From AGR 018 ecu to AGR 012

FRtdilover · Apr 14, 2016

From AGR msa15 ecu to EDC15VM+

Hi,
I have a spare 038 906 012 B ecu in my garage, from audi a3 90hp AGR, could someone tell me some about this ecu?
I mean, I've a golf mk4 (99) , 90hp AGR, with 038 906 018 BL ecu, as everybody knows, 018 aren't flashable by obd, no cruise light etc...
I want to know some stuff about the possibility to directly swap the 012 B instead of 018 BL (of course connector swap and wiring the 121pins instead of 80pins)
The truth is that I've red lot of stuffs in the forum (so many great infos in this forum!) but I don't know what does the last letter means (018 BL vs 012 B).
Then, the 012 B was from an audi a3, I hope there isn't any problems to swap into my golf.. (same engine by the way)
I'll search deeper in the forum to find the correct and complete wiring to swap à 80pins 018 to 121pins 012, but if somebody have the wiring I'll thank him a lot

Are all the 80 and 121pins ' cables the same (same color, same locations, juste need to swap pins into the new plugs) or I have to run wires to some others elements of the car ? I mean, just a swap of ecu/plug or also a complete wiring ?
Thanks in advance, I'll continue my research

mk1-83 · Apr 14, 2016

Im Busy to do a swap also im make a conector so i hold mine wireloom original

FRtdilover · Apr 14, 2016

Hey,

And you have the pinout or something to make a connector ? if it's possible to keed the original wireloom i'm going to do that

FRtdilover · Apr 15, 2016

Somebody has posted that in an other thread
Is that correct ?

MSA15 pin => EDC15VM+ pin
1 => 4
2 => 2
3 => 81
4 => 49 "add" ????
6 => 27
8 => 63
9 => 65
10 => 44
11 => 12
12 => 70
13 => 73
15 => 62
16 => 29
17 => 21
18 => 28
19 => 14
20 => 32
21 => 45
22 => 38
23 => 50
24 => 69
25 => 52
27 => 5
28 => 1
29 => 61
31 => 11
33 => 18
34 => 22
35 => 46
39 => 31
40 => 71
41 => 40
42 => 42
45 => 16
46 => 66
47 => 37
48 => 34
50 => 30
51 => 20
52 => 68
53 => 111
54 => 112
55 => 101
56 => 108
57 => 106
59 => 121
62 => 109
64 => 99
66 => 121
67 => 102
68 => 7
69 => 110
70 => 104
71 => 86
75 => 6
76 => 103
77 => 120
79 => 114
80 => 116
Add =>47 hazard switch (8/AB) green/purple ????
Add =>53 intake temp (pin 1) brown/blue ???
Add =>80 (T10/7) purple/yellow ???
Add =>33 (T10e/8) green add ???
Add =>51 gas pedal (pin 6) green/red ???
Add =>88 +12v X (S10/5) black/green ???

What are the new cables to wire ?

I got that from audi a3 to help me to swap the 012 edc15vm+ in my 99 golf (018 msa)

FRtdilover · Apr 19, 2016

BUMP!

Somebody knows important things about the 7 cables I'll need to add ?

tigre93 said:
hi friends, i make the swap, car start but only stays on 1200rpm.

i need to make this conections:

51 gas pedal (pin 6) green/red add
53 intake temp (pin 1) brown/blue add
49 air mass flow (pin 3) purple/green add
33 (T10e/8) green add
80 (T10/7) purple/yellow add
47 hazard switch (8/AB) green/purple add
88 +12v X (S10/5) black/green add

where i get this wires?

regards

DJGonzo said:
MAF sensor isn't wired in yet. At least the one that I have to add in below:

Can anyone tell me where these wires go (highlighted):

Also where is the intake temperature sensor?

By tomorrow, my car will RUN! No and's, if's or but's.

I'll strip out the loom I've posted in the previous pic, and make an adapter connector with an old 018 (msa) ecu. I hope to don't have any troubles with this swap.

mk1-83 · Apr 19, 2016

Nice to see progress im working to fix engine so no time jet to do same

FRtdilover · Apr 20, 2016

mk1-83 said:
Nice to see progress im working to fix engine so no time jet to do same

Oops you broke something? :/

Anyway, yeah I'm progressing a little bit, I have the bentley of my car, with the T80 ecu diagram, and a friend in a french forum sent me the diagrams of the bentley of the same car but with the T121 ecu , so I studied all the night and I now can confirm some info:

the major difference between t80 and t121 diagrams is the wiring of the gas pedal, the maf sensor and map/inlet temperature (g71/72). Maybe the coolant temp sensor to replace for the new version (green top, round connection).

