Does this look like a 7,000 mile timing belt?

migbro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
Lincoln, Mass.
TDI
2003 Golf GL
My first post here. Just bought a 2003 Golf GL TDI with 103,800 miles on the odometer. The car is an ugly duckling – cloudy headlights, dented hood, dirty interior – but it’s a Southern car with no rust and that’s a big plus here in Massachusetts.

Spent Sunday getting to know the car a bit – poking around, cleaning up under the hood. Cleaned the snow screen, which was 40% blocked – picture below.

Also took a look at the timing belt. The car came with a receipt ($951.45, including $342.50 for a “timing belt kit”) showing that the timing belt and water pump were replaced less than 7,000 miles ago.

Does this look like a 7,000 mile timing belt to you?









 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
It looks like you're about to re-do the entire timing belt job + water pump and related components! Welcome aboard :)
 

Joe_Meehan

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Location
Ohio USA
TDI
NB TDI, 2002.5, Silver
If there is any doubt, you should assume it needs the change. Repairing the possible damage, is far more than replacing the belt. I would do a full TB job, including water pump and tensioner.

Good Luck
 

Luv My 02 TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2002
Location
(Hybla Valley) Alexandria, VA
TDI
Jetta MK5(2010) and MK6(2015)
I would check that receipt and maybe call the installer. My wife's 99 NB belt with over 130k on it looked better than that when it was removed. Was the vehicle a private sale or did you get it from a dealer?
 

migbro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
Lincoln, Mass.
TDI
2003 Golf GL
Luv My 02 TDI said:
I would check that receipt and maybe call the installer.
Well, I'm curious, if I did call the installer as you suggest, what would be the purpose of that call?
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
migbro said:
what would be the purpose of that call?
To determine why the owner was billed $900 and the work not completed ;)
 

TDICADDGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
2012 BMW X5 35D
I spy with my little eye...a mark and pray TB job. See the paint mark on the cam pulley? That means the job was done without the correct tools. I would also bet that not all the parts were replaced, not to mention the fact that they probably reused the stretch bolts.

Re-do. Go see Chris Hill at Kraftwerke in Braintree...he will fix it up right.
 
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migbro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
Lincoln, Mass.
TDI
2003 Golf GL
TDICADDGUY said:
I spy with my little eye...a mark and pray TB job. See the paint mark on the cam pulley?
Oh, yeah! I missed that. And thanks for the Chris Hill suggestion!

I'm a long time shade tree mechanic, so will be doing it myself with the Dieselgeek kit and Metalnerd tools. The question is, should I do it NOW, or can I drive it for a while?

I don't do timing belts very often, the last one was a Toyota Sequoia last year, so I wasn't sure if this is the original TB ($900 sun job) or a poor quality aftermarket TB. The cam pulley paint mark points to the TB being replaced, but shouldn't a 7,000 mile TB be crisp, just like it came out of the bag? Just what do those fuzzy edges mean?
 
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Dieselgeek

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
2016 Golf TDI
The timing belts are cut from a huge drum or tube of material and will often have tiny frayed fibers on their edges due to the toughness of the fibers. They don't cut as cleanly like the old lower mile belts. The belt pictured in the first post doesn't look old or damaged to me and I've handled quite a few belts. Sometimes digital pictures can be misleading though.

Knowing absolutely the procedure that was followed is more an accurate gauge of whether or not to change the belt. If you can verify that the parts were changed you can go back in there and set the cam, crank and pump to top dead center and reset the cam timing as per the "book". A complete, quality set of timing parts that are verified to have only 7000 miles on them would be a waste to throw away.
 
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migbro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
Lincoln, Mass.
TDI
2003 Golf GL
corrado tdi said:
The timing belts are cut from a huge drum or tube of material and will often have tiny frayed fibers on their edges due to the toughness of the fibers. They don't cut as cleanly like the old lower mile belts.
Thanks, Jim, that's very helpful and I've learned something. The last Toyota TB that I installed had sharp, clean edges, so when I saw the fuzz on this belt I may have jumped to the wrong conclusion. I'll probably hedge my bets and do the TB anyway, but maybe not right away.

