Amsoil In this Thread only

Which AMSOIL?


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Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
Yup, you want DEO.

See my CJ-4 thread for more details about CJ-4 5w40 oils.

/EDIT. Oops, I re-read your last post. You want AFL over HDD, even though AFL is inferior to DEO :D.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Location
Chicagoland
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2004 golf
truman said:
I'm uncertain about the significance of the "engine quieter" factor. My '03 is quieter with german Castrol 0-30 and also with Rotella 5-40 than it is with Mobil TDT 5-40. I have also used PC Duron 5-40, but I don't recall the noise level being different with that one. Lab numbers show Mobil to be at the head of the class. I too like the quieter sound, I'm just doubtful that it has any particular meaning, beyond auditory satisfaction.
Agreed x 10! Mobil 1 0w-40 euro car formula is known to be a "noisy" oil on BITOG and from my experience with it, yes, the engine sounds louder, valvetrain noises, etc. (i havent used it on a TDI, though)

There was an article a LONG time ago about oils and acoustical damping properties. Even thought the m1 0w-40 was "noisy" ... it shows good wear and has proven to be a good oil.
 

Thunder1

Well-known member
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Location
Nampa, Idaho
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•2002 VW Beetle TDI GLS, 1.9L, 5-speed AT, Black, ~236K miles. •2013 VW Passat TDI SEL, 2.0L, 6-speed DSG AT, Black, ~52K miles
Bob_Fout said:
Yup, you want DEO.

See my CJ-4 thread for more details about CJ-4 5w40 oils.

/EDIT. Oops, I re-read your last post. You want AFL over HDD, even though AFL is inferior to DEO :D.
Thanks for the response....I never said I wanted AFL over HDD...it was a consideration. FYI, AFL and DEO seem to be a wash for 2003 and older tdis...the oil specs seems very close...I'm not concerned with that comparison. Mainly what I'm curious about is if anyone has seen a mpg increase using the 5W-30 HDD (due to it's viscosity being lower) compared to ANY of the 5W-40 Amsoil oils properly rated for 2003 and older tdis. Thanks.
 
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velociT

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Not Austin, TX
TDI
06 Jetta TDI *sold*
Thunder1 said:
Thanks for the response....AFL and DEO seem to be a wash for 2003 and older tdi's...the oil specs seems very close...I'm not concerned with that comparison. Mainly what I'm curious about is if anyone has seen a mpg increase using the 5W-30 HDD (due to it's viscosity being lower) compared to ANY of the 5W-40 Amsoil oils properly rated for 2003 and older tdis. Thanks.
The added MPG benefit with 30w is countered in many TDI's with oil consumption.

If you decide on the 30w keep an eye on the oil level.
 

Thunder1

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2003
Location
Nampa, Idaho
TDI
•2002 VW Beetle TDI GLS, 1.9L, 5-speed AT, Black, ~236K miles. •2013 VW Passat TDI SEL, 2.0L, 6-speed DSG AT, Black, ~52K miles
Great! Thanks for the response. I generally try to keep a sharp on my oil level so that won't be a problem. Hmm....decisions, decisions. Thanks again :).
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
I highly recommend UOA if you are going to use HDD. IIRC back before DEO, HDD didn't fare to well in terms of wear compared to Delvac 1 (of which DEO is considered on-par with).
 

Thunder1

Well-known member
Joined
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Location
Nampa, Idaho
TDI
•2002 VW Beetle TDI GLS, 1.9L, 5-speed AT, Black, ~236K miles. •2013 VW Passat TDI SEL, 2.0L, 6-speed DSG AT, Black, ~52K miles
I will certainly take everything said here into consideration. Thanks for all the input guys. Have a good day. God bless. :)
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
I'd recommend the 5w-40, Amsoil HD diesel oil(DEO), in all the TDI's except for those with DPF's. The Amsoil 5w-40 European Formula is an excellent product for European gas engines, but it's not their top performer in diesels.

TS
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
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Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Brian,

It's like Groundhog Day, the movie...still debating the same issues with a different cast... LOL

TS
 

LanduytG

Vendor
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Greenfield, IN
TDI
99 NB 82 Westfalia Diesel
TooSlick said:
Brian,

It's like Groundhog Day, the movie...still debating the same issues with a different cast... LOL

TS
TS glad to see you back. Can you believe that after 8 years its the same thing?