Actually with the t80 ecu, the gas pedal, maf sensor and g71/72 have all their "ground" in common going to only one pin of the ecu (pin T80/25)... while the gas pedal, maf sensor and g71/72 of the T121 ecu have all their grounds going to 3 separated pins of the ecu (T121/51 gas pedal, T121/49 maf, T121/52 g71/72)

So from what i've understood we have to re-wire that (only two câbles...) and it will be good for that... But it's just 3 or 4 wires of the 7 "new cables" to wire...
so what about the last ones?

T121/53 => intake temp (pin 1) brown/blue ?? I didn't find the pin in the bentley diagrams ????
T121/80 => (T10/7) purple/yellow ?? I didn't find the pin in the bentley diagrams ????
T121/33 => (T10e/8) green ?? I didn't find the pin in the bentley diagrams ????
T121/47 => hazard switch (8/AB) green/purple to add to the white plug in the rain tray, T10w/9
T121/51 => gas pedal (pin 6) green/red ADD: Pull a wire from T121/51 to pedal T6/6 et remove the old cable (it was the old "common ground")
T121/88 +12v X (S10/5) black/green add : to fuse S10 (5a), it's not wired yet, we have to pin it and add it
T121/49 air mass flow (pin 3) purple/green : add, find out the +12v black/yellow wire (from fuse 34, s234) it should be connected to T5/2 ! Then pull a wire from T121/49 to T5/3

So as you can see, pins t121/33, 53 and 80 are the big question of the moment, bcause I can't find them in the bentley, so what is the thing to understand ? we don't have to connect it and it should run perfectly without 'em ?

I'm still studying diagrams and wire loom for this moment, when I'll have more time I'll begin to make an adapter to test the ecu in P&P mode

If it's okay and run fine I'll replace the connector and re-wire it as doing in the factory, properly with wireloom tape etc..

mk1-83 · Apr 21, 2016

mine mate have Etka home and at work

FRtdilover · May 21, 2016

Hello guys !

Some news.. I've learned a lot from the manual (Bentley), diagrams of my car VE 1999 (ecu 018, T80) , VE 2000 (ecu 012, T121) AND pd (ecu 019, T121), and now I can say: It's the same work, just swapping ecu OR replace the entire VE for a PD, it's the same job!
So I've bought a ASZ pd 130 in great working condition, with the engine loom, and ALL will be plug and play ! Just a T10a (behind the airbox) to replace with a T14a, with oil level sensor and so on..
Just put and wire the intank lift pump with OE wiring and it will be good!

Just for the ecu/cluster compatibility (IMMO2/IMMO3) , either I use it with immo off (don't like this option) , or I search on the web how to fit it with VCDS...

So yes sorry, I leave the VE engine to put a PD, but I've done that bcause the 130/150 is stronger, beefier, has bigger rod' big end, pistons with oil cooling channel, etc... and I found this engine for a good price. So lets put some ARP stud everywhere, gtb2260vk, etc.. and remap!

First pic the half engine loom (sorry, written in french)
Last pic the conversion T10 => T14

T10 from old engine loom:

to replace with the T14:

FRtdilover · Sep 14, 2017

Hi,
Sorry it's been a while, I was busy.
The last 3 days I've done the conversion, from old AGR (ALH) to newer ASZ 130.

tank pump, wired as oem and fully functionnal

And my new cluster with the needle sweep function

Some work here, but not as difficult, even the wiring part.

The main wiring job is to convert the T10 behind the airbox to the T14 the 012/019 ecu use ; add a +12v in the fuse box and wire the intank pump with the oem relay.

Be careful, some parts have to be replaced as AC hoses, steering hose, etc..

k_pt · Oct 13, 2017

I've seen you done a swap just like im doing, also on a Golf IV.

