What car is a better buy... and why?

Fixmy59bug

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SE
I am looking at two different TDI’s and need some opinions on which would be the better buy.

Car #1 - 2002 Jetta TDI automatic. 53k miles. Sat in a field for the last 3 or 4 years. Literally a little old lady car. Minor damage on passenger side. Front bumper needs reattached. Timing belt presumed never replaced. Needs core support, needs suspension bushings replaced, needs turbo cleaned (best case scenario) / replaced (worst case scenario), and all fluids need replaced.

Car #2 - 2005 Passat TDI Automatic. 194k miles. Daily driven and well maintained. I haven’t checked it out yet, but let’s assume it doesn’t need much. Pictures make it look in pretty good condition. Here’s the catch... salvage title. Seller says it is a stolen recovery out of Arizona. AZ does allow insurance to brand cars as salvage if stolen recovery.
 

Fixmy59bug

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SE
daily driver and “visit the parents in California” car.

The 12 mpg wrangler makes it difficult to visit as often as I would like.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Neither sound that appealing. Sat in a field is a big red flag to me, although you're in NV and perhaps the climate there is less harmful than here. Still, moisture is a big enemy. Both are automatics, reducing the benefit of diesel power. And both need bodywork, which is expensive. I'd keep looking.
 

KCTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2002
Location
Kingdom City, Missouri
TDI
2014 Touareg
The '02 Jetta would repair nicely if it's just front end damage. Run the 01M 'til it failed, then swap in a five speed. But if you hafta pay someone else to repair everything it would get high dollar, quick. Finding a MkIV with that low mileage is rare.
My opinion. Worth what it cost :)
 

Fixmy59bug

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SE
Neither sound that appealing. Sat in a field is a big red flag to me, although you're in NV and perhaps the climate there is less harmful than here. Still, moisture is a big enemy. Both are automatics, reducing the benefit of diesel power. And both need bodywork, which is expensive. I'd keep looking.
The nice thing about being in the Las Vegas desert is the climate is VERY friendly to cars that sit around. It is extremely dry here, typically less than 10% humidity. And it doesnt snow here. Although the possibility of field mice is a possibility as evidenced by the underhood liner.

The '02 Jetta would repair nicely if it's just front end damage. Run the 01M 'til it failed, then swap in a five speed. But if you hafta pay someone else to repair everything it would get high dollar, quick. Finding a MkIV with that low mileage is rare.
My opinion. Worth what it cost :)
I can do 98% of the work myself, and being that I work at a dealership I can get parts cheaper than MSRP. The 2% of work that I can't do (turbo cleaning / replacement) I have assistance with from one of my techs. So 75% of the cost of repairing the car is a moot point.

That is a valid concern.

Pics of said Jetta:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=5349028&postcount=26
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I know people like low mileage, but I'd be more comfortable with a car that's been well maintained and didn't sit that had 250K on it than that one. With a manual transmission, too. But that's just my opinion.
 

Fixmy59bug

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SE
Oh believe me... a manual trans is highly preferable to me as well. I ordered my JKU with a manual and dont have any regrets.

Which brings up an interesting question...

When the inevitable happens (the trans goes out) on either vehicle, which is easier to convert? I would think the Jetta as the availability of parts is greater?
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
Oh believe me... a manual trans is highly preferable to me as well. I ordered my JKU with a manual and dont have any regrets.

Which brings up an interesting question...

When the inevitable happens (the trans goes out) on either vehicle, which is easier to convert? I would think the Jetta as the availability of parts is greater?
Jetta is easier to convert. A lot more part availability also.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
I know people like low mileage, but I'd be more comfortable with a car that's been well maintained and didn't sit that had 250K on it than that one. With a manual transmission, too. But that's just my opinion.
.... I'll bite

... yeah my sits a lot:rolleyes:

... but noting what the NADA book values a '15 ride extrapolated to 250,000 miles compared to 6,000 miles

Negative $5,600 for a high miler at retail

Positive $2,025 for the low miles at retail

Will willingly admit my mild concern about premature battery failure & tires that might develop a small amount of un-roundness.

