doesnt work at all, let all the yellow smoke out immediately.
Your van is going to be awesome!
I ended up just getting the second ECU tuned through the guys at Cascade German Auto Parts (formerly Bora Parts) in Gresham, OR yesterday and had the immobilizer deleted off of the second ECU. So this should fix the problems I was having with the case needing to be grounded. It was weird. I should take apart the first one and see if I can find the issue.

I was able to get the axles back in yesterday, but not much else since my wife and I were running around trying to plan for our kitchen remodel. I still have to figure out how to mount the intercooler up front, tidy up the wiring and wire in the PS pump, bleed the brakes/clutch and adjust the shift mechanism before the first drive. But things are close. Hopefully that can happen this weekend. Fingers crossed.

The subframe spacer idea is on the list of things to do once we're running, but it's definitely lower down at this point. I don't think it will be too difficult, I was looking at it yesterday while lying under the van and daydreaming. I almost wish I would have done it before getting everything tidied up, but such is life. Maybe we can help the next poor soul that tries to do this :).
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Took it out for the maiden drive last night... Woohoo!!! It's exactly what I was hoping for. I'll definitely need to swap in a taller 5th gear before any long trips, but it went nicely around town. There is a high pitched squeal around 2200+ RPMs that I think is the accessory belt, I'm hoping it isn't an issue with not having enough of a wrap around the AC compressor or the alternator. I'm going to try and adjust things a little, I may need to make a thin shim for one of the pulleys. Not sure yet.

Also, holy crap is this thing heavy without power steering:eek::rolleyes:. I still have to hook up the power steering pump, that's definitely on the short list. Also making sure none of the wires are touching anything warm and getting the speedo to register.

I'm also getting the abs light and a flashing brake light that is likely the ABS controller. This is probably why I can't communicate with it via vagcom. So I've got one ordered from ebay to get us going and I think I'm going to open it up and try the fix I found on PassatWorld since I've not got anything to lose since it's not working at all.

I was able to get the airbag light off and to communicate with the airbag controller. I was poking around VCDS and when recoding for the manual transmission after the ECU tune the popup list was 1 for auto, 2 for ABS, 4 for airbag (Except Eurovan/transporter). So I changed the coding to a 2, I fixed the FIS screen on the dash and got rid of the PRND21 as well as the airbag controller.

I'll keep this list updated as things progress.

Short list of things to do:
- ABS controller repair and/or replace
- Fix speedo issues
- Address belt squeal
- Finish the wiring cleanup.
- Power steering pump
- Reinstall the dash and passenger airbag
- Front bumper and grill refitting
- CaveVan rear spring spacers, and torsion bars
- Once speedo is working check MPG


Near term goals:
- Replace rooftop tent for popup
- Taller 5th gear swap
- fix the fridge/cooler box behind the driver seat
- seat swivel for at least the passenger seat
- MPG for a few tanks >30
- Syncro install
- Stock axle rebuild with 108mm inners vs. the 112mm it has now


Longer term plans:
- taller tires, probably on steel rims
- Rubber floor mat for rear
- Front and rear bumper build for rear mounted spare tire carrier and winch
- Front suspension lift with subframe spacers to keep the axles at stock geometry


Thanks for following along!!
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Reviving this thread as I'm going to start fine tuning things soon. I took a break over last winter and this summer because of work and we decided to renovate out kitchen, all ourselves. It was quite a task. Took the kitchen down to the studs, redid the floor, sheetrock, cabinets, counter tops, wiring, lights, moved the washer and dryer from the kitchen.... it took a few months. During that time the garage was inaccessible due to the kitchen stuff in there. Then, once that was mostly done and we were back to using the kitchen, I decided to replace the old doors in all the hallways and to the bathroom. We still need to redo the trim around the doors and baseboards and repaint/patch the plaster. So much fun being a homeowner.