Everything is mounted, engine and all that is around, the problem now is the wiring.

my ecu is a VE 1999 (ecu 018, T80) and Im swaping for an ARL TDI pd (ecu 019, T121)

I'm already know I have to use the wiring loom, both loom that comes out of the 2 connectors of the ecu. My question is, do I have to swap also the interior wiring, the one that gets inside the cockpit? the one that goes to the cluster, fuse, acelerator pedal etc?

Do I have to change wiring also after the connectors shown here at the left side that goes to the inside of the car?

https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/...Rmj/s-l225.jpg

k_pt · Oct 13, 2017

Done the conversion.

Only left T14/10, do I have to bring that cable to t121/88? Is that correct?
Whats the purpose?

by the way, the plug that comes from the 2 big red/white gauge get connected to anywhere? I think they got to the glow plugs.

http://www.golfiv.fr/uploads/uploads/th1/2016/05/21/2016_05_21_13_23_11_IMG_20160521_104757.jpg

FRtdilover · Oct 14, 2017

Hi,

You have to convert the t10 plug to t14, means that you have to cut wires from the t10 to wire it in the t14.

The t121/88 is included in the ecu loom, it comes from t121/88 going to t14/10, then you have to wire it to the fuse box inside the car. fuse 10, 5amp, the place should be empty, you have to add the new one.

For the big red cables, it's for the gow plugs and it's p&p, just disconnect the plug from your old engine loom and connect the new one, which is the same.

After that it should start and run correctly.
If you have an issue with the alternator, VCDS: "17911 - Load signal from Alternator Term. DF: Range/Performance / Implausible Signal"
just let me know, I had to correct a wire that isn't indicted in the bentley. But this issue just switch on the esp light 10min after engine start, that's all, not big issue. Alternator still works.

With VCDS you'll also probably see an issue with the canbus communication between ecu and airbag calculator, it's normal, it's not the same generation between old AGR 99 and new ASZ 2003. We should replace it for the good one, but I haven't done it yet.

nb: exept the wire from t14/10 to connect to the fuse box inside the car, you won't have to pull wires from the engine bay to the car interior.
yes I've replaced the throttle pedal for the asz130 one, but I think it should works with your old one (not 100% sure)

k_pt · Oct 14, 2017

big thanks for your reply

I ended up wiring everything except the 2 big red cables, but the wiring from the edc15p ARL was all plugged, so ... i'll give it a try

did you find any problem plugging the wiring from the ecu to the coloured plugs at the entrance of the cockpit?

the pic above is not from my car, just to show the location of the plugs

i found a white plug from ARL and no white plug on my car

by the way, the obd port worked fine for the immo off?

FRtdilover · Oct 14, 2017

the male white one from ASZ/ARL is the female green one in the 99 loom

just modify a little bit the "keyed" connector, then it plugs ! same cables location.

k_pt · Oct 14, 2017

FRtdilover said:
the male white one from ASZ/ARL is the female green one in the 99 loom just modify a little bit the "keyed" connector, then it plugs ! same cables location.

Ok, thats great news, just what I did yesterday, it seemed the same comparing to the old loom.

So the only wiring missing is the 88 pin to the fuse box.

Monday will be the "first start" day after reviewing all the wiring and the 88pin.

Will post the news. Great help here on this topic.

FRtdilover · Oct 15, 2017

good luck and keep up posted

k_pt · Oct 16, 2017

FRtdilover said:
good luck and keep up posted

ok, all wired up, had no fuse but i figured out it comes from the ignition key plug, made the connection with a 5amp fuse in the middle.

At the moment is not starting, it cranks but it can read the ecu 01-engine by vcds, can read the injectors, no error reading, but always 0.00

p1570 - engine start blocked by immobilizer. I was hoping it would start and die immediately, but no ... the pump is primed, dont have the auxiliar pump yet.

so it seems, to finish the job, i just need to immo off

FRtdilover · Oct 16, 2017

The first code seems to be "normal", I have the same code but all works correctly. I don't figure out yet what is the issue.

The second fault code is normal if you keep your old cluster, I have an IMMO3 mfa cluster and I never had this fault code.

The third fault code is because of the old airbag ecu, I have the same code and I need to study the diagrams to solve that.

For the last two codes, you have to wire the intank pump as oem diagram, and run immo off.

I still run immo off till I figue out how I can synchronise the cluster with the ecu, keys, key transponders, etc

k_pt · Oct 16, 2017

FRtdilover said:
The first code seems to be "normal", I have the same code but all works correctly. I don't figure out yet what is the issue.

