No turbo and low power on the drive home

Gavin312

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2018
Location
South Jordan, Utah
TDI
2002 Jetta
Hello and thanks in advance
Here’s the problem, just after leaving work my car lost power and turbo. I limped it for a little while but then parked and will have it towed home today. Just after stopping it would start fine but still no power and turbo. I left it and went back later to (slowly) drive home but then then it wouldn’t even come close to starting.

Next, I researched possible problems on this forum and found that it could be vacuum lines, turbo actuator etc....... then I can across one thread that discussed a clogged catalytic converter???? Here’s where it gets interesting a few months ago when I bought the car it don’t have a catalytic converter so I replaced it so I could get the car registered. A couple weeks ago a rattle started and I found that it was inside the catalytic converter, it only rattled when the car was cold and I was planning on having it checked and/replaced but here we are.

So, my question is........ is it possible this could be the problem that’s causing my issues? Of course I’m going to check all the lines, hoses, connections etc. but wanted opinions from you all as well? Ideas???????????

Before this happened the car drove and ran great (minus the rattle in the CC) have had no issues and nothing seemed to be wrong.

Again thanks in advance..... this forum is awesome even though this is my first post.

2002 jetta MKIV AlH, all stock with automatic trans. All vacuum lines had been replaced with high quality lines before I bought it.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Can only guess, since you have not asked the ECU what is going on, and you'll need an appropriate scan tool for that task.

Lots of things can cause low power. You assume it is the turbo, but it may not be. Or, if it is, it could be under or over boost. Impossible to know. The ECU will have some clues most likely.
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
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Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
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2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
^^^ 2X
With VCDS you can scan for codes, log a run saving the results, and see what the boost pressure actually is compared to how much is requested.
Check http://www.ross-tech.com/
Might even be as simple as a vacuum hose off.
With a vacuum pump check hos much vacuum is going to the actuator on the turbo.
Also, from the top check if it holds vacuum.
Long run its the best investment.
 

Gavin312

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2018
Location
South Jordan, Utah
TDI
2002 Jetta
Ok, Got me a VCDS and it's awesome i must say! Following up on the above post here's what ive got.
1) the no start was because of a dead battery... replaced that.
2) replaced the N75 before getting the VCDS .... so that's good
3) VCDS test of group 011 shows that the N75 cycles between 0 and 96.9,
the Turbo actual cycles between 846 and 867 and all this is at idle. I think the requested is 903.... so that's not looking good.
4) while the test was running I watched the VNT and could see it move from open to the stop screw without any sticking.... at least from what i could see. Iv'e ordered an new VNT actuator but I'm not sure thats going to be it.

So, the car starts and idles fine...... but I have no boost and/or power. Do i need to run any other tests or is there any other information you guys need to help me figure out what is going on..........

HELP Please!!!!!!!
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
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Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
Did you run a scan for stored codes?

For starters, you probably should run some boost vs. actual tests and plot them now that you have the VCDS. That will tell you if your turbo is working properly. Search the site for what else to plot at the same time.
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
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Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
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2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
What does "no power" mean? Even in limp mode you're going to have power (essentially that resembling no turbo).

"the Turbo actual cycles between 846 and 867 and all this is at idle. I think the requested is 903.... so that's not looking good."

Huh?:confused:
 

Gavin312

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2018
Location
South Jordan, Utah
TDI
2002 Jetta
Oops... yes i scanned for codes and got the following:

17964 =charges pressure-neg deviation
17978 = control mod. locked

how to a run boost v actual test....... sorry very new at this but trying to figure it out :)
 

Gavin312

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2018
Location
South Jordan, Utah
TDI
2002 Jetta
What does "no power" mean? Even in limp mode you're going to have power (essentially that resembling no turbo).

"the Turbo actual cycles between 846 and 867 and all this is at idle. I think the requested is 903.... so that's not looking good."

Huh?:confused:
sorry .....no power meaning the turbo seems to definitely not be working..... the car will drive but slowly with no turbo as far as i can tell.
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
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Location
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2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
OK, 17964 IS related to the turbo.

If it all of a sudden lost power then either a vacuum line gave up the ghost or the turbo did. A turbo going belly up will usually make a sound.

Also check that the boost pipes are connected. If they're not then you should be getting some black smoke out the tail pipe.

If it's the N75 that crapped you can try swapping it with the N18 (if you still have the EGR bits in place). Same valve. Careful about pulling the hoses, the plastic nipples on the valves can be a bit brittle: usually best to slice down the nipples and sacrifice a bit of the hose (make sure you'll have enough to reconnect); some silicone spray might help.