Greg
 

HAMMER101

New member
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Location
NE PA
TDI
09 Sportwagon Auto
I have 27000 miles on my 09 Jetta Wagen and run amsoil in everything. I have drove over 250,000 miles on my last 5 cars running amsoil no engine or trans problems what is the best oil for this car when I am out of warranty?

My Demolition Derby Engine is a chey 350 and I run it 45 min without water and the oil holds up and I have over a dozen runs on it I change it every other run.

Ham
 

TornadoRed

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Joined
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West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
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2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
HAMMER101 said:
I have 27000 miles on my 09 Jetta Wagen and run amsoil in everything. I have drove over 250,000 miles on my last 5 cars running amsoil no engine or trans problems what is the best oil for this car when I am out of warranty?
You still have some time to decide on an oil. Amsoil does not make an oil meeting the 507.00 spec, and may not have plans to do so. Perhaps an API CJ-4 oil like Amsoil DEO will work, but you should let others experiment on their cars before you try it in yours.
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
I know that Amsoil is looking at the VW 504.00/507.00 spec & trying to see if it makes economic sense to formulate such a product. That would take at least a year of field testing after the initial bench/lab tests, so it could be a while. In order to make it worthwhile it would probably also have to meet BMW-LL04, MB 229.51 and the latest API spec, as does their current VW505.01 offering.

I suspect the second generation VW505.01/VW502.00 oils would probably be just fine in a 2009 VW diesel, since they are already low "SAPS" products. I'm not sure I'd experiment with a CJ-4 rated, HD diesel oil though, since the sulfated ash & phosphorus levels are significantly higher in those.

TS
 
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TornadoRed

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TooSlick said:
I suspect the second generation VW505.01/VW502.00 oils would probably be just fine in a 2009 VW diesel, since they are already low "SAPS" products. I'm not sure I'd experiment with a CJ-4 oil though, since the Sulfated ash level is significantly higher (1.0% vs 0.6%).
TS
In the real world, how many millions of miles would you have to drive before the difference between 1.0% and 0.6% became apparent? And in the meantime, wouldn't the lubricating qualities of the two oils be more significant? If the CJ-4 oil has a more robust additive package and a higher TBN, wouldn't that more than offset a slightly higher level of sulfated ash? (especially if the oil stays in the crankcase where it belongs -- where it should stay if the engine has been broken-in properly)
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Yes, oil consumption is certainly going to be the critical factor in terms of how much ash ends up in the DPF.

I read an interesting note related to this recently in "Lubes and Greases" magazine, which is an oil industry publication. It seems a number of fleets have stayed with the higher (1.5%) ash, higher TBN, CI-4+ oils in order to maintain long drain intervals. These fleets are still able to achieve 500,000 mile, DPF service intervals - which was the design goal for the low ash, CJ-4 spec.

I do feel that the difference between VW 505.01 and VW 507.00 in terms of ash levels (0.8% vs 0.6%), is probably not significant, since I'd expect lower oil consumption with the thicker, 5w-40 stuff.
 

Dieselfitter

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Location
Edmonton Alberta
TDI
2009 JSW TDI with DSG
Ash content in Synthetic Oil?????

Would a synthetic oil have any chance of having Ash Content?

Are the vw507 oils that vw specs out, full synthetic?

I have had good success with Amsoil European Formula 5-40 in my '02 Jetta TDI in Sub-Zero Construction Parking Lots as far as starting up at quitting time(-25c , -12f).

I recently purchased a 2009 Jetta Sportwagen TDI.

The dipstick is still on the Full Mark at 4000km.
I can not see how 'ash content' can affect the DPF when the oil is staying in the engine crankcase, like it is supposed to!

I would like to have the best engine lubrication that I can get, taking cold weather into consideration.

I question the legalities of vw507 spec. oils for the following reason(s):

It used to be that the owners manual would have a API specification, SJ, SF, etc. You would use what the manufacturer specified under the API guidelines.

Example: My '09 requires ACEA A3 specification for topping up only,according to the Manual. There is no API specification!

What about the major oil companies like Esso, Petro-Canada, Shell etc. None of their products have the vw507 spec.

As I said, I like Amsoil. It exceeds all the competition in the tests, eg. 4 ball wear test, etc.
 