This is one awesome community. I found TDIClub when I was considering buying this car and the wealth of knowledge here was an important factor in making the decision to buy. I feel like I know this car pretty well just from reading the many posts and how-tos here.

Intercooler, EGR and inlet manifold cleaning next.


 

fase2000TDI

Vendor
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Location
Chesapeake, VA, USA 401-919-0466
TDI
2003 Jettawagon TDI; 2015 GSW 6MT
If you haven't already, change the fuel, oil and air at he same time, that way you have a baseline for you maintenance, and can keep it to a schedule of 4 oil changes for every 2 fuel filters and 1 air.

I have a clean ALH manifold available for trade when you decide to clean yours.

Jeremy
 

belome

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Location
Mid MI
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS TDI 5-speed
fase2000TDI said:
I have a clean ALH manifold available for trade when you decide to clean yours.
How does that work? You simply clean them up and resend them out to the next guy? PM info.
 

Luv My 02 TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2002
Location
(Hybla Valley) Alexandria, VA
TDI
Jetta MK5(2010) and MK6(2015)
migbro said:
Well, I'm curious, if I did call the installer as you suggest, what would be the purpose of that call?
To see if the work was actually done to that car. Your receipt might just be made up or from another vehicle.
 
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migbro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
Lincoln, Mass.
TDI
2003 Golf GL
2nd gear synchro?

OK, I've answered as many questions as I can by searching the FAQs and elsewhere. Here are a few more questions about my "new" TDI:

2nd gear synchro (5 speed manual trans) seems weak. I need to select 2nd deliberately to avoid a crunch, particularly when the transmission is hot. What should I be doing about this? (I haven't changed the gear oil yet).

Brakes are effective but pedal travel is about 2" before brakes bite. Normal?

With the A/C on and the car standing still at idle, I can feel a rhythmic shake. What to do about that?

The car has one pathetic, wimpy single tone horn. Anyone done a horn upgrade?

There is a small hole (1/4" diameter) in the bottom of the air filter box. What's that about?

Anyone have a part number for the double threaded posts used to attach the plastic engine cover?

Thanks!
 

fase2000TDI

Vendor
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Location
Chesapeake, VA, USA 401-919-0466
TDI
2003 Jettawagon TDI; 2015 GSW 6MT
The rhythmic shake sounds normal, unless the engine is stumbling/shuddering.

The stock horns are quite loud. I'd pull a horn from a junkyard or pick one up online.

Replace the manual transmission gear oil. Straight a dealer, it should only run you $25 for two quarts. See if that helps clear it up. I've found on cars that have never had it replaced it starts to get hard getting into gears.

Congrats on the new car. Golf's are pretty darn nice looking :)
 

migbro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
Lincoln, Mass.
TDI
2003 Golf GL
fase2000TDI said:
028103665 is the P/N for the stud
Great! I still have the grommets.

I need one more crappy little part. The black (sheet metal type) screws with integral washer that are used to secure the cabin filter cover and the plastic cover(s?) behind the headlights. Any idea for the P/N on that one? Thanks a bunch for your help!
 

migbro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
Lincoln, Mass.
TDI
2003 Golf GL
fase2000TDI said:
Congrats on the new car. Golf's are pretty darn nice looking
You wouldn't say that if you could see the interior of this car! And you can! See below. :)

Filthy seats and the car is full of dog hair. When I first looked at the car, I thought to myself it would have been nice if the previous owner had cleaned it up a bit before putting it on their friend's service station lot. After picking up the car I realized they HAD cleaned it up to the point where they gave up.

The dog hair is literally woven into the seat fabric and carpet. I had started to pick the hairs out one at a time until I discovered that a lint roller is moderately effective. So I will be lint rolling the entire interior.

I realized that someone had tried to clean the driver's seat when I received chemical burns to the backs of my thighs after driving the car for an hour.

And the icing on the cake - today, in bright sunlight, I suddenly noticed that EVERY window has a nice even coat of dog snot.

I'm now planning to entirely remove the interior, disassemble the seats, soak the covers in Oxy-Clean and replace the seat foam on the front seats.