.... and so fasr I have done all the scheduled maintenance
 

KCTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2002
Location
Kingdom City, Missouri
TDI
2014 Touareg
Jetta will be the easiest and cheapest to convert as all parts are available in the US. No manual trans TDI B5.5s were imported into the US. so a TDI trans would hafta come from Europe. The ancillary pieces (axles, clutch pedal/master cyl., shifter, etc.) can be robbed from a manual Audi. The price of a clutch is something to consider also as it takes a good one to hold a tuned 2.0.
 

clacker

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2000
Location
Oxford Mills, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2015 Golf Wagon TDI DSG Trendline, 2000 Jetta TDI auto, 2008 Mercedes R320, 2006 smart fortwo cdi
Jetta all the way. Parts are easily found anywhere, they were common all over. Don't worry too much about the automatic, they are pretty robust once repaired properly (or not abused in the first place). They just use more fuel. Any used car purchase is going to need fluids done, bushings, brakes and such just part of car ownership (most I have bought needed work even with recent work, it was not done right). Simple jobs that are well documented on how to do it on the forums (turbo, bushings etc). A car that is worthy of fixing if not rusty or too beat up, a couple grand and you will have something that lasts A LONG TIME.
The Passat has many potential high dollar fixes, balance shaft issues, turbo issues, transmission issues (torque converter is a weak point and other possibilities). They are not easily found when parts are needed (diesel specific). Injector and camshaft wear are known and expensive to fix. All of them have failures, usually 200k it starts-the transmission, the turbo, then the balance shaft stuff followed by cam and injectors. None of them escaped these repairs, it was weak points that the ALH engine was not prone to.
 

tdidieselbobny

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
Stafford,NY (WNY)
TDI
'03 Galactic Blue Jetta TDI, '15 Silk Blue Golf Sportwagen TDI
How's the maintenance on the Passat? Has the balance shaft been done? I also notice that the automatics seem to be problematic in the Passats also.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
I am looking at two different TDI’s and need some opinions on which would be the better buy.

Car #1 - 2002 Jetta TDI automatic. 53k miles. Sat in a field for the last 3 or 4 years. Literally a little old lady car. Minor damage on passenger side. Front bumper needs reattached.

Timing belt presumed never replaced. Needs core support, needs suspension bushings replaced, needs turbo cleaned (best case scenario) / replaced (worst case scenario), and all fluids need replaced.

Car #2 - 2005 Passat TDI Automatic. 194k miles. Daily driven and well maintained. I haven’t checked it out yet, but let’s assume it doesn’t need much. Pictures make it look in pretty good condition. Here’s the catch... salvage title. Seller says it is a stolen recovery out of Arizona. AZ does allow insurance to brand cars as salvage if stolen recovery.
In addition to rodent issues in a field, water, and sun harm.

BTW. sitting in a field is not the "only" mouse chewers exposure. Our cars ARE garaged.

..... and we live in an area with a lot of openness behind our house. every 3-4 years (winter) the little Okie mice will visit our garage. We prophylacticly have PIZZEN ready for fresh invaders.

So far so good. :p
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
I recently tried two of these in my garage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SIlYiiCGLI

Sealing everything up and removing any food sources helps as well.

Thanks for sharing the walk the plank mouse video:D:eek::p:mad:

Personally have a strong hate for these disease carriers. 'bout a decade ago we had 2-3 get into the house.

..... as far as the food sources are concerned it's when the lil monsters turn to our car wires.
 

john.jackson9213

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Location
Miramar, Ca. (Think Top Gun)
TDI
1996 B4V
Here is my take:. Just pay the extra fuel cost with the Jeep. Figure $3/gallon for each fuel. Assume 600 miles round-trip. Assume 12 mpg for Wrangler and 36 mpg for VW.
Wrangler trip costs $50:. VW trip cost $16.67:

Assume $2400 cost for commuter VW.

Savings in fuel comes AFTER 75 trips, Assume no further costs for old VW..

Now, if you just want to play with an old VW diesel- that's fine. But to save money?? No real way. Fine if you want to offset some of your car toy expenses.
 

Fixmy59bug

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SE
Round trips to Cali are closer to $120. $60 fill up to get down there, $60 fill up to get home where as the Jetta would would be a $40 round trip.