In the mean time, I decided to build a small bumpout addition on the garage so that I had more room when I get back into working on the van and my other projects. So my 14x24' 1.5 car shop now has a small 5x16' addition to it. It's let me get all my tools and benches up off the floor. I've also been replacing the cabinets with some of the gearwall metal ones from Lowes and I'm still in the middle of organizing everything. I need to run power out to the garage and get it wired up as well, but this winter should be much nicer working on the garage. While doing the addition the siding is also being replaced, I've put 4" of rockwool comfortboard as exterior insulation, replaced the main door with a roll-up door from smartgarage.ca (awesome thing so far), and I'm finishing up all the outside stuff to put up the redwood boards as a rainscreen siding. Found some local 1x10" full thickness for a good deal. Once that's done I still want to paint/insulate the inside, this should give me 7.5" of insulation in the walls, 5.5" in the ceiling for now, when I redo the roof I'm going to use exterior insulation there as well.


Anywho.... Back to the van. I've been busy the past few months and I haven't worked on it as much as I wanted to. I've been having a frustrating limp mode over about 2200 rpms. At first, it was only in 4th/5th. But once I fixed the boost leaks, it was happening in most gears. I still need to log some VAGCOM runs, but my suspicion was it was related to an overboost condition. I lengthened the actuator arm and went for a drive today. It was much better, I could tell there was less power, but I only hit limp mode once on a 25 minute drive. I took it easy and didn't go much over 2500 rpms. I'll be getting some vcds logs and posting them here and connecting with my local Malone tuner who helped me with the ecu to try and get it sorted out. I've already replaced the N75 and I still need to clean up the vacuum tubing.

Over the spring/summer I managed to replace the poptop canvas with a bright yellow from cavevan.com (awesome fit/finish). Over the winter I'm going to be cleaning up the wiring, probably taking the dash apart and I'm not happy with the coolant line routing or the intercooler piping/intercooler mount and that will need to be revisted.

It also appears a Jeep Wrangler has similar track width, and I'm trying to decide if I can use one of the hidden winch mounts bolted to the front frame horns to fit a winch to the front. This would be going along with a custom bumper as well, but that's still down the road.

On the drive today I remembered how much fun it is to drive this thing. It's also great getting the looks pulling up around all the F350s at Lowes/HD and fitting everything in the back. I'll try to keep this more updated over the coming weeks.
 

Filmshoot

Active member
Joined
Jun 16, 2016
Location
NORCAL
TDI
1.9TDI AFN
How many psi of boost are getting? Do you have a boost gauge?
Btw nice choice on Rockwood, I love that stuff.

Also looking forward to seeing your bumper and winch, there are a couple people in Germany that have done these custom bumpers.

...just tapped out with a thumb or 2, please don't mind the abbreviations and grammatical faults.
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
How many psi of boost are getting? Do you have a boost gauge?
Btw nice choice on Rockwood, I love that stuff.

Also looking forward to seeing your bumper and winch, there are a couple people in Germany that have done these custom bumpers.

...just tapped out with a thumb or 2, please don't mind the abbreviations and grammatical faults.
Not sure on the boost, I don't have a boost gauge in yet. That's part of the winter upgrades as well.

The rockwool has been a pleasure to work with and I'm pretty happy with how the outside has come together. When we update the house I think we are going to do the same thing.

I've got an idea of how I want to do the winch plate, we'll see how it actually works out. I need to come up with a better way of mounting the intercooler anyways, so this will also be part of the reason for the front bumper. There's a way to do a front mount that the UK T4 forums guys do, but they don't have the AC condenser up front like I do.
 

ocelotpotpie

Active member
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Location
Seattle
TDI
TDI
Bumping this thread because I came across it again.

How did you handle the passenger side engine mount? Didn't see any linked photos.

Yours is the first later model van I've seen with a later model TDI swap like the one I'm doing. Did you keep the Eurovan body harness and splice in the TDI engine harness? Or replace everything? Or mix and match? I'm almost at the wiring stage on my swap and I'd love any tips to make the process shorter.
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Bumping this thread because I came across it again.

How did you handle the passenger side engine mount? Didn't see any linked photos.

Yours is the first later model van I've seen with a later model TDI swap like the one I'm doing. Did you keep the Eurovan body harness and splice in the TDI engine harness? Or replace everything? Or mix and match? I'm almost at the wiring stage on my swap and I'd love any tips to make the process shorter.
I ended up mocking something up with cardboard and took it to a local fab guy. He plasma cut out some plates and welded them up for me. I marked and drilled the holes once I got it home. It worked out pretty well, but I'm still not completely happy with it. It's definitely something that I'll be working on again this fall.