Looking at Katskinz too - very tempting. Anyone done Katskinz in a 2003 Golf GL TDI?

 
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fase2000TDI

Vendor
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Location
Chesapeake, VA, USA 401-919-0466
TDI
2003 Jettawagon TDI; 2015 GSW 6MT
migbro said:
Great! I still have the grommets.

I need one more crappy little part. The black (sheet metal type) screws with integral washer that are used to secure the cabin filter cover and the plastic cover(s?) behind the headlights. Any idea for the P/N on that one? Thanks a bunch for your help!
Ahh. I can't find them or the diagram for it.
 

coalminer16

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Location
Central Wisconsin
TDI
Golf 2004
Wow, that is a good eye on the pain markings. I will soon be doing my TB job this summer with my brother with Diesel Geeks kit. Tools bought already. Just need the kit and the upgrade for the oil bypass.
 

migbro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
Lincoln, Mass.
TDI
2003 Golf GL
Gear oil change - old oil looked like mud

fase2000TDI said:
Replace the manual transmission gear oil. Straight a dealer, it should only run you $25 for two quarts. See if that helps clear it up. I've found on cars that have never had it replaced it starts to get hard getting into gears.
Changed the gearbox oil today at 104,300 miles. Drained about 1.8 liters and refilled with 2 liters of VW G 060 726 A2 - $10.50/liter from 1stvwparts.



Made a fill funnel by carefully modifying a funnel with a heat gun.



The old oil looked like mud!



The drain and fill plugs were coated with a silty layer of dirt.



I carefully poured the old oil into a gallon jug so I could inspect any debris at the bottom of the drain pan. All I found were tiny bronze flakes, like glitter, nothing larger.



So....is there a vent or breather in the 02J transmission? Dirt is getting into my transmission somehow. If the tranny has a breather, maybe dirt is getting in through that, if not then maybe thermal and pressure cycling is pulling dirt through the output shaft seals.

The good news? My 2nd gear grind has gone! Completely gone! I didn't expect that - thought I was looking at a teardown to replace the 2nd gear shift hub and synchros.
 
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Dieselgeek

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
2016 Golf TDI
The breather on the tranny is at the tip of this person's middle finger in this pic:



The silt is normal.
 

migbro

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
Lincoln, Mass.
TDI
2003 Golf GL
corrado tdi said:
The breather on the tranny is at the tip of this person's middle finger in this pic:
Thanks! Does the dirt get into the tranny through the breather?

corrado tdi said:
The silt is normal.
That's an interesting statement. It's a long time since I owned a vehicle with a manual tranny. The key to longevity in an automatic transmission is absolutely clean fluid. I've installed a Magnefine filter (magnetic filtration) on the automatic trannies of all the vehicles I've owned and the fluid always looks like it just came out of the bottle.

I know that manuals are more tolerant of contaminated oil (no bands, clutch packs, etc.), but how can gear oil that is so dirty be normal? I expected to see clean, transparent oil drain out of the tranny. Instead, what came out looked like mud, saturated with suspended dirt.

Don't know what the gearbox oil change interval should be, but 100,000 miles is too long.

Sent you an order for timing belt kit and tools yesterday, btw. I'll update this thread with an evaluation of my 7,000 mile mark and pray TB job soon.
 
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Dieselgeek

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
2016 Golf TDI
I would say that water might get in the breather cap in small amounts and that probably causes brownish fluid and the silt. I doubt that any significant amount of dirt gets in.

What I mean by normal is that gear oil that has been run for a long time gets pretty nasty looking in many cases. The brown silt left behind on the drain plug is very common from the few hundred gear oil changes I did when servicing cars. You should be pleased to see almost two quarts come out of it. That is good. Now if it was low on gear oil then you would need to check fifth gear for looseness on the shaft(s). You will probably be fine with fresh stuff in there. You might change it again after 1-2K miles since the new stuff might loosen up the sludge that has built up.

To refill an 02A/02J I always use a long auto tranny funnel inserted into the speedo sensor hole on the top of the differential section. Still not really easy.

Thanks for the Tbelt and tools order! I'll personally pack and ship them first thing on Monday.
 
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