But I'm not doing it JUST for trips to So Cal. But when I do drive to So Cal, my parents have great difficulty climbing into my Jeep. So regardless, I have to buy another car. So I'm not buying the car strictly to save money. I am just looking for the most economical car to buy that I can be happy with. And another TDI fits the bill nicely.

I want something more economical for every day driving. I kinda miss my Vw's. I kinda miss my diesels.
 

loudspl

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2005
Location
Osakis, Minnesota
TDI
02 ASV w/ 02J
Jetta hands down.

A MKIV ALH is like the Chevy 350. Parts are abundant and won't break the bank to get it running right. It can be made to be nice again and there is a good network of TDI mechanics to help you out if you need it :)
 

Fixmy59bug

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SE
I think I am sold on the Jetta... Just gotta see if the lady will sell it cheap enough.

There is a local guy parting out an 02 gasser that appears to be in good shape. So I texted him and he said I could have the front bumper, core support, hood, and fender (all parts to fix the front end) for $250. That will get the body back to 98% really good condition.

Will still need to do a complete refresh (ALL fluids and filters, timing belt, all vacuum lines, and suspension bushings) and a turbo (hopefully just a cleaning).

I really do believe this car could live a long life.
 

PlaneCrazy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
We had a '05 Passat TDI. Ran it up to 297k km in 13 years (bought new in Oct. '04). Gave the car to our son in 2013, and he drove it for another 4 years then the transmission gave out; a cooler line corroded through and it peed out all of its fluid in the middle of nowhere in New Brunswick. As the car was severely rusted do to a poor accident repair that the VW rust warranty wouldn't cover, the repair cost greatly exceeded the value of the car. Given the age and mileage, my son sold it for scrap on the spot. Now he drives an '03 Mk IV Jetta wagon with the 2.slow, manual.

Getting back to the Passat, the torque converter is an issue. Some folks have done 5 and 6-speed conversions on them (5-speed is cheaper and less problematic apparently), but that's costly for such an old car.

And if the balance shaft hasn't been done (either a geared conversion, or better, a balance shaft delete), then RUN, don't walk, away. It's a time bomb and when the chain lets go, you lose all oil pressure. They also have a very expensive front suspension to repair, and eat CV joints like cornflakes. Good car in its heyday, but I'd be inclined to go Jetta, but looking at the pics, I think I'd pass. You can put a lot of fuel in that Jeep for what either of these cars will cost you to buy and put back into running order, plus fix the inevitable old car problems that will crop up.

When my son went shopping for a Jetta wagon, he passed on TDIs. The ones he found were all either double the price of a 2.0 gas, or had double the mileage. He found a pretty good 2.0 gasser for only $1900 (2003) and so far has only had to do brake pads, a tie rod end, and a starter. A 2.0 won't get nearly the mileage of a TDI, but it won't be as hard on gas as your Jeep. They're cheap, plentiful, and the 2.0 is basically bullet-proof.
 
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PlaneCrazy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
Except for the AEG (used from 99 - 2001) which drinks oil like a fish drinks water.
Same issue with the B6 Passat wagon I had, 2.0T. Great car and engine otherwise, but needed a quart every 4000 km when new, down to 1 every 2000 km at 160k km (100k miles). I think it was a new VW undocumented feature: self-changing oil. :D
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Except for the AEG (used from 99 - 2001) which drinks oil like a fish drinks water.
Except for fish don't really drink water. ;)

"Only saltwater fish drink. In freshwater, the inside of the fish is "saltier" than the surrounding environment. Water moves into the fish by osmosis, passively, through the gills and the skin and the stomach. Fish have to eliminate all this excess water by peeing dilute urine."

https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,,-10999,00.html
 

idlandk

Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2013
Location
Alberta
TDI
03 Jetta tdi
Don't forget that you own an asset after buying the jetta. At $2400 you're unlikely to lose money selling it. In other words, fuel savings start immediately. You are maintaining two vehicles at that point though.
 

luke.weiser

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Location
Portland, Maine
TDI
1998 Jetta MK3
Get the jetta. nuf said.
Passats are like a Chrysler: over engineered and 'Luxury cheap", Made for a Richie that can afford to repair them constantly.
Jettas are made for the everyday working man. They are quality, and is well worth fixing up.
 
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