Man, the wiring was one of the most frustrating parts. My wife frequently came out, watched me pick through things for a few minutes, shook her head and went back inside. I'm not happy with how it is right now. As soon as I get the garage tidied up again the van is going back inside and under the knife. I basically spliced the two together, but not gracefully. I was able to pull out quite a bit from both sides that I didn't need, but I still have quite a bit from the two that is redundant, that I don't think I'll need. I didn't really have a great understanding of how the mk3/Eurovan wiring harnesses worked and how they were built, most of my experience has been with mk4 and newer. After working with it, watching videos, and staring at the wiring diagrams for hours more, I think I'll be able to combine the two better.

I'm not far away (Salem, OR), if you have questions or want to bounce some ideas off of me, let me know. I'll help out as much as I can. There are a couple of really good youtube videos that explain how the wiring diagrams are written and how to decipher them, I think that was the biggest help when I was looking through mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKnTjuSmwaE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMn0i-yHhSA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr0o69-0eik

https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=116222
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
WARNING! Long-winded and dense post ahead...:

Any of my Eurovan TDI converts still out there? Been MIA with COVID, and we decided to replace a leaking tub (that turned into a whole bathroom gut and remodel) over the winter, move in February, fix up the old house and get it sold, so the last few months have been a whirlwind. Lot's of staring at and no working on the van. However, I just found a driveshaft from a short wheelbase van in the UK and it's getting shipped here. This has been a huge part of my build that I've been searching for, so getting it here will help locate both the new T5 transmission as well as the rear differential when I manage to find one that I want.

Plans for now will be to deconstruct what I've got with the 02d (should be for sale if anyone is interested...) and the shift linkage. I need to redo the intake charge air piping as well as the coolant lines anyways, so I'll do all of that fabrication at that time too.

For now I still want to swap the 0a5, as it mates up quite nicely with the BHW. I have an oil pan for the T5, oil pump pickup for the different angles, and the spacer that goes between the block and the gearbox. I've got a Southbend clutch, but the T5 clutch disc is so much thicker, I'm not sure I can use it with the Southbend pressure plate. So I will need to work with Darkside Development and get a proper clutch kit sent to me. Really just the throwout bearing and pressure plate, to make sure it fits correctly. The last thing I want to do is get it all together and then have to take it back apart because the clutch won't disengage.

Turbo wise, I am hoping that by reorienting the engine and moving things around I will be able to use the Passat exhaust manifold and oil drain lines. This would make things remarkably easier. Right now I've got a manifold from an MK3, but it slightly clocks that turbo from the back of the block using the VNT17 from the BHW passat. I fabbed up a spacer plate that bolts to the manifold and reorients the turbo so that it sits right down the block. The issue, is that this puts the turbo quite close to the oil drain fitting on the block, and it is quite a tight turn. If I use the Passat manifold, I might even be able to use the mounting for the passat AC as well, but I'm not sure if there will be enough room. With a slight lower subframe, it may be just the space I need for it. It would also mean I could use stock accessory belts, simplifying things greatly. Though, having all the accessories on the front of the motor makes it much easier access too. More trial and error is ahead.

I found that the inner T5/0a5 CV joints have the same inner teeth as the VR6 axle, and fits in perfectly. I will likely have to cut in a groove to put in the required clips for the axle ends in the T5 inner joints. I will also have to shorten the axles a bit. Once I figure out what I need, I will have to work with Raxles or someone of the sort to make up some new, proper length ones.

Now that I've got a driveline coming, I can make sure everything is lined up properly, and build the new gearbox and engine mounts so they fit appropriately. I've got plenty of wiring to deal with until that shows up.

I've got to get my ABS pump working. It's not getting power for some reason right now, I need to work through the plug with my voltmeter and figure out why. I've likely got a wire that's not hooked up or a relay that is not getting tripped to send power to the ABS block itself.