Regarding that other code:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=105291
 

Gavin312

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2018
Location
South Jordan, Utah
TDI
2002 Jetta
OK, 17964 IS related to the turbo.

If it all of a sudden lost power then either a vacuum line gave up the ghost or the turbo did. A turbo going belly up will usually make a sound.

Also check that the boost pipes are connected. If they're not then you should be getting some black smoke out the tail pipe.

If it's the N75 that crapped you can try swapping it with the N18 (if you still have the EGR bits in place). Same valve. Careful about pulling the hoses, the plastic nipples on the valves can be a bit brittle: usually best to slice down the nipples and sacrifice a bit of the hose (make sure you'll have enough to reconnect); some silicone spray might help.

Regarding that other code:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=105291
New N75 just installed..... checked the pipes and they all appear to be in good shape, plus no smoke black or otherwise. when the car went into limp mode or the turbo went out, whichever it was, there was no sound but just lost power.
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
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2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
OK, sorry, missed that you installed a new N75*. As long as you are sure it's all connected up OK then you're going to need to verify vacuum and the actuator. Possible that you got the actuator iced up (this is known to happen).

* New as in brand new? What brand/manufacturer? (regardless, DOAs do/can happen with any component/part).

Generally things like this don't pop up all of a sudden w/o a bang. Sticking turbo vanes, a common occurrence, don't happen all at once; and generally the ECU will be reset out of limp mode by a restart.
 

Gavin312

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2018
Location
South Jordan, Utah
TDI
2002 Jetta
First, thanks for all those who have posted and given advice.........

Ok I just hooked up the mityvac and tested the vacuum on the line for the actuator...... the VNT begins to move at about 3 in.hg and stops at 14 in.hg.

Is the 14 in.hg low? I'm sure everything i've researched is saying it shouldn't hit the stop until 18 in.hg or higher????

Again thanks in advance!!
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
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Out of TDI's
First, thanks for all those who have posted and given advice.........

Ok I just hooked up the mityvac and tested the vacuum on the line for the actuator...... the VNT begins to move at about 3 in.hg and stops at 14 in.hg.

Is the 14 in.hg low? I'm sure everything i've researched is saying it shouldn't hit the stop until 18 in.hg or higher????

Again thanks in advance!!
4" to 18" hg is the recommended vacuum for the span.
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
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Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
Stopping at 14 might not be the problem, though it would be good to work on this. Could be exercising things a bit could help.

Now it would be good to see what kind of vacuum the system is making available.
 

Gavin312

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2018
Location
South Jordan, Utah
TDI
2002 Jetta
Stopping at 14 might not be the problem, though it would be good to work on this. Could be exercising things a bit could help.

Now it would be good to see what kind of vacuum the system is making available.
I removed the top (vac) from the N75 and attached it to my mityvac..... when the cars started it reads 24” hg ...... is that what your talking about?
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
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Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
OK, sounds like you've got ample vacuum.

I'd look to work that actuator, hoping to help free things up.

Still baffling as to what could have cause so sudden of a change.

If you log boost do you see anything? (here's a guide to performance logging)

Do you hear any unusual sounds? Split boost hoses usually aren't visually detectable, splits only opening up under pressure. It's this kind of thing that would tend to match the suddenness and conditions that you're seeing.
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Monroe, NY, USA
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2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
New N75 just installed..... checked the pipes and they all appear to be in good shape, plus no smoke black or otherwise. when the car went into limp mode or the turbo went out, whichever it was, there was no sound but just lost power.
If I understand you correctly the car starts and has power then looses it?
That would be limp mode.
Shutting the car for 5 seconds and re-starting should bring it back.
You other post indicating the turbo arm being full at 14 could be the arm sticking inside the turbo or the actuator full of rust/garbage and not able to move.
VW was a bulletin about them rusting internally.
To take it off is the vacuum hose, 2 nuts and 1 clip.
Shake it to see if rust falls out.
Nest move the arm on the turbo full range to see if it hits the stops.
If not put some effort in it.
Some have indicated working it back & forth for 5 minutes has helped. Did not have to do it on mine that long.
Last, when reassembling it tie a length of sewing thread to the clip and add a nut on the other end to make it easier to find the clip when it fly's. :)
There's a couple in my chassis somewhere.
For the test you did for vacuum on the N75, try teeing the gauge into the line.
You should get slightly less vacuum and it should drop when you take off.
At least mine does.
Second last, I found a crack in my boost tube by spraying soapy water on the tubes and hoses with the car running.
 