The second fault code is normal if you keep your old cluster, I have an IMMO3 mfa cluster and I never had this fault code.

The third fault code is because of the old airbag ecu, I have the same code and I need to study the diagrams to solve that.

For the last two codes, you have to wire the intank pump as oem diagram, and run immo off.

I still run immo off till I figue out how I can synchronise the cluster with the ecu, keys, key transponders, etc

it should start even without the intank, right? i poured diesel right in the house from the fuel filter, i can the fuel getting sucked, but it doesnt start.

So I suspected its the immo.

Had the Tacho today but cant immo off, tomorrow I'll have Commander.

also didnt connect t121/37 since its "facultatic"

by the way, the coolant fan probably is not connected to the fuse box above the battery.

another question, did u got 12v from relay 109 to power the aux tank?

FRtdilover · Oct 17, 2017

Yes, first gen tdi 115 AJM were running without intank pump, it was the tandem pump that pulled diesel from the tank

With commender you should be able to run immo off

Look the diagram of t10 / t14 conversion in the last page, the t121/37 IS connected as far as it was wired in the old t10

For the intank pump Ive wired it as oem, with oem relay, oem diagram, and I don't remember Ive had to do something with the 109 relay.

k_pt · Oct 17, 2017

can the t121 37 be not connected

FRtdilover · Oct 17, 2017

I dont know, mine was connected in the old T10, so I wired it

k_pt · Oct 17, 2017

Still no luck. Cranks but doesnt start.

Immo is solved out, error doesnt appear anymore.

One thing I notice is when I attemp to start the rpms dont raise up, and when i connect the 6 from t10 to t14 I get speed engine sensor error.

FRtdilover · Oct 17, 2017

The 6 from t10/t14 is either for VE pump, either for PD camshaft sensor. Its a 12v, the information goes through an other cable already wired in the engine loom to the ecu (T121/101).

Engine speed is known thanks to the crankshaft sensor, and if is not connected, the camshaft sensor can get the engine speed info

You sure fuel line is primed ? I had to keep trying starting during 3 x 40sec untill it started

k_pt · Oct 20, 2017

Just like Anakin said "Its working, its working!"

fitted the lift pump, gave 12v with a booster, it starts and runs solid, no maf and vaccum fitted yet, runs ok

does the lift pump need constant 12v on PD?

Where did you got the 12v for the lift pump?

can i use 12v from relay 109, from the ve pump?

k_pt · Oct 21, 2017

Ok, by the ARL wiring this is how I energize my lift pump.

I dont think I have relay 409 on my panel, so I have to get one, wiring 12v from relay 109, which I have on mine and plug pin 80 to make ground and run the relay, so the lift pump gets 12V

Any easy way to get wiring to pin 80?

edit: got, from T10w/7 (white plug) ... ok, I think I'll have it wired tomorrow.

FRtdilover · Oct 23, 2017

Congrat!

Look at the Bentley

Simplified (or not ^^)

Asierquattrob7 · Feb 7, 2024

FRtdilover said:
¡Felicidades!

mira el bentley

Simplificado (o no ^^)

[/CITA]
hola, estoy haciendo un cambio de motor de asv, año 2002 por un motor asz, no encontré el diagrama OEM de la bomba de gasoil, también tengo un problema con el sensor de presión atmosférica MAP.
e puesto los 2 cableados de motor de asz, mi asv tenia el t14 OEM, y el conector blanco que se dirige hacia el interior del vehículo OEM, no e tenido que modificar nada, tengo que añadir algun cable? o tengo que modificar algo del cableado del sensor de presion atmosférica?

Asierquattrob7 · Feb 7, 2024

Hola, estoy haciendo un cambio de motor de asv, año 2002 por un motor asz, no encontré el diagrama OEM de la bomba de gasoil, también tengo un problema con el sensor de presión atmosférica MAP.

e puesto los 2 cableados de motor de asz, mi asv tenia el t14 OEM, y el conector blanco que se dirige hacia el interior del vehículo OEM, no e tenido que modificar nada, tengo que añadir algún cable? ¿O tengo que modificar algo del cableado del sensor de presión atmosférica?

From AGR 018 ecu to AGR 012

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