I still want to try and give myself a little extra room with the subframe, and doing a small spacer/subframe lift would help out loads with placement and clearance with the newer parts. The slightly lower subframe will also help with the front CV angles and hopefully not cause as many busted CV joints that need replacing due to the more extreme angle of lifting the front. It might not be necessary, however, it's still something I'm considering. The hard part with this is that the torsion bars would have to be lowered to match up with the control arms. Not an issue on first glance, but the fuel tank will be in the way for moving anything over 1/2" or so. So not a great option. Again, moving things around with the parts will be helpful when I can get in there. I'd had some thoughts about moving the subframe down, but leaving the torsion bars where they are, but then there's the issue of two rotating beams around two separate fixed points. I've had dreams of linkages or gears that would work to deal with the rotation, but it gets more complicated with every new drawing. Which is not what I want. The easiest thing would be to move the subframe down an inch or two, and just find some coilovers that would be sufficient instead of the torsion bars, and take them out of the picture all together. Plus it would open up such a huge host of other options suspension wise, it might be the best bet.

I'll still have to build/fab a rear carrier for the rear diff when I get it, and figure out the axles for the rear. Hopefully the Eurovan rear CV axles will fit, or be close enough with a T5 diff that I won't have to custom make all of them as well. I've posted some on the UK T4 forums with questions on widths, but if anyone here knows the width of a T4 rear differential, T5 rear diff, and size of the flanges for both, that would be super.

One of the hardest things about this swap is the multiple platforms. The Eurovans are both MK3 and MK4 generation pieces, some T4 specific stuff, I've tossed in some B5.5 parts with the motor and ECU/ABS pump, and now I'm looking at T5 parts too. :rolleyes::rolleyes::eek::eek: It would have been much easier to just get a half cut with a 2.5L TDI and gearbox from the UK or germany, but where is the fun in that? I also like the idea of getting newer parts to swap in. Or we could just get a Sprinter. I've thought about that frequently as well. But I like the VW style better, and there are no manual transmission Sprinters in the US that are available. Plus, who doesn't love a challenge?

There's loads more of thought and research that's gone in during my down time, hopefully some of it actually pans out. :D
 
Last edited:

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Another longwinded post...

Ok, new summer, new me? Hardly, but I suppose I can try.

Since last year I've managed to tear my ACL (Feb 2019), get it repaired (Apr 2019), dad had two massive strokes (same day as my surgery :/ ), I managed to finish the garage addition I was working on, noticed the tub had a crack, redid the entire bathroom (only one in the house, how my wife didn't leave me goD only knows), we found a new house, fixed up the old one and got it sold, moved, had coronavirus hit... any now I suppose we are here. Managed to get the van moved to the new house with only 3 episodes of limp mode (doh!) and only a brief loss of power steering (doh!).



I've managed to secure a driveline on the UK T4 forums and it's getting shipped. And now I have sourced a rear T5 locking diff. From what I can decipher from only looking at parts online, the T4 rear diffs used a 108mm rear CV on the inner, and the T5s seem to use the same. If that's the case, then I'll be able to get some axles made up pretty easily. Just need to shorten the stock ones a bit and they should fit nicely. At least I think, the T5 rear diff looks slightly wider than the T4, I'll know once I get my hands on it. I have a local ish company (Raxles) that can make me axles with stock CVs. I'll just need to get the measurements with the suspension at full compression and droop. I found before that the inner splines of the VR6/01P axles fit into the 0a5 inner CV joints, at least the ones for the 140bhp T5 (and likely the 180bhp). They both have 30 teeth/splines. The lower bhp models seem to have a different tooth count, and I can't say if others will match up. I suppose there's a possibility of the lower bhp ones matching, but I don't have them sitting in front of me so I can't say for sure. From some cursory looking through eBay, there doesn't seem to be anything that matches up.



Which leads me to my next idea. Someone tell me it won't work.



I remember that when I was initially working with the 0a5, and before I had the 02d to work with, I noticed that for the transfer box output to be at the correct level the driveshaft outputs were a bit too low for the T4. I could never get the driveshafts and the transfer box output to line up like I was happy with. So, I decided to scrap it and went with what was easy. The pendulum and left side gearbox mount just bolt on and up. But 5th gear is just too slow for around here, and by replacing the 5th gear with a taller one puts such a big jump in the ratios that makes it tough for the hills and mountains in the PNW. It's doable, and there are a few folks around here that have done it (Justin from Greaseworks, and a few up in WA), but just not ideal for us.