Gavin312

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2018
Location
South Jordan, Utah
TDI
2002 Jetta
If I understand you correctly the car starts and has power then looses it?
That would be limp mode.
Shutting the car for 5 seconds and re-starting should bring it back.
You other post indicating the turbo arm being full at 14 could be the arm sticking inside the turbo or the actuator full of rust/garbage and not able to move.
VW was a bulletin about them rusting internally.
To take it off is the vacuum hose, 2 nuts and 1 clip.
Shake it to see if rust falls out.
Nest move the arm on the turbo full range to see if it hits the stops.
If not put some effort in it.
Some have indicated working it back & forth for 5 minutes has helped. Did not have to do it on mine that long.
Last, when reassembling it tie a length of sewing thread to the clip and add a nut on the other end to make it easier to find the clip when it fly's. :)
There's a couple in my chassis somewhere.
For the test you did for vacuum on the N75, try teeing the gauge into the line.
You should get slightly less vacuum and it should drop when you take off.
At least mine does.
Second last, I found a crack in my boost tube by spraying soapy water on the tubes and hoses with the car running.
Hi, thanks for the info....... I was probably not all that clear, but it seems there’s just really low boost and it doesn’t reset when I turn the car off.

VCDS shows some boost at idle and it does rise when I rev the car but it’s constantly lower than what shows as requested. The actuator does cycle when testing, however there’s no change in the engine/turbo sound when it cycles.

Also when I rev the engine (when not testing) the acuator doesn’t move at all..... I believe it should start to move? when the car is started it moves to the stop but doesn’t move at all until the car is shut off when it releases.

Vacuum seems to hold as you can see from my earlier posts

I just received a new acuator and will replace that and I will spray some soapy water on the charge and intake pipes to double check.... other than that could it just be a bad turbo?

I’m so confused ??
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
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Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
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2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
Hi, thanks for the info....... I was probably not all that clear, but it seems there’s just really low boost and it doesn’t reset when I turn the car off.

VCDS shows some boost at idle and it does rise when I rev the car but it’s constantly lower than what shows as requested. The actuator does cycle when testing, however there’s no change in the engine/turbo sound when it cycles.

Also when I rev the engine (when not testing) the acuator doesn’t move at all..... I believe it should start to move? when the car is started it moves to the stop but doesn’t move at all until the car is shut off when it releases.

Vacuum seems to hold as you can see from my earlier posts

I just received a new acuator and will replace that and I will spray some soapy water on the charge and intake pipes to double check.... other than that could it just be a bad turbo?

I’m so confused ??
Please state what data groups you're looking at so that we're sure you're looking at the right things.

In general you're not going to get any boost showing up unless the engine is under a load- at rest you're not going to get meaningful info/data.

If not for the fact that you've stated that this pretty much came on all of a sudden I'd suspect that this problem is due to intake clogging. BUT, we really need to see actual data from logs. Again, Malone's site is the best guide on how to do this: AND, they also have a nifty feature in which you can upload a data file (drag and drop) and generate graphs (you can then grab the generated web page link and pass that along- Malone keeps all this uploaded data).
 

Gavin312

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2018
Location
South Jordan, Utah
TDI
2002 Jetta
Please state what data groups you're looking at so that we're sure you're looking at the right things.

In general you're not going to get any boost showing up unless the engine is under a load- at rest you're not going to get meaningful info/data.

If not for the fact that you've stated that this pretty much came on all of a sudden I'd suspect that this problem is due to intake clogging. BUT, we really need to see actual data from logs. Again, Malone's site is the best guide on how to do this: AND, they also have a nifty feature in which you can upload a data file (drag and drop) and generate graphs (you can then grab the generated web page link and pass that along- Malone keeps all this uploaded data).
Group 11 is what I’m watching..... so I replaced the acuator since I had the new one. Checked the movement on the VNT lever and it didn’t have any problems, it actually moved a lot easier than I thought it would and through the entire range. Also sprayed soapy water on all the intake pipes and hoses... nothing leaking. I’ll run the logs when I get a chance and see what happens.

Same problem...... it just really seems like the turbo isn’t spooling up at all. Otherwise the car runs great lol ?
 

Gavin312

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2018
Location
South Jordan, Utah
TDI
2002 Jetta
Found the problem ....... there was a rattle in my catalytic converter so while I was chasing down the power problem I removed the converter and found that it was broken inside and blocking the exhaust. I cleaned it all up, reinstalled the cat, and the car runs like a champ!!!
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
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Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
WOW! That's great news.
 
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