TooSlick

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Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
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Audi 100S
New Amsoil Packaging for 5w-40

Taking into account the larger sump capacities of European diesel/gas vehicles, Amsoil is now bottling their 5w-40, VW 505.01/502.00 synthetic in a "Twin Pack" of two, 5 Liter jugs. Enough for an oil change plus some topoff oil for most VW/Audi four cylinder engines - suggested retail is ~ $45.00 for 5L.
 

TooSlick

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Joined
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Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Yes, this is AFL...the other Amsoil 5w-40 (the CJ-4/SM rated "DEO"), is available in gallons & 2.5 gallon twin packs I believe.
 

dhdenney

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Oct 23, 2005
Location
Kentucky
TDI
2012 Audi A3 TDI Ibis white
Hmm I wish I could find more TDT gallons. I tried the AFL, gave it an honest shot and it didn't perform.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
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Indiana
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2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
You mean it performed like a 505.01 oil :)

You could give DEO a try.
 

TooSlick

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Joined
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Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
I would definitely recommend the DEO over the Amsoil European Oil for the TDI application - especially for the Pumpe Duese engines that have very high pressure, sliding contacts in the valvetrain. The DEO is thicker & the additive chemistry is much more robust than a VW 505.01 oil.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
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Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
It's not VW certified. It is recommended in the VW 505.01 application.

I don't know if anyone has used it in a 2.0L BHW and done UOA.
 

BrentRN

Veteran Member
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Mar 17, 2006
Location
New London, PA USA
TDI
Used to have many. Now a Golf TSI.
Bob_Fout said:
It's not VW certified. It is recommended in the VW 505.01 application.
Thanks. Does the 505.01 designation just mean it meets VW's required specs?

I guess my real question is if the European Car Formula is OK to use with my 2.0L PD?
 

40X40

Experienced
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Location
Kansas City area, MO
TDI
2013 Passat SEL Premium
Dieselfitter said:
<SNIP>

I question the legalities of vw507 spec. oils for the following reason(s):

It used to be that the owners manual would have a API specification, SJ, SF, etc. You would use what the manufacturer specified

<SNIP>

Instead of specifying SJ, SF, etc. the manufacturer specifies VW507.00. I see little difference here, as they are both simply .. 'specifications' ?

Bill
 
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TooSlick

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Dixie
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Audi 100S
BrentRN,

Yes the European Oil (AFL),is the product that Amsoil warrantees for the Pumpe Duese diesel applications. Amsoil is employing the same basic additive chemistry that Motul & Total use in their VW 505.01 offerings.
 

rotarykid

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Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
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1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
BrentRN said:
Bob_Fout said:
It's not VW certified. It is recommended in the VW 505.01 application.
Thanks. Does the 505.01 designation just mean it meets VW's required specs?

I guess my real question is if the European Car Formula is OK to use with my 2.0L PD?
They "Claim" it is but without certification from VW/Audi who knows ........

The VW certification means VW/Audi tested it and it passed their test to get the 505.01 rating . Without submission to & passing of the test given by VW/Audi to get the rating there is no "real" 505.01 rating for the oil . So VW/Audi or who ever that requires the 505.01 or 507 rating is well within their rights to void engine warranty claims if a not certified 505.01 oil is used .

The thing I don't get is when you can get a 5 L bottle of "Tested & Certified" Pentosin Performance II 505.01 or other certified 505.01 oil for ~$36-$40 with shipping & tax why risk it ?????

What does 5 L of Amsoil "claimed" to meet 505.01 really cost , really save ?? The list price I got from a friend that sells the stuff says $7.70 a qt ~ $39.70 for 5 L before taxes . With the 7.85 % taxes that apply here that comes out to ~$42.82 ............. If the stuff could be gotten for say $20 cheaper maybe , but @ the same cost or more why risk it ........I've never understood why Amsoil doesn't just submit for the test certification if they are so sure it is equal to the spec :confused: .:rolleyes:
 

dhdenney

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Location
Kentucky
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2012 Audi A3 TDI Ibis white
TooSlick said:
I would definitely recommend the DEO over the Amsoil European Oil for the TDI application - especially for the Pumpe Duese engines that have very high pressure, sliding contacts in the valvetrain. The DEO is thicker & the additive chemistry is much more robust than a VW 505.01 oil.
Oh I agree, the DEO is probably superb. I just went with TDT for availability. Easier to find than DEO anyway...
 
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