Now back to the 0a5. I'm either going it to bolt the cardan shaft I (will soon) have in place so the 0a5 lines up appropriately, or make a flange that fits against the 02d transfer box and the 0a5 transfer box/drive can bolt up to it. This will allow proper positioning of the gearbox for making engine and transmission mounts. The 0a5 and 02d are slightly different sizes with the 0a5 being slightly larger/beefier. This will probably put the drive flanges a bit too low again, but to fix that I want to lower the subframe with some spacers. Similar to how the Subaru Impreza and Forester guys do a subframe lift using UHMW or HDPE blocks. There are two small hurdles with this. The first is the steering rack and its attachment to the steering gear/column. Which I think can be overcome with spacers to keep it at the stock height, and just lift it up off of the subframe. This will potentially induce some bump steer, so I'll have to evaluate that once I'm able to get the subframe lowered. I might have to lengthen the tie rods if there isn't enough thread to extend them properly. Lot's of fiddly bits involved here, but not the end of the world, I don't think.



The second hurdle is the front suspension. The torsion bars attach at the back of the upper control arm and run back over the top of the fuel tank to the adjustment nuts. Lowering the subframe will put the two bars out of line, and give them two different fixed rotation points. And unless the fuel tank is also lowered, the torsion bars can't really be lowered. There would have to be some complicated lever or gear system to get the control arm and torsion bar to rotate together.... and off my engineering mind goes. Then I realized there is a much easier solution.



Lowering the subframe means that I will need to lower the upper shock mounting point and bump stops as well to keep the stock range of motion. Or, I can get some longer shocks to deal with the increased travel and lower static resting point. Which means that I could get some actual coilovers for the front and just scrap the torsion bars. The upper and lower control arms mount to the subframe, so the control arms and hubs would lower at a similar rate. This would also allow me to align the axles at a more reasonable angle and prevent the severe angles associated with lifting the front of the van. Coilovers are so much more tunable to different loads and some of the Bilstein ones should be just about perfect based on the catalogs when comparing compressed/extended lengths and travel. Only thing to determine will be spring rates, but using stock Bilstein springs/shocks, they would be easily adjustable by just swapping springs. And ride height would now be easily adjustable as well. The torsion bars have always been a frustrating issue for me since you can't adjust the actual spring rate just the height by changing the preload. Plus, having slightly more suspension travel and droop will make off highway driving better since there will be more droop to keep the tires in contact with the ground. And if you wanted to add some sort of front bumper (similar to the Eljot Engineering Bella) or winch you'd be able to adjust for that with either preload or stiffer springs.


I'm sure there's something I'm overlooking and/or overthinking, what do you guys think? It's a fair bit of a project to begin with, so I might as well make it a true cluster and go for broke... Too bad I enjoy most of it. :D
 

Zeitgeist

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Location
Cascadia
TDI
'04 Variant and Vanagon mTDI
I like how your deviant mind works. I've been fantasizing about converting my EV to TDI/Syncro, but the limits of the front suspension design has vexed me. I thought lowering the subframe would help, but I hadn't considered the torsion bar issue. Have you run these ideas past the U.K. T4 guys? Since they actually have real live T5 van donors to play with, I'd think there would be lots of mix n' matching going on over there.
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
I like how your deviant mind works. I've been fantasizing about converting my EV to TDI/Syncro, but the limits of the front suspension design has vexed me. I thought lowering the subframe would help, but I hadn't considered the torsion bar issue. Have you run these ideas past the U.K. T4 guys? Since they actually have real live T5 van donors to play with, I'd think there would be lots of mix n' matching going on over there.
I've got it posted on my build thread there too, havent heard anything just yet. No one bothers to do anything like this over there since they can just buy a newer van. I'm trying to build one with what we've got. Thanks for following along. I'll definitely let you guys know how it goes.

Any thoughts on HDPE vs UHMW-PE for the spacer blocks? I feel like they might be a little more forgiving and robust out of plastic vs metal. Quite a bit easier to machine too. No issues with rust/corrosion. And there shouldn't be a huge UV issue.
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Some new progress and pictures, because who doesn't love pictures?

Got a new lathe, and I've started working on the axle flange adapters. I'm still not sure if I want to do it this way or use the T5 inner CVs and get my axles shortened. I seem to remember that there isn't enough clearance with the T5 inner joints and the T4 subframe, but hey-ho, let's give it a go.

I started with this...





Which turned (punny) into this...



And finally I pressed the two together to get this.





The clearance is good and it fits nicely onto the CV joints



I still need to find someone around town to actually attach them together. Right now there is a 0.0005" (0.0125mm) interference in the fit (roughly), and i used the 12 ton press to fit them. One went a little easier than the other, but they definitely needed the press. There is a local guy that I've used for part fab in the past, and I'm still waiting to hear back from him about welding or brazing them together. There is also a local engine machine shop that will be my second stop if this guy can't do it for me. I think I'll have to get them balanced afterwards as well, somehow. Brazing seems like the way to go so they won't get brittle in the heat affected zone, but I'm not sure if they are fitted/machined appropriately for this.

They are pretty close to concentric, my issue was with the axle flanges. I think they are 0.002-3" off, and there is a very slight wobble at 800rpms on the lathe. I think they were cast based on the appearance of the steel, and the surface was rough enough that it made reading the dial caliper tough. It also looks like they were machined partially after they were cast, likely for some sort of balance during production. Think this will be an issue, or will the engine/transmission mounts, CV joints, and everything else absorb and dampen any vibration from this? My worry would be that it would cause excess stress on bearings and seals leading to problems down the road. Thoughts?
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
The other option if it fits is to use the T5 inner joints since the axles I have are 30 spline on the inboard side and fit nicely into the T5 inners I have.





I'd like to get a little deeper engagement in the star nut, so I'll probably have to grind the stop down and cut the splines a little longer. There will also need to be a groove for the retaining ring/clip. It would be interesting to see how much they will need to be shortened, but this may still be the end result. I think I'll likely have to lower or notch the subframe as well to make sure the CV joints clear laterally. Stay tuned...
 

iwannajettatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Location
Salem, OR
TDI
2015 Brilliant Black Audi Q5 3.0TDI, 2014 Tempest Blue metallic Jetta Sportwagen TDI, 2002 Blue Eurovan Weekender BHW TDI
Well, a year and a half later and.... I'm still working on it. But it's getting closer to driving. Since the last time I've:

- Gone through a few iterations of axle plans, ended up with a combo flange to mate the 0a5 stub inner CV to the EV/01p flange.

- I didnt want to deal with custom axles, so I ended up widening the subframe to fit the 0a5 and use stock EV VR6 axles. I spent a lot of time last summer with this, and went between notching the subframe and adding support to the underside, and trying to lower the steering rack to clear the rear transfer case output. A 2wd box would have been far simpler, but I'm not one to do things the simple way. :rolleyes: I ended up building new upper control arms to clear the tie rods and steering linkage since it was now in the way. I also got to use the lathe to turn some ball joint cups, and make the tie rod spacers at the knuckle to keep the steering geometry as close to stock as possible. The first drive and playing with the possible bump steer will be fun.

- I attempted sleeves on the EV stock front shocks so I could turn them into coilovers, but they didnt work or fit right, and were fouling on the axles. So instead I went searching. A Toyota Tundra has similar front GAWR, and the same size lower bolt, also with plenty of travel for the EV system. I grabbed a set of those and the coil buckets from the pull-a-part, and wham bam, they work. I ended up with a set of lift springs and stock valving to stiffen the front end up with the winch and bumper. I'm still curious to see how she drives with this set up. I may end up getting different springs to adjust, but it cant be more nose divey than the stock setup... can it? At least there is some adjustment built in now vs the torsion bars. The set of Rancho coilovers assembled and delivered was like $250 I think.

- Ended up with lower back space wheels from GoWesty to clear the necessary components.

- I've fabbed the new intake and intercooler hard pipes, made an intercooler hard mount that attaches to the bumper bracket, and will hold the skid plates and underbody protection. More to come here.

- I also wasnt happy with the turbo brackets I had to make to reorient the Passat VNT17, so I was able to get a VNT17/22 that has the turbo oriented perfectly where I need it, has a stock return line, and fits beautifully. It was $600ish, shipped, I think from an S4 or S7? I cant remember now.

- the coolant lines I'd made for the subframe drop idea were able to be modified and are now in place.

- I found the correct starter for the 0a5 and its bolted up and wired. I needed a new connector from an MK6 at the pull-a-part, but that was easy.

- a local shop is extending the high pressure power steering lines for me from the stock pump, the side from the rack to the cooler still fits.

- the high pressure AC lines are still fitting, but I wouldnt mind a few adjustments. I think once its running I'll be taking it by the shop so we can fit some custom hoses. That way everything clears and works appropriately. The low pressure side still needs to be remade.

- I was able to blend the 02d and 0a5 shift mechanism into something that works. The fore/aft control is the same direction, I just simply cut off the end of the 02d rod and welded the 0a5 connector on in its place. The left/right gate selection was backwards. So I ended up making a lever that sits behind the 0a5 pivot point, cutting and welding the 02d arm a little further back for the lever, and now it works great. R->6, easy peasy.

- Wiring. :sick:. :poop:. The wiring has been the single most tedious and frustrating part of all of this. But, I think I've finally gotten it figured out. My speedometer wasn't working with the 02d, I think I was missing the 12v signal down to the sensor, and so it never output anything. Oh well. The 0a5 doesnt have an output like the 02a/b/d/j/m series does, it uses wheel speed sensors at each corner that the EV doesnt have provisions for. I was able to get a sensor and the Tachotronic device that Hasenwerks sells, and it's all wired in now. Pretty stoked about that, and that I'll be able to calibrate if I change tire sizes. Oh. And somehow I managed to splice the speed sensor input to the gauges and the instrument output together. It must have made sense when I did it a few years ago. I now see the error in my ways. It's been corrected.

I found the ABS pump power wire buried in part of the Passat harness that I had flagged, missed, and never plugged in. .......:oops:o_O:censored: and the ground wire right next to it. So that's hooked up now, and the ABS pump should at least have power for communication and trouble shooting.

The AC wiring is sorted, thanks to another post here. Thanks Oilhammer.

I made a new headlight relay wire harness to get battery power straight to the headlights instead of through the switch, and hopefully brighten them up some.

- I found a Warn Zeon 10s winch that made it's way into the ARB bullbar up front, and the controller is mounted to the radiator support up top. Its wired up and has 2g wires to the controller and ground. That'll be fun too.


Things to do so it will start/drive:
- power steering lines
- put the dash back in
- steering column and attaching the column to the rack
- garage alignment. I have a Trammel bar, I'm interested to see how close I can get with the toe. The camber is maxed out (it was with the stock suspension too), and the caster will be my only other real adjustment. Fun. I think the vans are built with a little neutral or positive camber to ensure they steer well. The alignment values say otherwise, but a lot of the folks in the UK forums have that problem with the T4, T5, and T6 vans not getting enough negative camber. I've been looking at making new lower control arms as well so they can be adjustable for length, and more camber as needed. I know this potentially messes up the whole suspension geometry, that's why I havent gotten into it yet. And I do have a slightly more than basic understanding of the mechanics of it. It's a problem for future me to figure out.
- coolant, PS fluid, engine oil, gearbox oil
- bleed brakes and clutch

Things still to do to be road worthy:
- fender flares to cover the extra 2.5-3" of poke. I have some ideas for this already.
- replace front floor with rubber floor from Euro T4.
- rear wheel spacers to match the front
- rear door slider wedge to clear the wires and fender flares.
- sound deaden cab, wheel wells up front, doors, and B pillars.
- replace seats with the MK5 GTI seats I found at the pull-a-part recently.
- Seat swivels
- rear carpet removal for a rubber mat of some kind. There is a local place that might be able to get me a mat big enough to not have a seam in the middle for the rear.
- dry and recharge the AC system
- spool the winch line.
- fix exhaust leak post cat.

Future wants:
- the front sits a little high with the Tundra coilovers, and there was quite a change in height, I'd like to lower the rear control arms an inch or two to compensate.
- Rear T5/6 locking diff. It's on the shelf, just biding it's time. I also have a T4 driveline, and may get a T5 driveline to see if I can marry them together. The T4s use the rubber disc, T5 and newer a CV joint. Anyone know what size the Tiguan 4motion CV joints are on the cardan shafts?
- redesign the interior and rear bench
- build a pull out drawer/kitchen system
- design some front recovery points that bolt to the bumper brackets.
- rear bumper with recovery points and a trailer hitch that's higher clearance.
- rear tire mount on the tailgate, possibly with integrated bike rack. Uprated lift struts.
 
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